Newbie buying a gun

[fisharmor]

It's a MYTH that "Revolvers don't jam". Anybody who believes that is showing their inexperience with revolvers.

Several things can cause a revolver to jam, and when they do, the gun usually has to be taken to a gunsmith to be fixed. Not a good thing when you're in a life-or-death situation.

Show me some studies on the matter and I'll change my mind about it. All it takes for a semiauto to jam is a loose-wristed shooting style. Yes, a revolver may jam and it will be defunct at that point. But how often does this happen? Perhaps as often as semiautos have equally catastrophic failures, like broken springs?

If there is any gun that you would recommend a new person buy and use for defense without shooting at least a hundred rounds first, I'm all ears. No company makes a gun that you should trust out of the box. But they're like computer components: you're going to know early in the use of it whether or not it's a dud. If you buy a revolver and put 500 rounds through it, you can be sure that there isn't a manufacturing error that's going to kill you.

Whereas most semi-auto jams can be quickly cleared within seconds by the operator.

Also, the massive 12-13 pound trigger pull of the revolver can be quite difficult for many women, children and elderly people to deal with. It can also be difficult for able-bodied but inexperienced males.

Yet the reason why a revolver sleeps next to me is because of a woman with rheumatoid arthritis. There is no cartilage in her wrists. It is actually physically possible for her to pull back a slide but it is not possible for her to practice it, as it leaves her in intense pain. Yet she can pull a 14 pound trigger for an entire shooting session.

So the weak& elderly argument for a light trigger evaporates when you consider the slide. If you're going to practice anything, practice pulling the trigger.

Moreover, a 14 pound trigger can be fixed. You can take a revolver's trigger down to 8 or 9 pounds by swapping out parts, and this doesn't require gunsmithing: only some basic mechanical aptitude.

Whereas your typical semi-auto has a trigger pull of perhaps 5 to 6 pounds, which is much easier to handle and still quite safe.

Yet this is done with a preset or single-action trigger, which adds complexity to the manual of arms. True DAO pistols have nothing on revolvers for ease of trigger. Also, revolvers almost always have the option of shooting single-action.


Look, I'm not against semi-autos. I carry one.
I just know which of my handguns new shooters prefer to shoot, I know which of my handguns new shooters understand more readily, I know which of my handguns my wife enjoys shooting, I know which of my handguns my daughters are going to shoot first, and I know which of my handguns has made every GLOCK, 1911, and XD fanboy who shot it stop and reconsider their position.

Of course, they always stick with their original position, but I'll always be confused by the attitude that there is only one gun option that is correct. There are options out there, and revolvers aren't just an option, they're a viable option. They have drawbacks just like semiautos have drawbacks.

Telling people not to investigate guns they may really like is counterproductive. If everyone in the USA liked shooting SAAs, and everyone in the USA owned at least one, would we be less free or more free as a result? Would there be more crime or less?

Regarding 38 special stopping power, I'd carry regular 38 special over 380 any day, but I don't think anyone doesn't mean +p anymore. 38+p is plenty. Unless you want to add uncontrollable recoil to the menu of things for aged women to deal with....

 

[Conservative Christian]

Show me some studies on the matter and I'll change my mind about it.

Here's an entire book by the USA's leading authority on the use of handguns for self-defense and law enforcement, which proves the clear tactical superiority of the semi-automatic pistol over revolvers, to anybody but willfully blind revolver fanboys:

The Semi-Automatic Pistol in Police Service and Self-Defense

by Massad Ayoob

http://www.amazon.com/Semi-Automati...030747?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248569334&sr=8-13

 

[Conservative Christian]

YouTube - EPIC REVOLVER FAILURE

 

[Conservative Christian]

All it takes for a semiauto to jam is a loose-wristed shooting style.

The following video destroys the old canard that all semi-autos will jam constantly if limp-wristed. Of all the semi-autos tested, only the Glock had a significant problem:

YouTube - Another Limp Wrist Test

 

[Time for Change]

Only polymers have issues with limp wristed shooting.

 

[rmodel65]

Just small enough to hide away in either a compartment in the wall or something close to the bed to keep it hidden.

Otherwise I'd just get a shotgun.

here you go, AOW shotty

 

[Conservative Christian]

Only polymers have issues with limp wristed shooting.

Not all polymers.

Yes, Glock has problems, which is why I don't recommend Glocks.

However, if you watch the "Another Limp Wrist Test" video I posted above, you'll see that the polymer Springfield XD operated just fine.

.

 

[Conservative Christian]

here you go, AOW shotty

Nice little piece, but TERRIBLE for beginners with virtually no shooting experience, which is what the OP says he is.

I've fired the Serbu, and it kicks like a mule. Definitely NOT a gun for novices.

A .45 ACP 1911 with 3" barrel is just what the doctor ordered. The .45 has proven stopping power, and with a 3" barrel and the right holster, it can be concealed in most pants pockets without a problem.

.

 

[devil21]

Anyone that questions Glock reliability should google the Glock Stress Test video.

 

[Conservative Christian]

Only for men that have girly wrists. I have two Glocks (19 and 20) with many rounds through and the worst was a stovepipe on weak WWB once on the 19. One time out of thousands of rounds in two different 3rd gen Glocks. I don't want to turn this into a arfcom post but damn, seems like all the Glock bashing I hear is from people that don't actually own Glocks.

Anyone that questions Glock reliability should google the Glock Stress Test video.

I'm a member at one of the largest private outdoor ranges in my state, and I've fired multiple Glocks in every single caliber that they come in.

I'm also an NRA-certified Range Officer, who has personally witnessed more people firing Glocks than you'd ever care to know.

So I'm sorry, but I flatly REFUSE to drink the Glock Kool-Aid. No semi-auto on earth KABOOMS more than Glocks, and they perform poorly in limp wrist tests.

Watch the Glock in the following video malfunction REPEATEDLY:

YouTube - Another Limp Wrist Test

 

[youngbuck]

I have two Glocks, one fairly new, and another with over 5k rounds through it. Never a hiccup. I've intentionally tried to limp wrist it, and never got it to malfunction. Even my little niece and nephew shot it just fine (10 and 12 yrs old). Looks to me like they were either using some under-powered reloads, or it was something weird with it being a compensated model.

 

[Conservative Christian]

I have two Glocks, one fairly new, and another with over 5k rounds through it. Never a hiccup. I've intentionally tried to limp wrist it, and never got it to malfunction. Even my little niece and nephew shot it just fine (10 and 12 yrs old). Looks to me like they were either using some under-powered reloads, or it was something weird with it being a compensated model.

^A very common logical fallacy---"Because I own two of them and they work fine, that means they ALL work fine."

Unfortunately, there are MILLIONS of Glocks that have been produced over the years, so you have no idea how the 99.99% of Glocks you've never fired actually perform.

So you're basing your defense of the Glock on a totally unprovable assumption.

Here are even more Glocks failing the limp wrist test:

YouTube - Limp Wrist Test

 

[devil21]

It never occurs to Conservative Christian that way more people own and shoot Glocks than pretty much every other manufacturer out there on a consistent basis (checked LEO holsters lately?), so yes he probably will witness more failures with Glocks.

If more people drive Chevy than Ford, is it safe to say that more Chevy cars break down than Ford cars, and therefore Chevy cars are more failure prone? Glock owners as a whole rave about their reliability and Im one of them. If your Glock isn't firing reliably then you should look in the mirror for the fix. OK maybe shooting a Glock has a "curve"? But that's not the gun's fault. The operator should learn his weapon. I can post a shit-ton of videos of guns other than Glocks KBing. I bet I can post more videos of everything else than you can of Glocks.

/arfcom

Btw, what do videos of people purposely misfiring guns have to do with anything?

 

[Conservative Christian]

It never occurs to Conservative Christian that way more people own and shoot Glocks than pretty much every other manufacturer out there on a consistent basis (checked LEO holsters lately?), so yes he probably will witness more failures with Glocks.

If more people drive Chevy than Ford, is it safe to say that more Chevy cars break down than Ford cars, and therefore Chevy cars are more failure prone? Glock owners as a whole rave about their reliability and Im one of them. If your Glock isn't firing reliably then you should look in the mirror for the fix. OK maybe shooting a Glock has a "curve"? But that's not the gun's fault. The operator should learn his weapon. I can post a shit-ton of videos of guns other than Glocks KBing. I bet I can post more videos of everything else than you can of Glocks.

/arfcom

Btw, what do videos of people purposely misfiring guns have to do with anything?

Sorry, but you're still shooting blanks with your weak and illogical arguments.

EVERY SINGLE Glock tested in those two films malfunctioned and failed the limp wrist test. None of the other brands failed so miserably.

It logically follows that if EVERY Glock in the tests failed, that's definitely something to be concerned about. If just one of the Glocks had failed, then your baseless assumptions might have had some merit.

The fact that you don't understand the purpose and importance of limp wrist tests, proves that you're not very knowledgeable about handguns.

You're basing your defense of Glocks on blatant fanboyism, rather than unbiased research and testing.

And who said anything about Kabooms? They have nothing to do with limp wrist tests. Glock owners always get real defensive about the Glock's proven proclivity for Kabooms, to the point where they think people are talking about them, when they're actually not.

But since you brought Kabooms up, here's a very typical one:

YouTube - Kabooom

 

[Time for Change]

Ok, since it has been thrown out there, what is this recent fascination with limp wristed shooting?

Why is it so important that a gun function when used in an awkward position with absolutely no intent of properly aiming?

This to me is not the intended use of the weapon and somewhat irrelevant and completely irresponsible.

Why discharge your sidearm without actually targeting anything?

Yes this is a good example of stovepipes, FTE, etc, but does represent a real world application unless you are a gangbanger throwing lead down range just for suppression, spray and pray, trying to hit anything by accident and claiming intent or just trying to discredit a design.

I personally don't care for the polymers, have shot many, but think Tupperware belongs in the fridge not protecting my family. I don’t like the striker mechanism or the two-week long trigger, but that is me.
There are people that swear by them and people that train with them and trust their very existence on them.
Properly maintained, held and discharged they perform their intended function…send a projectile downrange at a specifically chosen target.

To each his own.

That is the beauty of America, for now, we are free to pick and choose what we like and deploy it to serve its purpose...protection of our loved ones.

I don’t care what opinions and elbows you guys go on about, if a person selects a sidearm that truly fits their hands, takes the time to practice and become proficient with what they choose, what's the problem. They can do what needs to be done because they took the time to learn and perfect the use of the tool that fits them.

There is NO one weapon that is perfect for everyone and we are better off for it.

So, with all due respect, can we please respect the fact that personal preference may not be a collective agreement and limit the bickering?
It is really counter productive and serves to further confuse people trying to make a decision.

I am certain we can all agree that it truly makes no difference what one selects…if there is no training even the most widely accepted form of defense will be ineffective.
Knives, sticks, bats, chains, shotgun, j-frames, polymers, spitballs, etc.
If you have never used it, or it does not fit you, you will suck.

 

[devil21]

Ok, since it has been thrown out there, what is this recent fascination with limp wristed shooting?

Why is it so important that a gun function when used in an awkward position with absolutely no intent of properly aiming?

This to me is not the intended use of the weapon and somewhat irrelevant and completely irresponsible.

Thank you, exactly my point. So what if the gun malfunctions when it's purposely being fired in a manner that is neither realistic nor responsible? When confronting a home invader is the homeowner with a Glock going to hold and fire the pistol like the guy in the video? Hell no. So what difference does "limp wristing" really make? Limp wristing is a shooter problem, not a gun problem. Seems like it's just finding a flaw in the gun for sake of attacking the manufacturer. That's just as "fanboy" as me defending the platform that I have used exclusively without issue. Shoot the gun like it was designed and the "problems" disappear. But if not for the limp wristing meme and the "Glocks go Boom" meme, Glock haters wouldn't have anything else to cling to since the guns reliably function better than practically everything else on the market. Glock owns the auto pistol market. It's not because they are junk. If you don't have some haters then you arent doing it right!

And that's not even getting into the other things that cause failures in all kinds of guns. Customizations, poor maintenance, weak ammo, etc. All of which are common issues with Glock pistols. Too many changes to the internals, a whole lot of rounds through wearing down the components, etc.

Lemme guess, Conservative Christian is a 1911 fan, right?

 

[Time for Change]

Lemme guess, Conservative Christian is a 1911 fan, right?

Aw man...don't pick on the 1911...it is an american tradition and one hell of a platform.
he he he ...I shot some 1911's years back that were a PITA and didnt like them at all because the ones I was testing were jam-o-matics and inaccurate like you wouldn't believe.
Then a year or so ago I shot the kimber SIS.
What a dream sidearm. It's all about getting what you pay for I guess.
I bought two...a 4" and a 5" and daily carry the 4".

There is all this talk of diminished capacity with the 1911 and 7 or 8 shot mags, but hell, If I cannot dispatch a threat in 8 shots, maybe I am in over my head anyway and need a more appropriate tool, such as a rifle.
Yes a lot of platforms afford the double stack mags, double the capacity in 9mm and I see the benefit of those clearly, but with my build, my training and ability to read and avoid unnecessary problems, the 1911 and a single stack of 8 .45's is an appropriate option.

Now to contradict myself...
If TSHTF and zombies are after my kids, I may very well revise my thinking, but at that point concealment is not an issue, multiple threats may present frequently, etc.
I may OC a hicap .40 or 9 along with the rifle that meets the task...

And I still stand with the shotgun (of whatever flavor you prefer) as an appropriate late night, just woke the hell up home protection device.

 

[devil21]

Wasn't bashing on the 1911. Just that the Glock bashers tend to be 1911 fans and tend to fit the same description. It's like they follow a blueprint when attempting to discredit the Glock platform.

 

[Time for Change]

 

[Time for Change]