OFFICIAL 11/9/11 ECONOMICS DEBATE FROM MICHIGAN THREAD

[anewvoice]

Hey folks, just got back from the Ron Paul rally, awesome experience! I got to shake hands with Ron Paul and he signed my Revolution book! WOOO! Both the Red Ox and the Buddy's pizza were PACKED wall to wall, was awesome!

 

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

Not shocked, but saddened.

CNBC, if it had been Romney supporters that decided to be ACTIVE and support their candidate online, you would have trumpeted the results from the mountaintops. Seeing as though most of Cain's, Romney's, Perry's, and the other's supporters are octogenarians who could not discern a computer from a garden hose - and therefore, have little to no online presence - you ignore the voice of those who use computers.

I like to think my skin has gotten pretty thick as of late, but this is hard to take. This is even worse than what fuckhead O'Reilly did the other day - and even more shortsighted. Enjoy your growing irrelevance, CNBC, and your parent company, GE. Rest assured that we are growing in number, and we will own YOU before this is all over.

You all can have the thread back now.

/rant

 

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

Hey folks, just got back from the Ron Paul rally, awesome experience! I got to shake hands with Ron Paul and he signed my Revolution book! WOOO! Both the Red Ox and the Buddy's pizza were PACKED wall to wall, was awesome!

Good for you. Lots of us would like to have been in your shoes.

 

[Join The Paul Side]

Let's all conduct an experiment:

Maybe just once, for the hell of it, after the next debate, we vote the online poll not for Ron, but for Romney or Huntsman or Frothy or whoever .... Pick a candidate and overload the results...... Just to see if they claim their poll was gamed.

 

[anewvoice]

Good for you. Lots of us would like to have been in your shoes.

There were so many people there, it was intense. Ron Paul spoke to everyone, and was heading out to hop on a plane for New Hampshire to begin again. Make sure to show him your support on 11-11!

 

[D.A.S.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUA2rDVrmNg&feature=share

this is going viral.

791 likes

Whoa that video is on fire! Around 2,000 likes now!

 

[Harry96]

We just watched Perry collapse in front of our eyes. It is extremely rare to be able to watch something like that.

It may be that Cain's meeting with Kissinger worked out well for Cain, and the people who were backing Perry were satisfied with Cains answers, and Perry no longer was necessary. They were worried about Cain (very possibly they weren't paying attention to him closely, they hadn't vetted him), Kissinger asked the Bilderberg questions, Cain answered acceptably, and Cain becomes an acceptable candidate to the globalists. Perry out, Cain in.

I can't see how Perry can recover from that debate. But I don't know about a Cain implosion. What has happened with the sex stuff is that a ceiling has been placed on Cains support. Unless the sex stuff resolves itself 100% for Cain, with no ambiguity, there will be a significant number of people who will say "yeah, I get that he was smeared unfairly, but he is damaged goods now, and we want to win." We can get those people.

If "newt's people" and "cain's people" can start attacking each other, that's a good result.

Newt actually has a pretty impressive resume, and some stuff on it people did like. Speaker of the House. Contract With America.

Your analysis of Cain is excellent.

Joel Skousen thinks that the elite don't want Romney for whatever reason, probably because they have doubts about how easily they can control him, both because he already has too much money, and because he doesn't seem to have any significant skeletons in his closet, which indicates that he may not be that corruptible, and that they have little to blackmail him with to help keep him in line. (He's a statist, and I'm not saying he's a good candidate from our perspective; I'm saying the elite don't seem to want him, presumably because they're not sure how well they can control him.)

Joel thinks the media build him up as a front-runner because the elite know that he has enough of his own money to buy his way into the race if he has to; this way, he doesn't do that and they can control just how much they build him up.

This is evidenced by how they resurrected McCain to stop Romney from winning after Giuliani -- who was built up for more than a year to be the nominee -- crashed and burned.

He thinks Huckabee was inserted last time to split the evangelical vote from mostly going to Romney, especially since many of them have reservations about backing a Mormon.

He thinks Cain has been inserted this time for the same reason. My guess is the sexual harassment scandal wouldn't be blown up in the media now if he was supposed to be the nominee. (If he was, and was then supposed to lose to Obama, they would've saved it until well into next year. If he was supposed to be the next president, they would've saved it as something to hold over his head to help keep him in line.) It looks like he was built up to split Romney's support, and now that he's doing too well, they're dialing it back.

As Giuliani showed last time, manipulating people is an art, not a science; you can't guarantee who will catch on. It looked like they were strongly considering Pawlenty, but he never caught on. Ditto Huntsman to a lesser degree.

It looks like they were strongly considering Perry too, but they somehow underestimated when they vetted him how unintelligent and inarticulate he is.

Who does that leave? Joel predicted nearly a year ago that the next nominee would probably be Gingrich. If I'm not mistaken, he's doing better financially and in the polls than McCain was at this point in 2007, and the media is already building him back up. I saw a story today on one of the cable channels about how he's now in third nationally (coverage that was, of course, denied to Ron when he was third, nor did they mention that Ron is just a couple of points behind him now). If the suspicions about the elite not wanting Romney are correct, Gingrich is about all that's left.

 

[No1ButPaul08]

CNBC Larry Kudlow, practically had an orgasm tsalking about CAIN's 999 plan again.

such BS

Larry Kudlow should be discredited and targeted on all media... he is a scumbag

Kudlow and Cain are just alike. They both were clueless about the housing bubble

 

[sailingaway]

Hey folks, just got back from the Ron Paul rally, awesome experience! I got to shake hands with Ron Paul and he signed my Revolution book! WOOO! Both the Red Ox and the Buddy's pizza were PACKED wall to wall, was awesome!

Very cool!!

 

[Naraku]

Ron Paul is right on federal student loans he just needs to explain it so these students will understand it, I was reading one of the articles someone posted on here and one of the students thinks if you eliminate the federal student loan program that only rich kids will be able to go to school when that isn't true.

Tuition has gone up for several reasons but the biggest cause is guaranteed student loans. When a loan is guaranteed there is no incentive for schools to lower costs, it encourages higher tuition rates. Why?

The students and parents are willing to pay these rates because the perception is that the value of a college degree will be more than the initial cost. As long as that is the perception rates will continue to rise. If student loans were not guaranteed it'd be a lot harder for students/parents to get loans to pay for tuition meaning fewer students, what will schools do in response to empty class rooms? Drop tuition rates and find ways to become more efficient, currently there is no reason for schools to do that because the consumer (students/parents) are willing and able to pay whatever rates they're demanding.

Ron Paul also needs to continue contrasting government controlled parts of the economy vs non-government controlled sections of the economy.

Unfortunately, Ron Paul isn't given the kind of time these other candidates get to respond to questions so he really can only get his basic outline out on two or three issues every debate.

 

[sailingaway]

Isn't that the truth. Although here, they all were asked to squish complex ideas into ludicrously short time slots. I think NBC was trying to give the impression that conservative ideas, altogether, were indefensible.

 

[parocks]

I was kinda joking. I don't want to do it, I like Ron winning by a huge margin. But I also think it is fair, no matter what they say, to do exactly what the polls are for and vote once for the person you like best. It does feel creepy to vote for someone I don't like.

Ok cool. But it really would be in our best interests if we were organized in such a manner that we would accomplish any type of thing like that. A perfect 3 way tie, just for kicks.

Our list of skills, list of tricks could be much longer. But it isn't very long. Mighty, but very selective mightyness.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Any tubes?

 

[IterTemporis]

Any tubes?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?329087-CNBC-Debate-Video-(YAY-TUBEZ)-November-9-2011

 

[Fredom101]

Well, it seems to be Romney's to lose at this point, unless they start shoving newt down everyone's throats. The establishment is OK with Romney, but it LOVES Perry, but it also knows you can't keep putting lipstick on that pig.

 

[parocks]

Well, kinda what I was saying is that Kissinger told the elites that Cain was acceptable, and that made Perry expendable. Cain hasn't been going away. If the elites give a thumbs up to Cain, the media could do a 180 and start talking about how Cain's the victim here. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but it is possible.

What your saying about Romney could be right. See "the proto..." Perry in 2007 with Gardasil and Bilderberg firmed himself up as the elites choice. Was probably told to practice debating really hard for the next 4 years.

On the other hand, Romney could also be quite acceptable, but also unmarketable. The elites would like all the candidates to be candidates who would do the bidding of the elites. They are certain to be thinking about Ron Paul.

Using the 2008 analogy. Cain is Fred Thompson. For whatever reason, not likely to be the nominee. Liked by those who consider themselves mainstream conservatives. Gingrich is McCain. The one who is well known, old, known simply as a good solid Republican. Perhaps the most deserving of the gold watch, the lifetime achievement award. McCain and Fred Thompson were well known as friends. One debate, Fred Thompson spent the whole time nodding whenever McCain said something, and praising McCain. You could see that he was throwing his support to McCain. We have not seen this yet, with Cain giving his support to Gingrich, but it is to be expected.

That is the one thing that we want to prevent - all of Cains support going to Gingrich. Certainly, if Cain drops out, I would assume that he'd endorse Gingrich.

But that doesn't mean that all of Cain's support will go to Gingrich. Work to block that from happening. The more scatter the better, I'd think.

Right now, we're 3 on Intrade. Romney has the huge lead, Gingrich is at 2, we're at 3.

Your analysis of Cain is excellent.

Joel Skousen thinks that the elite don't want Romney for whatever reason, probably because they have doubts about how easily they can control him, both because he already has too much money, and because he doesn't seem to have any significant skeletons in his closet, which indicates that he may not be that corruptible, and that they have little to blackmail him with to help keep him in line. (He's a statist, and I'm not saying he's a good candidate from our perspective; I'm saying the elite don't seem to want him, presumably because they're not sure how well they can control him.)

Joel thinks the media build him up as a front-runner because the elite know that he has enough of his own money to buy his way into the race if he has to; this way, he doesn't do that and they can control just how much they build him up.

This is evidenced by how they resurrected McCain to stop Romney from winning after Giuliani -- who was built up for more than a year to be the nominee -- crashed and burned.

He thinks Huckabee was inserted last time to split the evangelical vote from mostly going to Romney, especially since many of them have reservations about backing a Mormon.

He thinks Cain has been inserted this time for the same reason. My guess is the sexual harassment scandal wouldn't be blown up in the media now if he was supposed to be the nominee. (If he was, and was then supposed to lose to Obama, they would've saved it until well into next year. If he was supposed to be the next president, they would've saved it as something to hold over his head to help keep him in line.) It looks like he was built up to split Romney's support, and now that he's doing too well, they're dialing it back.

As Giuliani showed last time, manipulating people is an art, not a science; you can't guarantee who will catch on. It looked like they were strongly considering Pawlenty, but he never caught on. Ditto Huntsman to a lesser degree.

It looks like they were strongly considering Perry too, but they somehow underestimated when they vetted him how unintelligent and inarticulate he is.

Who does that leave? Joel predicted nearly a year ago that the next nominee would probably be Gingrich. If I'm not mistaken, he's doing better financially and in the polls than McCain was at this point in 2007, and the media is already building him back up. I saw a story today on one of the cable channels about how he's now in third nationally (coverage that was, of course, denied to Ron when he was third, nor did they mention that Ron is just a couple of points behind him now). If the suspicions about the elite not wanting Romney are correct, Gingrich is about all that's left.

 

[Badger Paul]

"Is it me, or is this blown way out of proportion? I'm not defending Perry; I'm pointing out we're not all as saintly as we'd like to think."

I've seen a lot of campaign gaffs and this one was pretty bad in my judgement because it reinforces the impression going back to his strange speech in New Hampshire and previous debates that he's not all there. I know conservatives and libertarians who can tick off 10 agencies they would get rid at the drop of a hat and all Perry can think of is two?

 

[jbuttell]

Cain reminds me more of Huck.. people led to believe he's an outsider, picks up a bunch of last minute support from people that really don't understand his policies...

 

[CUnknown]

Well, kinda what I was saying is that Kissinger told the elites that Cain was acceptable, and that made Perry expendable. Cain hasn't been going away. If the elites give a thumbs up to Cain, the media could do a 180 and start talking about how Cain's the victim here. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but it is possible.

[...]

On the other hand, Romney could also be quite acceptable, but also unmarketable. The elites would like all the candidates to be candidates who would do the bidding of the elites. They are certain to be thinking about Ron Paul.

I agree with your analysis here. The elites never thought Cain really had a chance, but now with his emergence they're throwing everything at him, trying to bring him down. There are two outcomes: A) he goes down. The elites are fine with this. Or B) he somehow weathers the storm and maybe even ends up winning the nom. I think the elites are fine with this, too. What they don't want is for him to be untested going into the general. He is under trial right now is the way I see it.

About Romney, yes, this is exactly right. He's always been the elite's first pick, he has been ever since '08. His problem is that the voters don't like him, lol. I honestly don't think that Mitt is getting the nom, no matter what happens. Newt I think has a better chance.

The cards are being dealt perfectly for Paul, we really couldn't ask for anything better. The media blackout you just have to take as a given when you're challenging the establishment.

 

[MJU1983]

Wow, just watched Ron's debate tube.

Uh,