Off Topic: Have you heard about the burning saltwater?

[Man from La Mancha]

This has been discussed before as posted by pyrazole2

http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=12132&page=36&highlight=auto

Right...

We did this experiment in High School, it's been around since they discovered microwave coils, and it pops up every year or so (many ways of making a plasma). Here's how we did it about 20 years ago: take a microwave coil from an ordinary microwave, supply it with as many amps as it's rated for (usually about 4-5x what the microwave transformer gives it). Put it back in the microwave, make a hole for introduction of a flame, salt water goes in. Press start. Introduce the flame above the salt water and remove the flame source. Sit back and watch it burn. You've just created an RF plasma which has about 20% conversion efficiency. Those RF waves aren't free, you know, someone had to harness energy to produce electricity....and now you've just turned 20% of that back into heat. You're going the wrong way, boys!

John Kanzius is also claiming that this 'machine' will cure cancer. Um, cancer AND free energy, sure, sure. He could be a little more suble with his insanity. And Rustim Roy, the emeritus professor from Penn State. I heard him talk last year at the ASME conference...he's strings of thought are completely incoherent at this point, it's pretty widely thought that he's mentally incapacitated. Great man, though, did some great stuff in Mat Sc.

There are so many problems with that video, I can't believe you put that forth as evidence. It's so obvious, even you all should realize it.

Good work, but something that's been readily available for 50 years. It's no secret, so what did the big oil companies do again?

.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

I just spent a while reading about Stirling Engines before coming back to this thread.
The solar powered Stirling Engines have a much greater potential to save the world than the flaming salt water, but it is still a cool thing.

...
eb

Yes, stirling engines are fantastic. Coleman is currently using the licensed technology to make a powered cooler that'll keep 30 cans of frosty cold bevereges in peak condition in 100deg heat, and only use 25 watts of power. Amazing little devices

m
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjAmdGosvzk (JAWS)

 

[jmunjr]

To know if this works, you would need to know if the flame from the test tube would produce enough useable energy to power the frequency generator that is making the water burn in the first place.

In other words, you have to put more energy into the gizmo than what it puts out....

 

[rdenner]

ENERGY IN VERSUS ENERGY OUT!!!

EROEI (Energy Returned on Energy Invested)

This is a horseshit experiment meant to make everyone think that Peak Oil is not going to happen.

Sorry to shit on everyones parade, but peak oil is here and now and is effecting everyone as we speak.

The slow slide down Hubberd's Peak is starting now.

Nothing you guys have talked about has ANYWHERE NEAR the energy density of easy to get easy to Refine OPEC oil.

Sure we could plant all our corn and instead of eating it we'll just burn it in our SUV's(what a great idea). But as were all finding out, PRICES OF FOOD GOES UP!! DUH, how the hell do our best and brightest fall for this insanity??

Nuclear is all built out and ultimately is an energy looser as is the Tar Sands in Canada(as it would take dozens of nuclear reactors to make it efficient enough to replace OPEC oil).

The only choice we as American's have IS TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND START LIVING WITHIN OUR MEANS. And that means more than just money, but energy as the two are intimately interlaced.

You don't have an economy without energy and you don't have money without and economy. Until we start living on the energy we derive HERE in this country, then we'll be forced to invade other countries and take their natural resources.

It's much more than just Halliburton profits. Without the massive amounts of imported oil this country brings in every DAY, it will DIE. UNLESS we start to move towards a new, less energy intensive life style.

And don't buy into the BULL CRAP that we can drill our way to independence as that is a bold face lie.

This country CONSUMES 25 MILLION BARRELS A DAY we produce 6.5 MILLION. There is no possible way that we can make up the shortfall domestically PERIOD. At best the ANWAR field will produce 1 million a day. If we drilled EVERYWHERE in the Gulf we might get another 1.5 and maybe 1 or so from the great lakes.

If we tore down every barrier to oil drilling in this country THE BEST we would get is maybe 9.5 million barrels of domestic production and AT BEST it would last 5 to 7 years and take 5 to 7 years to come on line.

The ONLY chance we as a soveriegn country have is to attack this on the demand side. AND THAT IS WHY RON PAUL'S ideas are so important. We MUST DESTROY the primacy of the US dollar which allows us to live way beyond our means. We use the US Dollar to buy oil from overseas which allows the average US Joe to continue in his wasteful ways, instead of trying to transition to something different.

This is WAY beyond buying a Toyota Prius my friends. We are talking about a wholesale rethinking of our entire way of life in the US. The first step is looking at your own life and how you can simplify, the last step is putting Ron Paul in the Whitehouse to clean up the mess that DC has wrought on us all.

Robert

 

[pyrazole2]

Great, then the government will have to steal more of my money to pay for a public relations campaign. "Smokey the Tuna says only you can prevent ocean fires."

omfg, that is hilarious. Damn, only from someone in oz (I'm originally from ICT, too)!

 

[trispear]

Now regarding the 2nd Law. I'm no expert but seeing how the hydrogen in the salt water is also a fuel, generating more power output than what is needed to power the RF generator would not violate the 2nd Law. Same as if you were using RF to burn gasoline or any other combustible.

This is Chemistry 101. Gasoline is not the same, it's a hydrocarbon. It has multiple carbon and hydrogen atoms making up a molecule -- with bonds in between those atoms. Breaking those bonds (subsequently breaking up the molecule into different, often simpler molecules) in an exothermic reaction is what gives off that energy in the form of heat.

Hydrogen is just a pure element. When Hydrogen burns, the energy doesn't come a destruction of bonds like hydrocarbons (because there are no bonds), but rather it is an exothermic reaction bonding hydrogen to other atoms, such as Oxygen. Thus when you burn hydrogen gas in an engine, water comes out of the tailpipe.

Now, don't you see the absurdity of salt walter (H20 + dissolved NaCL) being an energy gain? As far as I can see, all you are doing is breaking the Hydrogen--Oxygen bonds in the H20 (endothermic reaction - it takes energy) and then burning the hydrogen - just reversing the process.

 

[Hook]

Here we go again with perpetual motion.
If you could get more energy out of the hydrogen flame than the RF energy in, you could run your RF generator from energy from the flame. Then you could condense the H2O from the flame back into water to put back in the reaction chamber. The whole process would then go round and round, higher and higher energy until you had infinite energy. Then you could make a black hole with the infinite energy and destroy the entire solar system.
Obviously it doesn't work.

 

[Thom1776]

They've Already Reached Over 100% Output

He announced last month that they have achieved more energy out than in.

This guy is very well-intentioned, but naive.

He said he wants to sell the idea to fund his cancer research.

Why bother with that, anyway? Robert Krupa has modified ordinary spark plugs in such a way that they function as tiny Tesla coils. They create a plasma field in the combustion chamber that burns gasoline almost completely. But even better, they will instantaneously break water down into hydrogen and oxygen and combust them in the chamber and power the engine.

Anyone with basic metal working tools can make these plugs themselves.

This is awesome; Tesla technology applied to our everyday lives in a meaningful way.
It's all over for the oil companies.