No Longer Supporting

[Bob Cochran]

I dont see how the leaders of the meetup group can hold UtahApocalypse from the street himself with a few freinds. That dosent add up.

Well...that's Mormon country, and they are used to thinking they can control what people do and don't do.

And people let them.

 

[beermotor]

Here's my take on it:

The Salt Lake City meetup group wanted to create organization to better coordinate amongst its members and to reduce the chances of agent provocateurs (a very real phenomenon) causing damage to the Ron Paul grassroots campaign by utilizing the technique of black propaganda. The original poster in question was angered/upset at such organization, preferring that people campaign in a decentralized fashion, probably for ego reasons. Staying in the group was frowned upon by the SLC organizers, who removed him from the meetup group due to their desire to not artificially inflate their numbers.

After being removed, the OP took it personally and projected his anger upon the entire Ron Paul campaign, and threw a tantrum.

Now, how close am I to the truth?

If this is true, the SLC group sounds lame in the extreme. Come on people, quit taking yourselves so seriously. Meetup is a social thing, not the fucking Hitler Youth. If you need to take it to the next nerdy level, form a PAC or whatever. Jeez.

Of course, this in no way excuses Mr. Tantrum. Seriously man, get a grip.

 

[Korey Kaczynski]

As far as i understood UtahApocalypse, the problem is that the leaders of the meetup group wants to control too much for him.
This is a very common problem in voluntary work.

The solution is to go a bit on the sideline, and get together with someone likable with the same understanding. (no matter who is right or wrong).

I dont see how the leaders of the meetup group can hold UtahApocalypse from the street himself with a few freinds. That dosent add up.

Everyone wants to be "individuals" and do their own thing. Problem is, that leads to only a few people doing anything of value.

 

[kylejack]

Everyone wants to be "individuals" and do their own thing. Problem is, that leads to only a few people doing anything of value.

That statement is totally against what Ron Paul and most libertarians believe about society.

 

[Korey Kaczynski]

If this is true, the SLC group sounds lame in the extreme. Come on people, quit taking yourselves so seriously. Meetup is a social thing, not the fucking Hitler Youth. If you need to take it to the next nerdy level, form a PAC or whatever. Jeez.

Of course, this in no way excuses Mr. Tantrum. Seriously man, get a grip.

The SLC group sounds decent; organizing for a cause is far more convenient than having it be random people do whatever they want.

 

[Korey Kaczynski]

That statement is totally against what Ron Paul and most libertarians believe about society.

Which is why corporations have explicit hierarchies, as does government.

EDIT: When unifying for a cause, leaders have to emerge to provide direction and order. Otherwise, nothing gets done. That's how it is.

 

[ElGreco]

The topic creator fails on so many levels. I laugh.

 

[kylejack]

Which is why corporations have explicit hierarchies, as does government.

EDIT: When unifying for a cause, leaders have to emerge to provide direction and order. Otherwise, nothing gets done. That's how it is.

Ron Paul's life and voting record are impeccable. Lew said it on June 9: "Ron Paul will be running an impeccable campaign." What has the enemy got other than to subvert Ron Paul's campaign management infrastructure? If a group member can't handle receiving simple instructions from campaign headquarters, what are they going to do when it really gets tough? If they can't handle following a simple infrastructure to be accountable to, then they're saying they can't really handle following the US Constitution, which is about freedom. The US Constitution is not about being a law unto ourselves where we can trash the life, liberty, and property of others.

I'd be pretty pissed if they said that to me.

 

[AlexAmore]

I thank God for the heroes of our past who could stand up and not flinch in the face of adversity. Martin Luther King comes to mind. If Martin had the attitude of the OP, I would fear for our well-being of our black friends. If our forefathers had the attitude of the OP, we would be pledging allegiance to the king.

 

[mdh]

Which is why corporations have explicit hierarchies, as does government.

Except that corporations pay their employees to follow their bosses, and government forces you to follow it at the end of a rifle.
Volunteers are neither paid nor forced.

 

[Spirit of '76]

What I got out of the message from SLC meetup is that they are opposed to individual members taking it on themselves to place the group in a position where the group is incurring financial debt without the prior consent of the group or Dr. Paul's official campaign staff.

That doesn't sound so unreasonable to me. If someone objects to that, they should just avoid the group and do what they can to support Dr. Paul on their own.

 

[Korey Kaczynski]

I'd be pretty pissed if they said that to me.

And I bet the OP was pretty pissed when he read what I had to say. Your point?

 

[Korey Kaczynski]

Except that corporations pay their employees to follow their bosses, and government forces you to follow it at the end of a rifle.
Volunteers are neither paid nor forced.

And how does that change anything?

 

[mdh]

What I got out of the message from SLC meetup is that they are opposed to individual members taking it on themselves to place the group in a position where the group is incurring financial debt without the prior consent of the group or Dr. Paul's official campaign staff.

That doesn't sound so unreasonable to me. If someone objects to that, they should just avoid the group and do what they can to support Dr. Paul on their own.

Have they actually incorporated the group? If so, it must have a board of directors and an official org structure. If it has, then the board of directors is responsible for setting down who can incur debts. Generally the board itself must pre-approve any such expenditures. All the leaders have to do is control the board, which is easy to do. At that point, again, it's not a "grass roots" thing anyway. If that is not the case, then the group cannot incur debt, as it is not a legal entity.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

 

[theblatanttruth]

So, what does some meetup group's standards, good or bad, have to do with an individual's support of Ron Paul? I'm lost here.

 

[theblatanttruth]

I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group

See, was that so hard?


Welcome back

 

[mdh]

And how does that change anything?

If you don't understand, I don't know how to explain it - it just comes from common sense and basic logic. I do what I'm told at work, because I want my paycheck. I like paying my bills with it, and buying nice things, and having fun. I follow government rules because if I don't, I will face censure in the form of fines, jail, or a loss of privileges (such as to drive, if I get too many DUI's). As a volunteer in a grass roots campaign, I am neither being rewarded with payments, nor forced through law to abide rulings by anyone else.

Arbitrary authority structures are an enemy.

 

[wwycher]

Start your own meetup group.

Screw those officious bastards. A resentment and a coffee pot is all it takes to start a new meetup group. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I have had to deal with this to some degree in my meetup as well. Just do what you want to do and don't tell them. We must be patient with people that want what Dr. paul is talking about but have never actually lived by those principles.
It's going to take some time to change habits of corpratism and forcing your will on people. Hang in there dude, don't give up on freedom.

 

[Korey Kaczynski]

Sorry, for going off. I am just very upset about the way these people are trying to run the meetup. The reason I was turning away from the campaign was they were stating that everything they have said is from campaign HQ. I have confirmed this is not the case. Campaign HQ wants a loose grassroots effort and not a hierarchy. They want the meetup as a way for like minded individuals to come together and share ideas and resources. The group here is NOT following that correctly. I will still support Ron Paul but I will not be active in this local group, which limits my efforts.

It was fairly obvious, at least to me, that they meant taking orders from campaign as more of a, "do what the campaign would want us to do." The campaign doesn't give orders to anyone outside of the campaign, but they have made suggestions, such as asking people to stop emailing news outlets en masse.