Obama A closet constitutionalist?

Never.

I'm a principled person. I have strong opinions for which I defend. I'm sorry those positions unnerve you, but you haven't shown so much as circular reasoning yourself. I do believe strongly in liberty, but I am not sold completely on anarchist free market, and prefer common sense mixed market. I do not ever condone punishment or gunpoint submitting for violation of federal programs, and frankly, suggesting I do is the most offensive thing so far... you don't know, and you are just adding your own opinion into what you think I stand for...


Your soap box rant sounds nice and all, but the proof is in the pudding.

they didn't want this document to be excessively binding to future generations either...

We are clearly bound by this document. The problem is the document has never wielded more power then it does today.

So on one hand, you claim they didn't want us to be excessively bound, yet on the other you like that the document expanded in power and that we are bound by the expanse in power.

You contradict yourself constantly in order to defend your flawed thinking. This is why you are an intellectual lightweight. You lie even to yourself.
 
Your soap box rant sounds nice and all, but the proof is in the pudding.

they didn't want this document to be excessively binding to future generations either...

We are clearly bound by this document. The problem is the document has never wielded more power then it does today.

So on one hand, you claim they didn't want us to be excessively bound, yet on the other you like that the document expanded in power and that we are bound by the expanse in power.

You contradict yourself constantly in order to defend your flawed thinking. This is why you are an intellectual lightweight. You lie even to yourself.

The soapbox is all I have online.

The ability you have to define my position for me is reminiscent of modern Republican politics, one for which I can't blame you. You don't speak for me, and you clearly don't understand much... rather, you appear to disagree with some of my understanding, which is fine. In the end, I'm willing to argue whatever point you want, or no points at all, and we can continue throwing insults back and forth, but I hold my own well.

The face of the enemy frightens me only when I see how much it resembles me.
 
I imagine we all know this already, but in case someone somewhere hasn't seen it.

In federalist #41 the concept that Kade applies to general welfare was utterly laughed at as nonsensical. Notice he still defends it however.........

madison said:
Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States," amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction.

Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases. A power to destroy the freedom of the press, the trial by jury, or even to regulate the course of descents, or the forms of conveyances, must be very singularly expressed by the terms "to raise money for the general welfare."

But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon? If the different parts of the same instrument ought to be so expounded, as to give meaning to every part which will bear it, shall one part of the same sentence be excluded altogether from a share in the meaning; and shall the more doubtful and indefinite terms be retained in their full extent, and the clear and precise expressions be denied any signification whatsoever? For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power? Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars. But the idea of an enumeration of particulars which neither explain nor qualify the general meaning, and can have no other effect than to confound and mislead, is an absurdity, which, as we are reduced to the dilemma of charging either on the authors of the objection or on the authors of the Constitution, we must take the liberty of supposing, had not its origin with the latter.

The objection here is the more extraordinary, as it appears that the language used by the convention is a copy from the articles of Confederation. The objects of the Union among the States, as described in article third, are "their common defense, security of their liberties, and mutual and general welfare." The terms of article eighth are still more identical: "All charges of war and all other expenses that shall be incurred for the common defense or general welfare, and allowed by the United States in Congress, shall be defrayed out of a common treasury," etc. A similar language again occurs in article ninth. Construe either of these articles by the rules which would justify the construction put on the new Constitution, and they vest in the existing Congress a power to legislate in all cases whatsoever. But what would have been thought of that assembly, if, attaching themselves to these general expressions, and disregarding the specifications which ascertain and limit their import, they had exercised an unlimited power of providing for the common defense and general welfare? I appeal to the objectors themselves, whether they would in that case have employed the same reasoning in justification of Congress as they now make use of against the convention. How difficult it is for error to escape its own condemnation!
 
I imagine we all know this already, but in case someone somewhere hasn't seen it.

In federalist #41 the concept that Kade applies to general welfare was utterly laughed at as nonsensical. Notice he still defends it however.........

You are being intellectually dishonest. I never defended the position, I only pointed out the interpretation of the Constitution is still going on, and that it is a living document. I cited that passage as proof, that in fact, the framers did not put a blueprint towards interpreting the Constitution. I used it as an example, like the Cruel and Unusual Clause before it... The document is binding to the government, not the people. I pointed this out several times and in several threads, especially in consideration for the supposed "Unconstitutionality" of Universal Healthcare. The interpretation is key, and it is not based on solely original intent, because that itself is rather unconstitutional, seeing as there was no method. One cannot go by textualism alone, and all students and scholars of law understand this...

I personally do not agree with or support welfare programs. You really are out of bounds here.
 
You are being intellectually dishonest. I never defended the position, I only pointed out the interpretation of the Constitution is still going on, and that it is a living document.

You pointed to this as an example of enumerated powers.

I cut out the rest of your BS as this is the crux of the argument and if I allow you to expand it, you will just lie about other issues as well.

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Seems enumerated to me..."
 
the Constitution is still going on, and that it is a living document.

from the manifesto:
wipmhc.jpg
 
From another thread worth posting here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial

Well, I would vote third party instead of Obama. However, if you must vote for establishment, vote Obama. At least then you are doing the key: STOP MCCAIN!

Already, the Republicans are slated to lose congress. They believe that at this point the only way to maintain the republicans is to get mccain in the white house. So, conversely, if the republicans lose the white house, they have no power base.

Enter the RPR's. If somehow McCain loses, and Repubs mostly lose congress, the party will be more vulnerable than it was when the gang of 11 began back last year with the new presidential cycle. Our ideology can win! And WE will be in the system.

We have to pick our foes one at a time. Beat the neo-cons before you beat the socialists.

QFT - now here is a Ron Paul supporter who totally gets it, get on board the STOP McCain train
 
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