OBAMA TO GRANT IMMUNITY TO YOUNG ILLEGALS

[Ender]

Well, yeah, but the American Revolution was fought before the industrial revolution, which kind of defines capitalism as it's understood today, so...

So, you are saying that truth changes because of the stupidity of the people?

Capitalism is the right to sell and trade in the open market; it is the right to succeed and to fail. If you make a whatchamagidget that everyone likes, you have the right to sell it and people have the right to buy. When something becomes overwhelmingly popular then the price goes down as more people buy and everybody wins. If you make a gadget that no one likes, then you have the right to close shop and look elsewhere for a money-making enterprise.

Mercantilism serves the elite, while the masses are made to buy and to adhere to rules that profit the few. THIS is why the Revolutionary War was fought and THIS is where we are again today.

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

This is simply a talking point for the illegal enablers. My better half was a maid, but the illegals made the place so hostile for Americans to work at that she quit. And the one illegal that worked with her was shunned by the rest. They do not just do the work in the fields you name, they are very heavy in the skilled trades and the last time I worked on a big project non-illegals were almost non -existent in the field I am in, and in some others. They didn't take my presence too kindly. And I know people in landscaping that have to compete with the illegals, I myself am a contractor that has to.



So you have opted out of the SS program?

//

 

[ProIndividual]

I must have missed that, please give the link again and I will read it.

It's 2 pages...Forbes magazine:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0...ation-opening-borders-mexico-let-them-in.html

The videos at Reason and articles (and books) at CATO will give you access to an abundance of studies. Even the border hawk economists agree "illegals" add more to the economy than they take away via government programs and tax evasion...they find other reasons to oppose immigration (usually cutlure war stuff, because most of them admit immigration is condusive to economic growth and there is no negative correlation, let alone causation, between native wages, native unemployment rates, and native poverty rates and immigration levels...as you'll see in that article, American wages GREW during our greatest periods of immigration because of the competition in the free labor market). Much of economics (and libertarianism in general) is is counter intuitive, but deductively logical.

 

[Origanalist]

My response to this is always: If you can't compete in the workforce with someone who doesn't even speak our language then there is something wrong with you.

What? That doesn't even make sense. WTH does language have to do with anything?

Did you even read my post?

 

[ZenBowman]

How is advocating for another tyranny (like closed borders) advancing the end of tyranny in other areas (like collectivism of welafre and social programs)? It logically isn't. You guys seem to think liberty needs to be restored in a certain order (1,2,3,...) or it cannot be restroed. WRONG. It will be restored when a tyranny is ended, in any order. To attack one individual right so until you can restore another is hypocritical at best. And again, your ideas are founded in economic ignorance. Milton Friedman's "can't have open borders ina welafre state" has been disproven with data for decades. We know "illegal" immigrants contrinute more to the economy than they take in social programs. So there is nothing to fear. Immigration is NOT subsidized by the state, and moving to a new country can be somewhat expensive (even if in just loss of life itself). It therefore takes motivated individual to immigrate, and they generally do not get on welfare or move to get welfare. If you guys read the article I linked to, where I got the graph, you'd know that. In 99% of cases immigrants move to lesser welfare states to find WORK. Only in 1% of cases did they move, when given an open and free choice, to the most lucrative welfare states.

What is sad is that people on here easily see the inhumanity and barbarity of deporting illegals when done by another country, and rightfully denounce it then (see:http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...eaten-the-%93Character%94-of-the-Jewish-State) - but then those same people cheer on deportation of illegals when we do it.

 

[Origanalist]

It's 2 pages...Forbes magazine:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0...ation-opening-borders-mexico-let-them-in.html

The videos at Reason and articles (and books) at CATO will give you access to an abundance of studies. Even the border hawk economists agree "illegals" add more to the economy than they take away via government programs and tax evasion...they find other reasons to oppose immigration (usually cutlure war stuff, because most of them admit immigration is condusive to economic growth and there is no negative correlation, let alone causation, between native wages, native unemployment rates, and native poverty rates and immigration levels...as you'll see in that article, American wages GREW during our greatest periods of immigration because of the competition in the free labor market). Much of economics (and libertarianism in general) is is counter intuitive, but deductively logical.

Thank you, I will give it a read when I get back home tonight.

 

[realtonygoodwin]

The border issue is a matter of national security. The Federal Government does have a responsibility for national security, to protect against attacks from outside forces. That isn't possible without knowing and controlling who is crossing the border.

Make legal immigration cheaper, faster, and more efficient.
Secure border.
Remove the welfare state incentives.
End the Drug War.
Deport illegal immigrants.

Problem greatly alleviated.

 

[KingNothing]

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...es-election-year-change-in-immigration-policy

Just so I'm clear --- is the jist of this that people who have been in America for many years, are employed and do not have criminal records, can be allowed to stay and work in America now?


If that is the true scope of this, I have absolutely no problem with it.

 

[KingNothing]

But those are jobs that would go to Americans with better pay otherwise

Ask some farmers in the south about that. They've had entire crops lost because they couldn't find non-immigrants to work their fields.

 

[Ender]

The border issue is a matter of national security. The Federal Government does have a responsibility for national security, to protect against attacks from outside forces. That isn't possible without knowing and controlling who is crossing the border.

Make legal immigration cheaper, faster, and more efficient.
Secure border.
Remove the welfare state incentives.
End the Drug War.
Deport illegal immigrants.

Problem greatly alleviated.

When 911 happened, someone asked me what I would do as president.

My reply was:

Bring our troops home and protect America, stop all funding of any other country, close the borders.

I was 14 years old.

When the borders were not closed I realized that the WoT was a fake and was a set up to push Americans into things like the Patriot Act and also an excuse to invade and take over other countries.

"Illegals" are not the problem; WE are the problem.

"We have found the enemy and he is us."

BTW- I agree on all other points.

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

What? That doesn't even make sense. WTH does language have to do with anything?

Did you even read my post?

The three people who liked my post understood it fine. You were complaining about all the illegals working as maids, construction workers, etc.

If you can't compete in the workforce with someone who doesn't even speak our language and isn't even a legal citizen then there is something wrong with you.

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

Ask some farmers in the south about that. They've had entire crops lost because they couldn't find non-immigrants to work their fields.

Yep. Read an article about this when Alabama and Georgia cracked down on people hiring illegals (especially as farm laborers) and the result was most of their crops dying on the vine. Sure, they had a few legal citizens show up to apply, but they left halfway through the day and demanded they be paid for a full day. Not to mention all the complaining they did about the heat, the dirt, the bugs, the bending, the stretching, the lack of breaks, etc.

So what did they do? They ended up allowing farmers to use prisoners as a form of forced labor. One farmer commented on this and said that the convicts were bruising the fruit, dropping and then leaving produce on the ground to rot, etc.

 

[Lord Xar]

The three people who liked my post understood it fine. You were complaining about all the illegals working as maids, construction workers, etc.

If you can't compete in the workforce with someone who doesn't even speak our language and isn't even a legal citizen then there is something wrong with you.

Stop being an idiot. What is your work experience? My guess, you have very little if any at all.

I also wouldn't count 3likes from other open border advocates as a resounding support of your statements.

 

[asurfaholic]

My response to this is always: If you can't compete in the workforce with someone who doesn't even speak our language then there is something wrong with you.

This is an incredibly naive response and I wonder if you are being deliberately insulting. The company that employs the illegals may very well speak perfect english, and the fact of the matter is the illegals are working for much less than white people would work for, and they are also much more efficient. They will work all day long without breaks if you require that of them. These simple and easy to grasp facts, coupled with the undeniable truth that americans are lazy and want to be paid very handsomly makes it impossible to compete with company's that use illegals.

Why not open your mind and let some common sense in before you open your mouth and let pure bullshit come spilling out.

 

[realtonygoodwin]

Also, it will be necessary to either get rid of the minimum wage, or get used to much higher food prices. I vote for the former.

 

[ProIndividual]

The border issue is a matter of national security. The Federal Government does have a responsibility for national security, to protect against attacks from outside forces. That isn't possible without knowing and controlling who is crossing the border.

Make legal immigration cheaper, faster, and more efficient.
Secure border.
Remove the welfare state incentives.
End the Drug War.
Deport illegal immigrants.

Problem greatly alleviated.

Please go to the article I'm linking to..it addresses this issue. (It's not logical to think incentivizing illegal entry without background checks and medical checks is safer than allowing legal entry at market levels with background checks and medical checks. Then you are facing a much smaller group of people sneaking in, in order to weed out the problem folks).

Let Them In
Philippe Legrain, 06.10.10, 09:40 AM EDT
Forbes Magazine dated June 28, 2010
Opening America's borders is morally right, economically beneficial--and would even make America safer.

It's in the subtitle to the article!

 

[erowe1]

This is an incredibly naive response and I wonder if you are being deliberately insulting. The company that employs the illegals may very well speak perfect english, and the fact of the matter is the illegals are working for much less than white people would work for, and they are also much more efficient. They will work all day long without breaks if you require that of them. These simple and easy to grasp facts, coupled with the undeniable truth that americans are lazy and want to be paid very handsomly makes it impossible to compete with company's that use illegals.

Why not open your mind and let some common sense in before you open your mouth and let pure bullshit come spilling out.

This post is confusing. Everything you say supports the idea that we need more illegal immigrant labor. But your tone, and the way you contrast "illegals" with "white people," suggests that that's not where you're coming from.

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

@everyone who is mad

You mad bro? Back up your anger with an argument instead of insulting me.

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

Stop being an idiot. What is your work experience? My guess, you have very little if any at all.

I also wouldn't count 3likes from other open border advocates as a resounding support of your statements.

Since when does "they understood it fine" mean "a resounding support of my statements"?

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

This is an incredibly naive response and I wonder if you are being deliberately insulting. The company that employs the illegals may very well speak perfect english, and the fact of the matter is the illegals are working for much less than white people would work for, and they are also much more efficient. They will work all day long without breaks if you require that of them. These simple and easy to grasp facts, coupled with the undeniable truth that americans are lazy and want to be paid very handsomly makes it impossible to compete with company's that use illegals.

Why not open your mind and let some common sense in before you open your mouth and let pure bullshit come spilling out.

You should really take your own advice.

I stand by my original statement.