Newbie buying a gun

[Revolution0918]

ruger 9mm....hollow tip...nuff said

 

[Time for Change]

Your bogus proclamation = MONUMENTAL FAIL!

.

I gotta hand it to you...
you certainly are one fucking riot of a hard headed son of a bitch.

 

[Conservative Christian]

"A basic handgun will get you through tough challenges. If I was going to have only one firearm in the home for family protection, it would be a handgun."

Massad Ayoob
World's leading authority on handguns for personal defense and law enforcement use

..

 

[Time for Change]

"A basic handgun will get you through tough challenges. If I was going to have only one firearm in the home for family protection, it would be a handgun."

Says the guy with tens...maybe hundreds of thousands of rounds down the pipe...something the average person cannot afford to do in both time and money.

Why are you so obsessed with Massad Ayoob?
Ever seen his skills in person?

 

[Conservative Christian]

Says the guy with tens...maybe hundreds of thousands of rounds down the pipe...something the average person cannot afford to do in both time and money.

Why are you so obsessed with Massad Ayoob?
Ever seen his skills in person?

^I'm not obsessed with Mr. Ayoob, rather you're obsessed with boring us all with your lack of knowledge and losing arguments.

Ayoob's advice was given in an article specifically written for beginners and inexperienced shooters looking for a first firearm for HOME defense.

Ayoob has trained tens of thousands of shooters at all skill levels, and in his professional opinion based on decades of experience and study, the handgun is noticeably easier for BEGINNERS and INEXPERIENCED individuals to use than a shotgun or rifle. ESPECIALLY for small-framed individuals like women and children.

As an acknowledged international expert on the handgun for self-defense and law enforcement use, Mr. Ayoob's advice is FAR more credible than that of an internet non-expert like yourself.

Ayoob has written several bestselling books on handgun personal defense, which have been published by major companies in the gun book publishing industry, and he has written thousands of articles for major gun magazines and websites over the years.

Now why don't you give us YOUR firearms training and gun book/article publishing credentials.

.

 

[Time for Change]

Back off asshat.
I tried to let this go, let you have the last word and let you be the hero in your own mind, but you continue to let the insults fly. Your self-centered arrogance is truly astounding.

I am by no means an ignorant person, quite the contrary.
If asking a question and receiving tangential rhetoric and insults in response is considering losing, well, I guess you win.
Go celebrate…you are the man.

Come on down, I will buy you a beer or a milkshake or something your god permits so you can celebrate this enormous internet victory of epic proportions.
I will get you a pass to the training facility so you can show us all just how inept we are.

You have proven without a doubt that no person should ever entertain the thought of protecting his or her home with such pathetic weapons as the shotgun, revolver or anything other than an s/a pistol. We should all use the 3” semi auto pistol in .45 because that platform is superior to everything out there and we will absolutely not survive using anything else. GOT IT. We all get it. There is no reason to debate because the person in the magazine said so and you have confirmed it, so that is law.
You win.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t give a shit about your religious ranting, I don’t care that you can read magazine articles and proclaim yourself an expert because you read said articles
and I certainly do not give any credibility to your proclamation of being a certified instructor / range officer. (I have met MANY RO’s that were sporting an aptitude just north of paint, so you will have to find some other way to demonstrate credibility.)

You can earn people’s respect by treating people with respect; you cannot demand it simply because you said so.

Posting my credentials here is irrelevant; as, you will work tirelessly to discredit anything I post, so why bother. You have already proven that nobody on the planet is capable of what you can do with a handgun and you have Massad Ayoob and his articles to back your capabilities up, so we don’t have a leg to stand on now do we. You are the best authority out there on home defense and we are nothing more than amateurish simpletons if we do not submit to your authority on the subject.

To date, based on the majority of your previous posts; you are nothing more than an abrasive troll consistently spewing insults, "Monumental Fail", calling people “Straw man” & “liars”, claiming the other members are incapable of comprehension, etc.
You are consistently rude to the other members and your meme is getting old.
Your actions lead to speculation that your participation on this forum is a divisive maneuver, intended to distract rather than make any progress in supporting liberty.
I am surprised that the mods don’t already have you under the microscope.

If you insist on attacking me, if it makes you feel like a better person, well…go right ahead…maybe somebody else on this forum won’t have to deal with your ignorant bullshit for a while and we can focus on the preservation of our nation while you focus on trying to measure your pecker against mine.

Enjoy your moment of glory

 

[Zeeder]

well, as a fellow newbie, I've asked family, friends, this board, and a host of others and for the most part there are several universal truths.

1. Most reccommend a shotgun for home defense with Buckshot. I have a remington 870 pump. It sits by my bed with a knox stock for lessen recoil.
(I load mine with 1 0z birdshot because the neighbors are real close. This is the only exception to the rule that I have found. Buckshot and slugs can kill your neighbors. A birdshot within 20 feet, is still devastating.)

2. If your going to get a handgun, know how to shoot it. This may seem obvious, but lots of people get caught up in debates about whether you should have a .44 magnum, .357, 9mm etc......
I have a .22 buckmark camper. It's the only handgun I've ever shot. People laugh, but none volunteer to get shot by it. I know how to use it and feel comfortable with it.
The gun you know how to use is the best for defense. But the best gun for home defense is the shotgun.

 

[JoshLowry]

well, as a fellow newbie, I've asked family, friends, this board, and a host of others and for the most part there are several universal truths.

1. Most reccommend a shotgun for home defense with Buckshot. I have a remington 870 pump. It sits by my bed with a knox stock for lessen recoil.
(I load mine with 1 0z birdshot because the neighbors are real close. This is the only exception to the rule that I have found. Buckshot and slugs can kill your neighbors. A birdshot within 20 feet, is still devastating.)

2. If your going to get a handgun, know how to shoot it. This may seem obvious, but lots of people get caught up in debates about whether you should have a .44 magnum, .357, 9mm etc......
I have a .22 buckmark camper. It's the only handgun I've ever shot. People laugh, but none volunteer to get shot by it. I know how to use it and feel comfortable with it.
The gun you know how to use is the best for defense. But the best gun for home defense is the shotgun.

Good post.

I won't be volunteering to step out in front of that .22 either.

 

[youngbuck]

(I load mine with 1 0z birdshot because the neighbors are real close. This is the only exception to the rule that I have found. Buckshot and slugs can kill your neighbors. A birdshot within 20 feet, is still devastating.)

I'd recommend to not use birdshot. A safe compromise is to use #4 shot. Better penetrating capability than birdshot (i.e. #6 or 7 1/2) but still small enough to be mostly stopped by your typical wall.

 

[pcosmar]

Enjoy your moment of glory

I lol'd




p.s.currently disarmed,
Still considered dangerous.

 

[john_anderson_ii]

You're the only one giving bad advice.

Speaking as an NRA-certified Pistol Instructor and Range Officer, who has been shooting firearms since the 1960's, I certainly don't need to go to my local range and "talk to tactical instructors".

Whoopy fucking doo. Why don't you mingle with NRA certified long shot and rifle instructors? Your confession of being a "Pistol Instructor" only emphasizes your bias, it does nothing more. You are a pistol instructor, therefore you see only pistols as a tool. When the tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every obstacle in the world as a nail. That's true for carpenters, "NRA Certified" firearms instructors, and even mechanics and heating and air guys. You aren't even bringing any sort of insight to the table. All you are doing is reiterating your role as a pistol instructor without ever looking at an alternative. Not only does that make you self serving, it makes you absolutely ignorant of, and incapable of seeing "The Big Picture"

I know several tactical instructors as PERSONAL FRIENDS, being a member of one of the largest private outdoor ranges in my state, and a Range Officer to boot

Are these personal friends members of the largest private outdoor range of your state and also pistol instructors? Do they honestly believe they could defend their lives with a pistol, while someone like me hunted them with a shotgun? If they do, that's just borderline narcissism, it's pretty insane. I could take two or three mortally wounding hits from a .45 ACP, gut shot, even hear tshot takes about 8 seconds to bleed out, and still live long enough as a walking dead to kill with a 00Buck or a 7/8 oz slug. I'd have more impact energy (3200 lb/ft) and more range (125 yds), than a .45 ACP (1,060 lb/ft @ 10yds). The comparison isn't even close. If I am moderately trained and stalking you with a long gun, while you are expertly trained and defending with a sidearm, 9 times out of 10 I will come out on top, not because of any skill, but just because the 7/8 oz. slug or 00 Buck is just so devastating, you won't ever get the chance to be walking dead. A long gun can outdistance and out power a sidearm at every turn. If this weren't true, why would we ever resort to long guns in the first place?

Massad Ayoob and Colonel Jeff Cooper are recognized as two of the leading firearms self-defense experts in world history, and both recommend semi-automatic pistols as a first defensive firearm.

I'm sure Cooper and Massad are leading firearms experts. However, I'm damn near 100% sure they wouldn't ever, as in never ever, take their 9mm, .40, or .45 sidearm up against my 12GA shotgun. That would just be suicide for them. Cooper and Avoob are learders in sidearm tactics. Not long gun tactics. I can guarantee that neither of them would recommend bringing a .45 1911 into a fight with a 12 GA Mossberg. There's no way the .45 holder can win in that fight. Even if the .45 holder has the draw, and fires first, there is still a huge risk that the .45 hollow point will kill the 12GA wielder only after he's fired several heavy, fast moving projectiles at your location.

And just because a tactical instructor can get on target "really fast and accurately" with a shotgun, does NOT mean an INEXPERIENCED BEGINNER can!

Uh, yes they can. I'm not known for being a "NRA firearms instructor". I'm known for being the "gun guy" within my community. With my simple, inexpensive, 12 GA Mossberg conversion, I've taught more housewives how to shoot that cannon than I can count. Everyone I taught from the 120lb housewife to the 75 lb adolescent has become proficient. When you are holding a 12GA shotgun in your hands, loaded with a 7/8" slug, nominal proficiency will outweigh expert marksmanship with a .45 ACP every single time. That is something you can bet on. (3200 lbs of impact in an arm Vs. 1060 lbs of impact the mid solar plexus from a well aimed and choreographed shot will have much of the same effect. Unfortunately, my method doesn't require the hire of an NRA certified instructor.)

When a beginner is looking for a self-defense firearm, they should NOT look for a gun that the "experts" can shoot "really well", they should look for one that THEY can shoot really well!

Well, duh! Experts shoot pistols and really long range rifle competitions. The rest of us average Joe's carry Glock 23's and keep a pump-action shotgun at home. These tools are simple, basic, and they get the freaking job done with minimal instruction.

And a semi-automatic PISTOL makes MUCH better sense for a rank beginner than a shotgun.

Now please step AWAY from your video game console, and get some REAL WORLD experience with firearms, Mr. Rambo!

I'd like to offer that I'm an intelligence Marine. A third generation Marine who consciously chose to fight in OIF for the kicks. I was just so bored pounding out patterns and code. So, you think you have some sort of REAL WORLD experience to give to me? Well, I've spent 12 months in Iraq, 6 in Afghanistan, a little while in Jordan, while my next stop is Syria. By all means, school me. Tell me and my kind to step away from the game console.

No, no. We don't we don't have any real world experience with firearms or death I suppose that's your job now.

 

[ns_661]

"chose to fight in OIF"
Is that Operation Iraqi Freedom?

 

[Conservative Christian]

To date, based on the majority of your previous posts; you are nothing more than an abrasive troll consistently spewing insults, "Monumental Fail", calling people “Straw man” & “liars”, claiming the other members are incapable of comprehension, etc. You are consistently rude to the other members and your meme is getting old. Your actions lead to speculation that your participation on this forum is a divisive maneuver, intended to distract rather than make any progress in supporting liberty. I am surprised that the mods don’t already have you under the microscope.

^HYPOCRITE ALERT!

ROTFLMAO!

Your immature rant is amusing to say the least, especially considering that you've referred to me in this thread as an "asshole", an "asshat" and a "son of a bitch"---all of which are CLEAR VIOLATIONS of forum rules---whereas I have NOT used any vulgar language whatsoever when addressing you.

Your childish name-calling clearly indicates that my comments regarding you are SPOT ON.

And if you don't like being called a liar, you need to stop telling lies.

.

 

[Conservative Christian]

I'd like to offer that I'm an intelligence Marine. A third generation Marine who consciously chose to fight in OIF for the kicks. I was just so bored pounding out patterns and code. So, you think you have some sort of REAL WORLD experience to give to me? Well, I've spent 12 months in Iraq, 6 in Afghanistan, a little while in Jordan, while my next stop is Syria. By all means, school me. Tell me and my kind to step away from the game console. No, no. We don't we don't have any real world experience with firearms or death I suppose that's your job now.

^A classic example of the "appeal to authority" logical fallacy---"I'm a Marine with combat experience, which makes me an expert on firearms, including their use in home self-defense."

True tales from the trenches, which prove that being a Marine with combat experience doesn't qualify one as a firearms "expert":

A sailor from Gering, Neb., was killed in Iraq, when he accidentally was shot in the face by a Marine cleaning his gun....Moreno's uncle, Nebraska State Patrol Investigator Peter Moreno, said Friday military officials informed Moreno's parents a Marine accidentally killed him. "The unit sat around in a circle cleaning weapons for their next assignment. The gun went off and struck David apparently in the face. He was killed instantly," he said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20030719-0640-iraqcasualty-moreno.html

A Marine from northern Alabama was in his barracks in Iraq listening to country music on his laptop when he was accidentally shot to death by a member of his unit, his family said.

http://www.dailyhome.com/news/2005/as-state-1224-0-5l23w0023.htm

A Camp Pendleton Marine has been sentenced to two-years in prison after he accidentally shot his best friend to death in Iraq....Twenty-two-year-old Lance Cpl. Matthew Richard pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter after he shot Lance Cpl. Steven Chavez in the neck on March 14, 2007....Richard had said he accidentally discharged a shotgun in a barracks room as he tried to expel shells from it.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/01/ap_accidentalshooting_011009/

Lance Corporal Russell P. White, who deployed to Afghanistan about six weeks ago, was shot in the head and died late Sunday at Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul, his father, Gregg White, said.

White said military officials told him another Marine was attempting to holster a 9 mm handgun, apparently after cleaning it, when it discharged a bullet that struck Russell White in the head.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/rpwhite.htm

 

[Conservative Christian]

Whoopy fucking doo. Why don't you mingle with NRA certified long shot and rifle instructors? Your confession of being a "Pistol Instructor" only emphasizes your bias, it does nothing more. You are a pistol instructor, therefore you see only pistols as a tool. When the tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every obstacle in the world as a nail. That's true for carpenters, "NRA Certified" firearms instructors, and even mechanics and heating and air guys. You aren't even bringing any sort of insight to the table. All you are doing is reiterating your role as a pistol instructor without ever looking at an alternative. Not only does that make you self serving, it makes you absolutely ignorant of, and incapable of seeing "The Big Picture"

Actually, I DO mingle with "NRA certified long shot and rifle instructors". My range has rifle, shotgun and pistol ranges---thus we attract members who are skilled with a variety of small arms.

We have a fellow who's an NRA-certified rifle instructor, who competes in long range rifle matches. When it comes to a home defense firearm for a beginner with no firearms experience, he recommends a SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOL.

I strongly recommend that you heed your own advice in regard to "seeing "The Big Picture"".

.

 

[Conservative Christian]

I'm sure Cooper and Massad are leading firearms experts. However, I'm damn near 100% sure they wouldn't ever, as in never ever, take their 9mm, .40, or .45 sidearm up against my 12GA shotgun. That would just be suicide for them. Cooper and Avoob are learders in sidearm tactics. Not long gun tactics. I can guarantee that neither of them would recommend bringing a .45 1911 into a fight with a 12 GA Mossberg. There's no way the .45 holder can win in that fight. Even if the .45 holder has the draw, and fires first, there is still a huge risk that the .45 hollow point will kill the 12GA wielder only after he's fired several heavy, fast moving projectiles at your location.

Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel Jeff Cooper (deceased) saw combat in WWII and Korea.

He was an internationally recognized expert on small arms, particularly the rifle, shotgun and handgun as they applied to military use and civilian self-defense.

His firm recommendation for a first home defense firearm for rank beginners was a semi-automatic pistol.

Your entire post is one enormous straw man argument, since we're not discussing what one should bring to a gunfight with someone wielding a shotgun.

Last time I checked, we were clearly discussing what firearm an individual with NO FIREARMS EXPERIENCE WHATSOEVER, should buy for HOME DEFENSE.

.

 

[Conservative Christian]

Are these personal friends members of the largest private outdoor range of your state and also pistol instructors? Do they honestly believe they could defend their lives with a pistol, while someone like me hunted them with a shotgun? If they do, that's just borderline narcissism, it's pretty insane. I could take two or three mortally wounding hits from a .45 ACP, gut shot, even hear tshot takes about 8 seconds to bleed out, and still live long enough as a walking dead to kill with a 00Buck or a 7/8 oz slug. I'd have more impact energy (3200 lb/ft) and more range (125 yds), than a .45 ACP (1,060 lb/ft @ 10yds). The comparison isn't even close. If I am moderately trained and stalking you with a long gun, while you are expertly trained and defending with a sidearm, 9 times out of 10 I will come out on top, not because of any skill, but just because the 7/8 oz. slug or 00 Buck is just so devastating, you won't ever get the chance to be walking dead. A long gun can outdistance and out power a sidearm at every turn. If this weren't true, why would we ever resort to long guns in the first place?

Sorry Rambo---but it appears that I need to remind you AGAIN that we are discussing the best HOME DEFENSE firearm for an ABSOLUTE BEGINNER.

I hate to impinge on your Macho Man Marine fantasies about shootouts at 125 yards and "stalking" people with a long gun---but I believe when the OP stated he wanted a gun for HOME DEFENSE, he was looking for something that would protect him against an intruder who has entered or is attempting to enter his home.

The average self-defense shooting occurs at a distance of about 21 feet, and self-defense shootings that occur INDOORS often occur at distances noticeably shorter than that.

And as I mentioned before, people need protection in places besides their home. A handgun can be easily concealed in your vehicle or on your person. If you decide to go to a convenience store or all-night restaurant in the wee hours of the morning, I don't think the owners and the cops will appreciate you bringing your 12-gauge in.

When an armed robber pulls out his gun in a store/restaurant, I sincerely doubt he's going to let you run out to your vehicle and grab your shotgun. It's times like that when a pistol in your pocket is worth a thousand times more than a shotgun outside in your vehicle.

.

 

[Conservative Christian]

Uh, yes they can. I'm not known for being a "NRA firearms instructor". I'm known for being the "gun guy" within my community.

I'm sure you're a legend in your own mind.

With my simple, inexpensive, 12 GA Mossberg conversion, I've taught more housewives how to shoot that cannon than I can count. Everyone I taught from the 120lb housewife to the 75 lb adolescent has become proficient. When you are holding a 12GA shotgun in your hands, loaded with a 7/8" slug, nominal proficiency will outweigh expert marksmanship with a .45 ACP every single time. That is something you can bet on. (3200 lbs of impact in an arm Vs. 1060 lbs of impact the mid solar plexus from a well aimed and choreographed shot will have much of the same effect. Unfortunately, my method doesn't require the hire of an NRA certified instructor.)

Of course, nobody knows for sure just how "proficient" they really are until they're in a life-or-death situation where they actually have to use that "cannon".

Your "120lb housewife to the 75 lb adolescent" might just end up being "proficient" enough to get that shotgun snatched from their hands and end up getting shot dead with it themselves.

As a part of their training, Massad Ayoob and other world-class firearms instructors will often give demonstrations showing people how incredibly fast a determined intruder can close distance and seize a person's self-defense firearm.

No matter what a person's size, the hard fact remains that a pistol can more easily and quickly be brought to a firing position than a shotgun, and the pistol is considerably easier to handle during rapid fire and when directed at multiple targets, which must be given serious consideration due to the dramatic increase in home invasions by multiple intruders in recent years. Pistols also provide faster and more accurate follow-up shots.

Unfortunately, your method works better in conversation and movies than it does in real-life situations.

.

 

[Time for Change]

^HYPOCRITE ALERT!

Seriously?
Feel better now troll?

I love being called a liar and a "hypocrite".
Go ahead, look up every bible thumper negative name in your sacred book, and let me have it.
You surely are a model representative of christianity...makes me want to run right out and join your church so I can be just as righteous as you and be surrounded by people like you ... all day every Sunday.

[Tip: goto "Quick Links", "Your Profile", then "Statistics", "Find all posts by *yourname*" and you can see the many other threads where you have insulted forum members with your high and mighty bullshit. That tool is publicly available...so we can see your history too.]

I am flattered that you have such a deep hatred for me and working to discredit me makes you feel good...keep it coming.
I already conceded to your notion that you are the man, what more do you want?
Shall I get down on my knees and beg for your approval?
Shall I get down on my knees and beg your god for forgiveness?
Shall I put money in your constantly circling church offering plate?
Shall I beg for you to train me?
Will that make you feel better?

What is the point of all your spewing here? What do you want everyone to do to make you feel better and stop with the nonsense?

Seriously, post what you are after...what's your goal?

When you have satisfied your fetish and cleaned up a bit... lets get back to the reason this forum exists...

What have you done to advance / protect our freedoms today?
Nothing? Big Surprise!

What's it going to take to get you to cut the shit and prove you are a supporter of liberty rather than a troll?

Maybe glocktalk or 1911 forums are more conducive to your mindset and need for argument...just a thought.

 

[pcosmar]

Lost me at NRA, and all credibility went out the window. Just another gotminer.
The NRA has never done anything for my rights, just the opposite.

I will never own or hold a firearm till TSHTF, and I pick one up from where it fell.
In that day, you had best be beside me.
You don't want to be in front of me.
I won't allow you behind me.

And before anyone starts with the keyboard commando bullshit. Pay your money and run the check.
My files are 3 inches thick.