Occupy Wall Street dudes want the Tea Party to show up

[69360]

OK, thanks. As per my update, another way to approach this is on a "separate but equal" sort of basis, i.e., a non-hostile, parallel demonstration. You'd pick a different name than Occupy Wall Street, but you'd set up shop near enough the Occupy Wall Street gatherings that you could float over and have a civil discussion.

Medea Benjamin of Code Pink had gone to her first Tea Party gathering with the idea of mocking the participants, but found out that they mostly seemed normal, she had many fans there, and also about half were anti-war.
Those are the sorts of realizations that I would like to see fostered. You can't - and shouldn't - cooperate in all areas. But it's quite possible to be somebody's political friend in one area, and their political enemy in another. Purists and party bots don't like this, and the plutocrats really don't like this (I'm guessing transpartisan coalition building that threatens the 2 party duopoly scares them more than anything), but free-born citizens of the US should relish the opportunity to exercize their freedom of association to manifest their collective political will, as well as can be done by a heterogeneous population.

Allowing plutocrats and party purists to split the public down the middle is probably the biggest reason that the public is disempowered relative to big money.

You have to understand that this is a serious mainstream republican campaign for the GOP nomination. Image is very important at this point. Ron Paul is trying to effect change from within the existing system. We have a 2 party system and that's not going to change right now. You undermine Ron Paul's chances in the Republican primary if you are seen by the media or the typical GOP voter as associating with the people protesting on wall st. or groups like code pink. Save it for after Ron wins the GOP nomination.

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

I agree, those people are on working against what we stand for.

Really? Can you really generalize like that? There is nothing inherently wrong with the anti-establishment left. Unless you have some evidence that these people have already been co-opted by the Democrats, I think my point still stands. Now I agree that we shouldn't be going there waving Ron Paul 2012 signs around, but there's no problem with passing around literature and such that doesn't explicitly endorse Ron Paul, but subtly mentions how libertarianism would deal with the problems of Wall St. and how they link to the activities of the Federal Reserve. It's all about framing a message...

 

[Revolution9]

I don't think it could possibly be so cut and dried. Your comment reminds of the brainless, endlessly repeated claim that all Tea Partiers are bots for the Koch brothers, because they did indeed sink a lot of cash into helping the Tea Parties start.

There will doubtlessly be people working to coop the Occupy Wall Street protests, to try and make sure that they don't threaten power. It's up to the participants to make sure that they fail, just like it's up to Tea Party rank-and-file to make sure that they're not just dupes of the Koch brothers.

You got one warning junior. Do not talk to me in that manner. I was polite with you but I guarantee you I can shred you and make the entire forum chuckle with glee.

Rev9

 

[orenbus]

You got one warning junior. Do not talk to me in that manner. I was polite with you but I guarantee you I can shred you and make the entire forum chuckle with glee.

Rev9

Hmm someone is mad?



(sorry couldn't help it)

 

[Chainspell]

You got one warning junior. Do not talk to me in that manner. I was polite with you but I guarantee you I can shred you and make the entire forum chuckle with glee.

Rev9

Oh stop... You're turning me on....

..haha just kidding (to lighten the mood)

 

[Revolution9]

Really? Can you really generalize like that? There is nothing inherently wrong with the anti-establishment left. Unless you have some evidence that these people have already been co-opted by the Democrats, I think my point still stands. Now I agree that we shouldn't be going there waving Ron Paul 2012 signs around, but there's no problem with passing around literature and such that doesn't explicitly endorse Ron Paul, but subtly mentions how libertarianism would deal with the problems of Wall St. and how they link to the activities of the Federal Reserve. It's all about framing a message...

These demos are commie think tank cointelpro ops. The big clue was it started on a weekend. Nobody serious about shutting down Wall St. is going to start it on a day it is already shut down. Further they thought it could shut down our money bomb for the same day, except we are not the people the goonsquad would think us to be. And then along comes metamar shilling for the liberal stronghold sites with a choice plan. Trash the image we have going with conservatives to back these useless and totally ineffective hippie actions. Clue metamar. You want to shut down Wall St. you do it with convictions. Only one guy has spoken of conviction in steganographic terms. Yer guess who that was is a cogent analysis. The other way to shut down Wall St. is to put all assets in hard goods and precious metals. As it is yer only giving the goonsquad faces, names and addresses for the "privelege" of hoisting a few signs and getting in the way of pedestrians.

Rev9

 

[Revolution9]

Oh stop... You're turning me on....

..haha just kidding (to lighten the mood)

I am as far from a rabid tea partier as you can get. Junior needs his ass in order before launching into autobabble.

Rev9

 

[Revolution9]

Hmm someone is mad?



(sorry couldn't help it)

Ya gotta read it like Yosemite Sam to get the gist.

HTH
Rev9

 

[metamars]

Well, I've got no problem with him trying to effect change within the Republican party. At firedoglake, where I frequently post, many people have terminally soured on the Democrats. While I respect neither major party, and in fact consider them crime families, of sorts, I don't believe that they should just be totally abandoned; at least, not with a serious and intelligent (strategic) fight. I generally advise people to form voting blocs, which can support candidates on any ballot line, though first choice should be Dem or Repub, depending on the affinities of the vote bloc members.

That said, Romney is polling 3x Ron Paul, ala Rasmussen. If Ron Paul could successfully recruit hordes of anti-war voters into his camp during at least the primaries, it might be enough to put him over the top. I don't have any statistics (I doubt any exist) on the makeup of the OWS participants, but I doubt there's too many hard-core Democrats. Probably, you have independents, and liberals that lean Democratic, but probably vote for them while holding their noses.

The october2011.org occupation will probably be much larger, still. It will probably generate satellite gatherings throughout the country, as OWS has started doing. Again, I think you aren't going to find many hard core Democrats.

Maybe it's best to do some private polling. I.e., if you have a contact in NYC, send him or her to mingle with the OWS folks, and feel them out for supporting Paul during the primaries. If you can get Paul into the general election, it's a whole new ballgame.

 

[Tod]

Would be really nice is Tea Parties could show up and focus on demanding an end to corporate welfare.

This is definitely a short bridge to the left that we should focus on building.

No, no, no.....that would probably end the Paul campaign to be connected with these clowns. Awful judgement.

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

Again, not quite sure why people here are slandering 'hippies'... these people were our allies against Vietnam in the '60's. It is perfectly fine to disagree on methods and even on what our ideal society would look like, but slandering people whether they are more "conservative" or "liberal" gets us nowhere. You talk about trying to play nice with the conservative base, but it shouldn't involve trashing the anti-establishment left as well.

Until I see evidence of all of these protesters being connected with cointelpro or the Establishment rather than just platitudes, I will stick by what I've said. I guess I'm just tired of all the labeling and liberal-bashing that goes on here. Why don't we make the same distinction with them as we do with the Tea Party? Those who have been co-opted, and those who haven't. I don't see what is so hard about that.

I am not sure most 'conservatives' back the removal of the Fed either... there are enemies on both "sides" in that case. If you're wondering why I'm putting everything in quotations.. I don't seriously believe for one moment that there are distinctions to be made in terms of differences on some spectrum. I guess they're interesting and useful for laymen's talk, but again, I'm kind of tired of thinking about everything in two dimensions.

 

[69360]

I'm not slandering anyone. I'm reminding all of you that this is a mainstream Republican primary campaign. If you want to win the Republican nomination for president, you don't associate with groups like what is going on on wall st right now. Image is very important. Work within the system to get Ron Paul the nomination. Once that happens, THEN build coalitions in the general.

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

I'm not slandering anyone. I'm reminding all of you that this is a mainstream Republican primary campaign. If you want to win the Republican nomination for president, you don't associate with groups like what is going on on wall st right now. Image is very important.

And I agree with you. My above post wasn't directed at you in particular... it was focused at people getting too caught up in 'hating the hippies'. My point is that while there is common ground with people and some of the more libertarian people here can focus on that connection by linking libertarian ideas with anti-corporatism, it probably isn't a good idea to explicitly associate Ron Paul's name with these protests. Steer these protesters in such a way that would lead to their discovery of the real Ron Paul (not as he is portrayed in the media), without ever mentioning his name. We are in complete agreement here.

 

[metamars]

These demos are commie think tank cointelpro ops. The big clue was it started on a weekend. Nobody serious about shutting down Wall St. is going to start it on a day it is already shut down. Further they thought it could shut down our money bomb for the same day, except we are not the people the goonsquad would think us to be. And then along comes metamar shilling for the liberal stronghold sites with a choice plan. Trash the image we have going with conservatives to back these useless and totally ineffective hippie actions. Clue metamar. You want to shut down Wall St. you do it with convictions. Only one guy has spoken of conviction in steganographic terms. Yer guess who that was is a cogent analysis. The other way to shut down Wall St. is to put all assets in hard goods and precious metals. As it is yer only giving the goonsquad faces, names and addresses for the "privelege" of hoisting a few signs and getting in the way of pedestrians.

Rev9

I frankly fail to see the problem with starting on a Saturday. It's supposed to be long-lasting - that's why they call it "occupation". The longer the occupation goes on, the longer that it's starting day has to fall into the vagaries of memory.

I'm not shilling for anybody, except myself. I'm perfectly capable of annoying people of diverse political persuasions; a talent that I display at firedoglake, where there's been lots of internalization of the Global Warming misinformation and smears. Unfortunately, lefties have bought into Global Warming mish mosh, and freely regurgitate the warmst smears and talking points. The funniest one is that of denying climate change - like there's any scientist in a related field, in the whole world, who doesn't believe in ice ages. If you believe in ice ages, you certainly believe that climate changes.

I personally think that ALL activism should have an electoral aspect, and that it's stupid not to do so. I've compared it to fighting with one hand tied behind your back. As I wrote in, National Nurses United opts for feel good activism, ignores lessons of Tea Parties and WI Dems

Imagine if the Tea Parties had merely had “actions” of one sort or another. Perhaps one day they dumped tea into a local body of water, perhaps on another day they threw IRS tax forms into a bonfire, perhaps on another occasion they handed out mock Kenyan birth certificates with Obama’s name on them, etc. There’re “actions” galore that one can think of, that might be fun; and furthermore, many are, indeed, educational.

Question: What would have been their effect on the Republican party?
Answer: Zero

 

[Echoes]

No friggin way, im all for ending corporate welfare but hippie commies arent the answer.

 

[orenbus]

Sign at 0:30 says "Ron Paul is Crazy === Peace and Liberty Who Needs Em?"

4:05 Jimmy "the rent is too damn high" McMillan says he is Ron Paul with a sun tan.

As I mentioned in another thread this thing is made up of every political group and belief structure under the sun.

This is New York after all.

 

[TheLasersShadow]

We're being occupied by banksters! These protests are great but as ALWAYS the fool commies and anarchists will join in and be in the media spotlight being violent and idiotic. What would be great is for the Tea-o-cons (not rp supporters or rather camoflaged no rp gear) to join in mass and demand real change, end the fed, no more bail outs, stop the printing press and digital creation of money.

What would solve this economic mess is DEFLATION, it would destroy the zombie banks and be like essentially hitting the reset button on all debt. I might not be someone you respect and listen to but maybe a Mises Institute Prof would be. Read this short book its less than 50 pages http://mises.org/resources/3726/Deflation-and-Liberty
and watch this video by the same guy Jorg Guido Hulsmann http://youtu.be/U9w0S9bEXIw

If we can create deflation we bankrupt the banksters, end the depression and devastate the NWO establishment (replace NWO with what your comfortable with). Deflation is preferable to the common man when considering the current outlook of 10+ years of hardcore depression and tyranny. The common man can recover quite quickly in a deflationary environment, although he will have to default on his mortgage (likely will anyways) or renegotiate his loan, maybe pay rent. The economy will quickly recover but this time with all the to big to fails gone and with a near zero debt environment. Before telling me I'm wrong Check out those 2 links.

 

[BarryDonegan]

There are plenty of good folks who work on Wall Street. There should be a protest at the Federal Reserve, as they are a better recipient of the blame aimed truly at just a small handfull of corps that receive free moneys.

 

[SchleckBros]

Sign at 0:30 says "Ron Paul is Crazy === Peace and Liberty Who Needs Em?"

4:05 Jimmy "the rent is too damn high" McMillan says he is Ron Paul with a sun tan.

As I mentioned in another thread this thing is made up of every political group and belief structure under the sun.

This is New York after all.

HAHAHAHAHAHA I changed my mind. Stay far, far, far away

 

[Taco John]

I dont quite understand what these folks are protesting. I dont have a problem with Wall Street, my problem is with Washington. I wouldn't show up to this because it seems like a confused waste of time to me.