NYC - The chokehold death of Jordan Neely [VERDICT: Daniel Penny not guilty]

[jmdrake]

Thanks for posting this.

Daniel Penny speaks out about protecting passengers from Jordan Neely: ‘I knew I had to act’
"We were all scared. Mr. Neely was yelling in passengers' faces and they were terrified," Penny explained.
https://thepostmillennial.com/break...sengers-from-jordan-neely-i-knew-i-had-to-act
Katie Daviscourt (11 June 2023)

On Sunday, Daniel Penny spoke out for the first time regarding the incident in which he had placed Jordan Neely into a chokehold on a New York City subway in May, saying he was "trying to protect passengers" from the homeless man that was making violent threats.

Penny explained the circumstances surrounding the incident. He had taken the uptown F train, and said that he saw a man get on the train at the Second Avenue stop, only a few stops after Perry, who was coming home from school.

"He appeared to be on drugs," Penny said. "The doors closed and he ripped his jacket off and threw it at the people sitting down to my left. I was listening to music at the time and I took my headphones out to hear what he was yelling.

That's what I've been waiting to hear someone say this entire thread! [MENTION=3169]Anti Federalist[/MENTION], ^that is assault. (Taking off jacket and throwing it at someone). Yeah, it's probably not as scary as hearing someone say "I'll kill a MF'er", but it's an actual criminal act whereas a threat, in general, is not. (Threats can be criminal harassment but even then they have to be directed at someone.) Going back to the example I gave of Cornel West, the "Unite The Right" neo Nazis and antifa, if the neo Nazis had thrown a Tiki Torch at Dr. West and antifa had responded with pepper spray that would have been justified.

"The three main threats that he repeated over and over were 'I'm going to kill you,' 'I'm prepared to go to jail for life,' and 'I'm willing to die."

Hmmmm.....we've gone from "I don’t care if I have to kill an F, I will. I’ll go to jail, I’ll take a bullet." (not criminal harassment because it's not directed at any person) to ""I'm going to kill you" (criminal harassment because it is directed at a particular person.) Initial statements to the police will be important here. Right after the incident did he tell the police that Neely said "I'm going to kill you" as opposed to "I don't care if I have to kill an F?" The prosecution will argue "He's just saying now what he thinks the law wants to hear." Regardless the burden will be on the prosecution.

Penny said it was "a scary situation," and that he was "scared for himself," but that looking around at the women and children on the train, he "couldn't just sit still."

The incident, which was captured on video, ultimately resulted in Neely's death, and Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg's office has charged Penny with manslaughter.

"Some people say that I was holding onto Mr. Neely for 15 minutes. This is not true," Penny said. "The whole interaction was than less than five minutes. People say I was trying to choke him to death, which is also not true. I was trying to restrain him."

The 15 minute timeframe misinformation has been puzzling the hell out of me. I've seen that number thrown around a lot but I have no idea where it came from. The video is 3 minutes. The witness who took it said the entire altercation lasted 7 minutes. Penny's estimation of 5 minutes is far closer to the actual time and one can forgive him for being off 2 minutes...if he was actually off. (Witness could have overestimated by 2 minutes).

Penny recollected that Neely, a homeless man, was making violent threats towards passengers, which included many passengers that were people-of-color. He emphasized that his decision to place Neely into a chokehold "was not about race" but rather to protect his fellow passengers from the threats of violence.

https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1668066108824510464

​

"You can see in the video there's a clear rise and fall of his chest, indicating that he's breathing. I was trying to restrain him from being able to carry out the threats," Penny said. "Some people say that this was about race, which is absolutely ridiculous. I didn't see a black man threatening passengers. I saw a man threatening passengers. A lot of whom were people of color."

"The man who helped restrain Mr. Neely was a person of color," Penny explained. "A few days after the incident, I read in the papers that a woman of color came out and called me a hero. I don't believe that I'm a hero, but she was one of those people that I was trying to protect."

"We were all scared. Mr. Neely was yelling in passengers faces and they were terrified," Penny explained.

The Marine Corps veteran said that he never meant for Neely to die from the restraint and "was praying that the police would come and take this situation over."

"I didn't want to be put in that situation but I couldn't just sit still and let let him carry out these threats," Penny concluded.

The incident sparked outrage across social media and Penny was painted as some kind of vigilante killer. The New York medical examiner's office ruled Neely's death a homicide and Penny now faces charges of manslaughter. Supporters of Penny created a fundraiser for his attorneys fees which has surpassed millions of dollars.

Making this about race was absolutely retarded. The man that was holding Neely's arms is black.

 

[acptulsa]

Making this about race was absolutely retarded. The man that was holding Neely's arms is black.

One thing I've noticed about the new corporo-bureaucratic America: Retarded is standard operating procedure.

 

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1668967408986456065

 

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah, this poor bastard is going to jail.

In front of a woke Manhattan jury, he's toast.


Grand Jury Indicts Ex-Marine Daniel Penny for Death of Jordan Neely

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...arine-daniel-penny-for-death-of-jordan-neely/

PAUL BOIS 14 Jun 2023

A grand jury in New York indicted former Marine Daniel Penny on manslaughter charges for his involvement in the death of Jordan Neely.

Though the exact charges against Penny have not yet been revealed, sources told Fox News that the grand jury “indicted him on charges of criminally negligent homicide and second-degree manslaughter.” He had been previously arrested by authorities for second-degree manslaughter.

Neely had a history of mental issues and often frequented the station as a Michael Jackson impersonator. He also had an active warrant for his arrest for felony assault. Per CBS News:

Police sources say around 2:30 Tuesday afternoon, Neely was allegedly throwing trash, yelling at passengers and acting erratically on the F train at the east Houston and Lafayette street station.

Things quickly escalated when the 24-year-old tried to subdue him by using what appears to be a chokehold.

CBS2 has learned Neely was homeless, had a history of mental illness, and had an active warrant out for his arrest for a felony assault.

Neely’s family has called on Daniel Penny to be hit with murder charges.

In a series of videos released by Penny’s lawyers thus past Sunday, the ex-Marine outlined he had been plunged into a “scary situation” when Neely entered the subway car, allegedly screaming and threatening to kill people.

“The man stumbled on, he appeared to be on drugs, the doors closed, and he ripped his jacket off and threw it down at the people sitting next to me at my left,” Penny said.

“I was listening to music at the time, and I took my headphones out to hear what he was yelling,” he continued. “The three main threats that he repeated over and over again were ‘I’m going to kill you,’ ‘I’m prepared to go to jail for life’ and ‘I’m willing to die.’”

Though Penny stands at 6’2″, Neely still stood taller than him and allegedly “terrified” other passengers with his violent rhetoric.

“There’s a common misconception that Marines don’t get scared. We’re actually taught one of our core values is courage, and courage is not the absence of fear but how you handle fear,” he said. “I was scared for myself but I looked around. There was women and children. He was yelling in their faces saying these threats. I just couldn’t sit still.”

Penny further disputed claims he held Neely in a chokehold on the subway floor for 15 minutes.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Yeah, this poor bastard is going to jail.

In front of a woke Manhattan jury, he's toast.

Grand Jury Indicts Ex-Marine Daniel Penny for Death of Jordan Neely
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...arine-daniel-penny-for-death-of-jordan-neely/
PAUL BOIS 14 Jun 2023

[...]

I'm not so sure he's doomed. They can indict a ham sandwich, but convicting it is another matter. The prosecution might well be "woke", but the jury? Some of them, maybe - but to stymie a conviction, it would only take one juror who isn't, or one who is fed up with all the rampant crime and chaos. (Bernhard Goetz redux?) And surely there's at least a possibility of there being a few such jurors. So I don't think it's entirely hopeless. Of course, I won't be shocked if he is convicted of at least something (even if only as a cowardly, half-assed compromise verdict arising as a result of the jury being unwilling to "do nothing"). We'll just have to wait and see.

Speaking for myself, based on what I currently know about the incident (and subject to change should more information become available), I would vote to acquit - because even if Penny is technically "guilty", I do not think his conviction would serve the interests of justice. Of course, robotic cog-drone rules-appliers will denounce this as "jury nullification" (as if that is a bad thing) - but rote application of the law should not ever be an end in itself.

 

[sparebulb]

I'm not so sure he's doomed. They can indict a ham sandwich, but convicting it is another matter. The prosecution might well be "woke", but the jury? Some of them, maybe - but to stymie a conviction, it would only take one juror who isn't, or one who is fed up with all the rampant crime and chaos. (Bernhard Goetz redux?) And surely there's at least a possibility of there being a few such jurors. So I don't think it's entirely hopeless. Of course, I won't be shocked if he is convicted of at least something (even if only as a cowardly, half-assed compromise verdict arising as a result of the jury being unwilling to "do nothing"). We'll just have to wait and see.

Speaking for myself, based on what I currently know about the incident (and subject to change should more information become available), I would vote to acquit - because even if Penny is technically "guilty", I do not think his conviction would serve the interests of justice. Of course, robotic cog-drone rules-appliers will denounce this as "jury nullification" (as if that is a bad thing) - but rote application of the law should not ever be an end in itself.

I'm with you.

With what I know at this time, I would acquit even though I have strong reservations about his actions.

I can't deny that society is better off without this aspiring rapper, aka "gentle giant", etc

 

[Anti Federalist]

I'm with you.

With what I know at this time, I would acquit even though I have strong reservations about his actions.

I can't deny that society is better off without this aspiring rapper, aka "gentle giant", etc

What are those reservations?

 

[sparebulb]

What are those reservations?

Choking a guy past the point of being limp and unresponsive might be something that a psychopath/cop-like personality might do if he thinks that he has a chance to do it/get away with it/get praised for it.

I don't want these personalities to be emboldened past the point of reasonableness.

And I don't like this manufactured credibility of being a "marine".

We don't want more of where that type of thinking will go.......

 

[Occam's Banana]

I'm not so sure he's doomed. They can indict a ham sandwich, but convicting it is another matter. The prosecution might well be "woke", but the jury? Some of them, maybe - but to stymie a conviction, it would only take one juror who isn't, or one who is fed up with all the rampant crime and chaos. (Bernhard Goetz redux?) And surely there's at least a possibility of there being a few such jurors. So I don't think it's entirely hopeless. [...]

https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1669337028347977730

 

[jmdrake]

Yeah, this poor bastard is going to jail.

In front of a woke Manhattan jury, he's toast.


Grand Jury Indicts Ex-Marine Daniel Penny for Death of Jordan Neely

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...arine-daniel-penny-for-death-of-jordan-neely/

PAUL BOIS 14 Jun 2023

A grand jury in New York indicted former Marine Daniel Penny on manslaughter charges for his involvement in the death of Jordan Neely.

Though the exact charges against Penny have not yet been revealed, sources told Fox News that the grand jury “indicted him on charges of criminally negligent homicide and second-degree manslaughter.” He had been previously arrested by authorities for second-degree manslaughter.

Neely had a history of mental issues and often frequented the station as a Michael Jackson impersonator. He also had an active warrant for his arrest for felony assault. Per CBS News:

Police sources say around 2:30 Tuesday afternoon, Neely was allegedly throwing trash, yelling at passengers and acting erratically on the F train at the east Houston and Lafayette street station.

Things quickly escalated when the 24-year-old tried to subdue him by using what appears to be a chokehold.

CBS2 has learned Neely was homeless, had a history of mental illness, and had an active warrant out for his arrest for a felony assault.

Neely’s family has called on Daniel Penny to be hit with murder charges.

In a series of videos released by Penny’s lawyers thus past Sunday, the ex-Marine outlined he had been plunged into a “scary situation” when Neely entered the subway car, allegedly screaming and threatening to kill people.

“The man stumbled on, he appeared to be on drugs, the doors closed, and he ripped his jacket off and threw it down at the people sitting next to me at my left,” Penny said.

“I was listening to music at the time, and I took my headphones out to hear what he was yelling,” he continued. “The three main threats that he repeated over and over again were ‘I’m going to kill you,’ ‘I’m prepared to go to jail for life’ and ‘I’m willing to die.’”

Though Penny stands at 6’2″, Neely still stood taller than him and allegedly “terrified” other passengers with his violent rhetoric.

“There’s a common misconception that Marines don’t get scared. We’re actually taught one of our core values is courage, and courage is not the absence of fear but how you handle fear,” he said. “I was scared for myself but I looked around. There was women and children. He was yelling in their faces saying these threats. I just couldn’t sit still.”

Penny further disputed claims he held Neely in a chokehold on the subway floor for 15 minutes.

Does anybody know the origin of the 15 minute claim?

 

[jmdrake]

Choking a guy past the point of being limp and unresponsive might be something that a psychopath/cop-like personality might do if he thinks that he has a chance to do it/get away with it/get praised for it.

I don't want these personalities to be emboldened past the point of reasonableness.

And I don't like this manufactured credibility of being a "marine".

We don't want more of where that type of thinking will go.......

And the part in bold is what I don't have the answer to. I know Neely wasn't choked for 15 minutes. It was at most 7 minutes but most likely 3 to 5. I know that Penny put Neely in a "recovery" position. What I don't know is how long Penny kept Neely in the choke after he was out.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Does anybody know the origin of the 15 minute claim?

Freelance journalist and witness Juan Alberto Vázquez recorded video of the incident.

The chokehold lasted for several minutes and at least three minutes were recorded on video.[16][17] Vázquez told NBC New York the chokehold lasted for 15 minutes, while also telling CNN that "the two men were on the floor for about seven minutes" and that he "started recording about three or four minutes after the chokehold began".[18][19] In a widely cited Facebook post containing his video of the incident, Vázquez also wrote that the chokehold lasted for 15 minutes.[20]

An onlooker warned the ex-marine, saying, "You're gonna kill him now."[21] After the chokehold, the onlooker said, "He's all right. He ain't gonna die."[2] Vázquez said that Neely was moving and defending himself during the chokehold, and Vázquez did not believe that he would die.[22] Neely was taken to Lenox Hill Hospital, where he was pronounced dead; according to some sources, he died on the subway car's floor.[23]

On May 11, 2023, it was announced that the ex-marine would be charged with second-degree manslaughter. On June 14, 2023, he was officially indicted by a grand jury.[24] If convicted, he faces between five and 15 years in prison.[25][26]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Jordan_Neely

 

[Anti Federalist]

Well, regardless of what happens to Penny, the damage the Marxists wanted to do has been done.

I'm not a "certified" instructor by any means, but I have people all the time, through word of mouth, approach me to get some basic instruction on armed self defense and the legalities of it.

I can no longer in good faith say that you should try and intervene if you can, to prevent harm to innocent people.

Unless it is you, or an immediate loved one, under imminent threat, move along as quickly as you can, see nothing say nothing.

Not your circus, not your monkeys.

Which is, of course, what the Marxists want: to further atomize and isolate you and make you feel utterly alone.

But right now, it's more important to stay out of their GULAGs as much as you possibly can.

 

[sparebulb]

Well, regardless of what happens to Penny, the damage the Marxists wanted to do has been done.

I'm not a "certified" instructor by any means, but I have people all the time, through word of mouth, approach me to get some basic instruction on armed self defense and the legalities of it.

I can no longer in good faith say that you should try and intervene if you can, to prevent harm to innocent people.

Unless it is you, or an immediate loved one, under imminent threat, move along as quickly as you can, see nothing say nothing.

Not your circus, not your monkeys.

Which is, of course, what the Marxists want: to further atomize and isolate you and make you feel utterly alone.

But right now, it's more important to stay out of their GULAGs as much as you possibly can.

I agree with every point you've made here.

Unfortunately for Penny, he's entered a Kafkaesqe twilight zone where much of his defense will probably be disallowed by the People's Court and minutia such as how many minutes he choked the guy will be endlessly debated when it really doesn't matter to the law if this guy died easily from a small amount of choking.

And the rabid marxists will be whipped into a frenzy by the State media.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I agree with every point you've made here.

Unfortunately for Penny, he's entered a Kafkaesqe twilight zone where much of his defense will probably be disallowed by the People's Court and minutia such as how many minutes he choked the guy will be endlessly debated when it really doesn't matter to the law if this guy died easily from a small amount of choking.

And the rabid marxists will be whipped into a frenzy by the State media.

I am going to follow these two cases closely.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...e-subway-stabbing-death-of-Devictor-Ouedraogo

 

[jmdrake]

I agree with every point you've made here.

Unfortunately for Penny, he's entered a Kafkaesqe twilight zone where much of his defense will probably be disallowed by the People's Court and minutia such as how many minutes he choked the guy will be endlessly debated when it really doesn't matter to the law if this guy died easily from a small amount of choking.

And the rabid marxists will be whipped into a frenzy by the State media.

Actually it DOES matter how long the choke was on and more importantly how long after Neely was not responsive that the choke was on. It gets to the point of whether or not there was a reckless disregard for human life.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

Would it have been better and easier if he had a gun and just shot the guy? I remember hearing long ago it is better for a person if having to defend themself in court to have shot a person than to have stabbed them.

Is the intent to indoctrinate good Samaritans to not help?

 

[Anti Federalist]

NYC Man’s Face Slashed After He Broke Up Subway Fight: The ‘Last Person to Deserve This’

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/202...-up-subway-fight-last-person-to-deserve-this/

Gideon Moncrieffe was attacked on the NYC subwayGoFundMe
AMY FURR17 Jun 2023294
3:51
Forty-four-year-old Gideon Moncrieffe received a large gash on his face after he intervened during a reported altercation on a Brooklyn train on May 10.

According to a New York Post Saturday article, an ex-convict is accused of attacking Moncrieffe and cutting into his face.

While speaking with the Post, Moncrieffe said the moment he saw what was happening all he could think about was the incident with Jordan Neely.

Neely was the New York City homeless man who was allegedly ranting at subway riders on May 1 before former Marine Daniel Penny put him in a fatal chokehold while trying to restrain him, according to Breitbart News.

Meanwhile, Moncrieffe said he did not want someone else to be killed or injured during the incident, which happened on the southbound C train.

During the ride, Moncrieffe noticed a man named Sean Lewis arguing with an older drunk man, who fell down onto the floor.

When Moncrieffe asked Lewis if he was all right, Lewis allegedly shoved him.

Moncrieffe said he tried to tell Lewis that although he did not know him, he felt love and respect towards him.

“He then said to me, ‘Yeah you don’t know me, but I’m going to make sure you remember me,’” Moncrieffe told the outlet, adding he moved away from him and later felt someone touch his shoulder. When he turned around, he realized it was Lewis.

The suspect said, “Thank you,” and then slashed Moncrieffe, the victim alleged.

An image shows Moncrieffe with the huge scar running down the side of his face, narrowly missing his eye. Next to the photo appears to be an image of the suspect in the case:


“So happy his eye wasn’t damaged. Kudos to the Good Samaritan,” one social media user replied to the Post‘s story.

“God knows we’re on our own,” another person commented.

Moncrieffe did not get a glimpse of the weapon used, but he was able to yell at fellow passengers to remain on the train because he was afraid the suspect would hurt someone else if they ventured out onto the platform, where the alleged slasher was by that time.

Thanks to surveillance footage recorded at the station, Lewis was arrested eight days after the encounter.

The Post report continued:

Moncrieffe learned his alleged attacker had recently been released from jail without bail by Judge Dale Fong-Fredrick — four days after he had been arrested and charged with strangulation, assault, harassment, and other counts stemming from an arrest on April 10th, after he allegedly choked his girlfriend and threatened her with a knife.

Lewis had been previously been arrested for shoving his girlfriend into a window in January and was also cuffed for misdemeanor assault after attacking an employee at a homeless shelter in August 2022, but he took a plea deal and was convicted of disorderly conduct in November, according to a law enforcement source.

The suspect has been arrested nine times since 2016 for criminal activity. Following the subway incident, Lewis was indicted on several counts of felony assault. The Post also noted that Judge Patrick Hayes Lewis set the suspect’s bail at $7,500.

Meanwhile, felony assaults have continued rising across Democrat-run New York City, Breitbart News reported April 4. The outlet has extensively covered slashing incidents in the area.

On June 9, Facebook user Evita Turquoise Robinson wrote of the attack on Moncrieffe and said,”To know Gideon Emmanuel Moncrieffe is to know a selfless giver. Full stop.”

She also called him the “last person to deserve this.”

Several muscles in Moncrieffe’s face were severed during the slashing. Now, it is apparently difficult for him to smile, laugh, or cry without enduring pain, he told the Post.

 

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1672335901005840385

 

[Anti Federalist]

No CHARGES For Jordan Williams
In this video I discuss the latest update in the Jordan Williams case now that the grand jury has refused to indict him for an incident on the subway. I explain why I agree with the grand jury as well as why I think this shows some bias against the Penny case.
https://odysee.com/@actualjusticewarrior:2/no-charges-for-jordan-williams:6

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