No Longer Supporting

[Korey Kaczynski]

If you don't understand, I don't know how to explain it - it just comes from common sense and basic logic. I do what I'm told at work, because I want my paycheck. I like paying my bills with it, and buying nice things, and having fun. I follow government rules because if I don't, I will face censure in the form of fines, jail, or a loss of privileges (such as to drive, if I get too many DUI's). As a volunteer in a grass roots campaign, I am neither being rewarded with payments, nor forced through law to abide rulings by anyone else.

Arbitrary authority structures are an enemy.

If you're a volunteer, membership is not compulsory. Which is obvious. Of course, he doesn't have to belong to the group, but let's face facts with facts: organization improves the ability of people working together to achieve their common goals.

 

[Quantumystic]

We are all gathering under Ron Paul. There are people within this movement that I dislike. But when it comes to promoting RP, I will be at their side.

Here, Here!

While I've been fortunate to have yet to run into anyone that's really annoyed me here, IF I did... it would have NOTHING to do w/ my support of Dr. Paul.

I'd simply have to knock them out (so I wouldn't have to listen to them) until the day to vote for RP.

 

[Bryan]

I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

That is a fair position- only you can decide if any group is a good fit for you. It may work for others but that doesn't matter-- the great thing about freedom.

Regardless, sorry to hear about the problem.

 

[Erazmus]

I think it's easy to see that this group on the RonPaulForums are level headed and easy going people that stand for principle, integrity, and liberty. Clearly, if someone finds a Ron Paul supporter on the street that seems like an ass, all one has to do is come here to realize there are tons of us that aren't that way.

Welcome back.

 

[Bob Cochran]

Clearly, if someone finds a Ron Paul supporter on the street that seems like an ass, all one has to do is come here to realize there are tons of us that aren't that way.

I reserve my right to be an a$$ when it serves me.

Liberty, you know.

 

[Spirit of '76]

Have they actually incorporated the group? If so, it must have a board of directors and an official org structure. If it has, then the board of directors is responsible for setting down who can incur debts. Generally the board itself must pre-approve any such expenditures. All the leaders have to do is control the board, which is easy to do. At that point, again, it's not a "grass roots" thing anyway. If that is not the case, then the group cannot incur debt, as it is not a legal entity.

I really don't know if the group has been incorporated or not. I was just stating the impression I got from the message from the group posted in this thread:
http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=3197

Even if the group is not legally liable for debts that individual members incur on behalf of the group, surely we must admit that refusing to pay debts taken on the name of the group is hardly the best way to build community support and good will for Dr. Paul's campaign.

I'm not in SLC, as you know , so my input on this is just based on what I read here. And based on that, I don't think it's unreasonable to get the consent of the group before taking on debt in the group's name.

That said, I also don't think an authoritarian hierarchy is necessary for such a group to be productive. That may or may not be the case here; I don't know.

ps. You get my email with that URL?

 

[mdh]

Think capitalism. Don't like the other product on the market? Find a competitor, or become one! <3 Capitalism.

 

[mdh]

I really don't know if the group has been incorporated or not. I was just stating the impression I got from the message from the group posted in this thread:
http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=3197

Even if the group is not legally liable for debts that individual members incur on behalf of the group, surely we must admit that refusing to pay debts taken on the name of the group is hardly the best way to build community support and good will for Dr. Paul's campaign.

I'm not in SLC, as you know , so my input on this is just based on what I read here. And based on that, I don't think it's unreasonable to get the consent of the group before taking on debt in the group's name.

That said, I also don't think an authoritarian hierarchy is necessary for such a group to be productive. That may or may not be the case here; I don't know.

ps. You get my email with that URL?

Yepp, I did - I'm having other folks look at it before I come back to you with our ideas. The only thought that came to my mind was that maybe the blue on the right was too light? Dunno, I'm the least artistic among us.

 

[Spirit of '76]

Yepp, I did - I'm having other folks look at it before I come back to you with our ideas. The only thought that came to my mind was that maybe the blue on the right was too light? Dunno, I'm the least artistic among us.

More input is great.

Just remember that my skills are limited. :o If anyone has technical advice on how to accomplish something, I'm all ears.

 

[Quantumystic]

More input is great.

Just remember that my skills are limited. :o If anyone has technical advice on how to accomplish something, I'm all ears.

What's the techie issue?

 

[ronpaulitician]

My interpretation of meetup groups:

They are NOT officially affiliated with the Ron Paul campaign, and as such can ignore some of the campaign finance laws that are in place.

They are basically groups of individuals who want to pool their creative and financial resources in order to promote the cause of liberty.

All kinds of individuals will be part of these groups. Most will contribute to the cause, while some will hinder the cause. Likewise, most meetup groups will contribute to the cause, while some will hinder the cause.

At my own local meeting, some things were said that I took offense at. In hindsight, I should've spoken up, and addressed the issue to make sure that others didn't take enough offense at them to leave the cause behind.

I'm sure most of us are not experienced with these kind of things, and I'm sure issues will come up, but we must always remember that, although we all have different viewpoints on many of the issues and have different opinions as to how to promote our own views, we are all individuals willing to give up our time (and money) to help get Dr. Paul elected.

 

[Spirit of '76]

What's the techie issue?

Just some web design/css stuff. I'm still learning. There's no clearly defined issue yet. It just depends on what kind of feedback I get.

More info will be forthcoming.

 

[The Dane]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

That is good news

The SLC group might be more of a top-down thing. It can be quite efficient if people can still have a good time in a structure like that. Also when a group reaches a certain size, it needs more and more authorithy and top-down control, because everything else will be a huge mess. Im sure that you know some people in that group who needs to be told how to do the things in order to be efficient.

I dislike this kind of thing too, about the volunteer work that i sometimes do for a certain organisation, but i have to admit that the organisation is working in this way. It could be working better, i think, but thats it... Its not up to me to change that structure at this point.


I think the small self-organising groups are most efficient.
A structure of groups-within groups is the best. The campaign HQ is the top boss, and the meetup leaders are the second level. So if you cant deal with them, make a small new meetup group yourself. (As many other here recommended).

You guys are all in the same boat, and im cheering for you from the other side of the big ocean...

 

[beermotor]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

Just start your own man.

Ultimately, who cares - it isn't some meetup group's version that is winning hearts and minds, it is The Message. Period.

But, you need to settle down and keep things in perspective. Even Nietzsche advocated being cheerful and carefree. Have you read the Tao, Lao Tzu? "Do that which consists in taking no action." And let the good stuff happen.

 

[BLS]

I didn't read all of this because it's entirely too long.

BUT...in the event that no one mentioned this to the original poster, I'd like to offer some advice.

Pull up your skirt and do WHATEVER it takes to help Dr. Paul get elected.

 

[DjLoTi]

Whenever a group of diverse Americans get together... watch out. lol

Think of 'The Real World'

That's why I have trouble finding really good friends... people are so diverse...

As for starting your own meetup group, that's not such a bad idea, especially if others like you were also turned off by the way the group was being handled.

Utah is kind of an important state, so, I'd hope that in some way, the good message gets out in a good way.

 

[slantedview]

Reading that other post, I can understand how you'd have a disagreement with your meetup group or maybe become upset with them (they supposedly booted you, of course).

I'd say just keep this in mind. The meetup groups are NOT official, and are not wholly representative of Dr. Paul. It sucks that you would consider not supporting Dr. Paul because you had a disagreement with others on the best way to support him. Do you see how ridiculous that is? It's not Dr. Paul's fault that your meetup group might be a dictatorship. Sometimes well intentioned people just get carried away...

If you don't like the meetup group, then screw 'em. Just continue supporting Dr. Paul in whatever way feels best for you.

 

[AgentSmith]

Its quite ironic how many little dictators have crawled out of the woodworks and taken over bits and pieces of this so called 'revolution'

 

[mdh]

Its quite ironic how many little dictators have crawled out of the woodworks and taken over bits and pieces of this so called 'revolution'

Yeah... always happens. Welcome to politics.

 

[Swmorgan77]

Come on man, I'm in that group. You know there are those of us doing our best and have nothing to to with things you are upset about, and who have in fact been targeted by the same individuals. If you want out I understand but please don't sabotage our efforts.

I am genuinely sorry to see you go.