Newbie buying a gun

[fisharmor]

Now say that 50 times and forget the idea of relying on a loaded chamber indicator.

I gotta dissent with this. The LCI on my GLOCK is nice. But it is the fourth pistol I've owned.
It is also the pistol I carry. If you are planning on graduating from simple home defense to never-leave-home-without-it defense, then the LCI is pretty handy. BUT IT IS NOT TO BE RELIED ON.

If you're really not into guns, then it's all about the 4" Ruger GP100.
In my opinion that's the handgun which packs the maximum firepower into the most durable package with the least complicated manual of arms and the ability to put the maximum number of rounds on target without much training.
It is also my bedside gun.

People will tell you that you need more than six shots. This is probably true. But anything that holds more than six rounds is going to be more complicated to operate.

If you want to go semi auto, don't screw around with anything else, get a GLOCK. Preferably a GLOCK 19. I say that because GLOCKs are also fairly uncomplicated, the 19 carries 15 rounds, it's small enough to carry after society crumbles, parts are abundant, and as noted, 9mm does do some damage. (There's a reason no serious military in the world doesn't use 9mm Luger. It works.)

Guns are very much like cars. You can get one that will get the job done, but you won't know how good the other ones are until you've tried them. And whereas certain models have an amount of appeal to everybody, individual people are going to take a shine to individual models.
Oh, and both will kill you if you're not paying attention.

Kudos on taking the class. It's the first step.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Ok, I've never owned a gun but I'm looking to buy one for home protection. I've always thought that I needed on, just never got around to buying one.

I've never fired a gun and most likely will not be spending much time on the range, just enough to be prepared to use it if someone gets into my house at night. I've signed up for a 3 hour beginners course where they'll be showing me all of the basics of loading and firing a weapon, I'll also be able to try out a few different styles of weapons.

My question is, what sort of gun is best for someone new to guns for home defense. I want something small so that it's well hidden and easy to fire. I also recall a friend telling me about his gun and how it had an easy visual for when it had the safety on and when it was loaded, that would be a plus.

The guy at the gun shop recommended a 9mm.

I'm going to go against the grain here, based on what you said.

Best choice:

.357 magnum revolver with a 4 inch barrel and Crimson Trace laser grip sights.

Smith and Wesson first brand choice, Taurus next, Rossi third.

Small enough to conceal easily, proven stopping power in the .357 chambering, easy to practice and plink with using cheap .38 ammo, (.38 Special ammo can be used in .357 revolvers, the only difference between the two is length of cartridge) manageable felt recoil, no safeties, magazines or charging a round required and with the self contained laser grip sights, you will be spot on out to about 25 yards and unquestioned reliability and durability.

A well made .357 is, well, bullet proof.

Look to spend $350 to $1000 depending on make, model and condition (if used).

 

[Conservative Christian]

I don't consider a 1911 small. I've got three, two government models and a colt commander. Even the Commander isn't small by handgun standards. Of course "small" is a relative term. So I guess a 1911 is small compared to a Desert Eagle but not small compared to 99% of semi-auto handguns out there.

But I agree that a .45 has adequate stopping power (for a handgun) and the 1911 is easy to shoot. But a truly SMALL .45 would NOT be easy to shoot.

Unfortunately, you don't own a .45 with a 3" barrel, so you really can't comment on one.

A 3" Kimber and a good pocket holster, can be concealed without a problem in the front pocket of a pair of cargo pants/shorts---or any pair of pants made of fairly thick material for that matter.

The pocket holster makes it appear as if you have a wallet or daytimer in your pocket.

Also, a 3" Kimber is smaller than A LOT of the semi-autos on the market.

 

[Conservative Christian]

I'm going to go against the grain here, based on what you said.

Best choice:

.357 magnum revolver with a 4 inch barrel and Crimson Trace laser grip sights.

Smith and Wesson first brand choice, Taurus next, Rossi third.

Small enough to conceal easily, proven stopping power in the .357 chambering, easy to practice and plink with using cheap .38 ammo, (.38 Special ammo can be used in .357 revolvers, the only difference between the two is length of cartridge) manageable felt recoil, no safeties, magazines or charging a round required and with the self contained laser grip sights, you will be spot on out to about 25 yards and unquestioned reliability and durability.

A well made .357 is, well, bullet proof.

Look to spend $350 to $1000 depending on make, model and condition (if used).

A .357 Magnum is a TERRIBLE choice for an inexperienced shooter who has never owned a handgun.

Excessive recoil, excessive muzzle blast, excessive muzzle flash, and not as easy to conceal as you claim.

Unquestioned reliability?! BWAHAAAAAHAAAAA!

 

[Anti Federalist]

A .357 Magnum is a TERRIBLE choice for an inexperienced shooter who has never owned a handgun.

Excessive recoil, excessive muzzle blast, excessive muzzle flash, and not as easy to conceal as you claim.

Unquestioned reliability?! BWAHAAAAAHAAAAA!

Meh, opinions and elbows...

A terrible choice for a first time gun owner that is looking to defend the home is a finicky autoloader, like the Glock, or a 1911 variant that has to be set at Condition One at all to times to be worth a damn.

 

[pcosmar]

A .357 Magnum is a TERRIBLE choice for an inexperienced shooter who has never owned a handgun.

Excessive recoil, excessive muzzle blast, excessive muzzle flash, and not as easy to conceal as you claim.

Unquestioned reliability?! BWAHAAAAAHAAAAA!

Really?
I should have known that 35 years ago.
A 357 was the first handgun I fired as a kid. At 15 years old (approx 70lbs) I had no problem handling it, or hitting the target. Though that one was a single action.
I'm still fond of single action.
but they are not for everyone.

 

[Time for Change]

Meh, opinions and elbows...

A terrible choice for a first time gun owner that is looking to defend the home is a finicky autoloader, like the Glock, or a 1911 variant that has to be set at Condition One at all to times to be worth a damn.

What's wrong with that?
I carry a kimber SIS 4" in C1 all day every day IWB @ 3:00 and it is comfortable.
At night, looking over and seeing those sights glowing back at me is pretty reassuring as well.
Mine is not finicky at all, but I ran it through the paces, as one should for any sidearm, before ever placing any confidence in it.

I agree that the wheel gun is a simple and reliable option, but it is a bit bulky width wise when compared to the 1911.
CT Grips are a plus on any platform. If I didnt have the ambi safety on mine and wasn't too darned lazy to switch out the right side lever, I'd have them on my SIS.

Another plus for the revolver is the double action. If you get a misfire, simply pull the trigger again to rotate the cylinder to another round -vs- 1911 (or similar) where you need to rack the slide and hope for a good lockup in the heat of the moment. It's not that big of a deal when you know the platform, but that is a pratice issue. If you prepare yourself for the situation "it aint so bad".


Now back to the OP...
At night, when something goes bump, you will have cob webs in your head.
Don't doubt it, you will.
If you can overcome that grogginess, great, but it's likely that you'll have issues accurately bringing ANY sidearm to bear in that state...especially if you don't practice like crazy.

I personally think a shotgun would be more appropriate in this situation..
At least give it a bit of consideration, and be completely honest with yourself.

 

[Anti Federalist]

What's wrong with that?
I carry a kimber SIS 4" in C1 all day every day IWB @ 3:00 and it is comfortable.

At night, looking over and seeing those sights glowing back at me is pretty reassuring as well.


I personally think a shotgun would be more appropriate in this situation..
At least give it a bit of consideration, and be completely honest with yourself.

Nothing at all wrong with it.

I carry a Berreta 92 quite a bit, along with a Model 686 SW and sometimes a Sig P230.

Thing is, I've owned all those guns for roughly 20 years now and shot them all extensively.

The OP made it very clear that he was a "newbie" and that the primary function was home defense.

I stick to it, a quality wheelgun is the best choice for a first timer's home defense weapon, although I'd agree that a good 12 gauge is an excellent choice as well..

 

[Conservative Christian]

I stick to it, a quality wheelgun is the best choice for a first timer's home defense weapon, although I'd agree that a good 12 gauge is an excellent choice as well..

Meh, opinions and elbows...

Your proclaiming it to be true, doesn't make it true.

 

[Conservative Christian]

Really?
I should have known that 35 years ago.
A 357 was the first handgun I fired as a kid. At 15 years old (approx 70lbs) I had no problem handling it, or hitting the target. Though that one was a single action.
I'm still fond of single action.
but they are not for everyone.

Yes, REALLY.

Have you ever fired a .357 Magnum with full-powered defensive loads, in a dark bedroom in the middle of the night?

I know a guy who did. By his own admission, he was blinded by the muzzle flash of the .357 for a good thirty seconds, and has permanent hearing damage to this day.

 

[pcosmar]

Yes, REALLY.

Have you ever fired a .357 Magnum with full-powered defensive loads, in a dark bedroom in the middle of the night?

I know a guy who did. By his own admission, he was blinded by the muzzle flash of the .357 for a good thirty seconds, and has permanent hearing damage to this day.

Really,
I have fired a great many weapons, Both day and night. I have discharged shotguns indoors.
I regularly fired a 303 british before the Army. (not a quiet gun)
Stood next to Artillery (155mm, 106 recoilless, Tow) as well as tanks. Often without earplugs.
I have had my ears ringing more than once.
I have also been to some LOUD concerts and danced in front of the speakers.
I have been close enough to explosions to be knocked down and heard the shrapnel ripping air above me.
I still hear the songbirds in the morning and the crickets at night.
My hearing is pretty good at 52 yrs old.

 

[Conservative Christian]

Really,
I have fired a great many weapons, Both day and night. I have discharged shotguns indoors.
I regularly fired a 303 british before the Army. (not a quiet gun)
Stood next to Artillery (155mm, 106 recoilless, Tow) as well as tanks. Often without earplugs.
I have had my ears ringing more than once.
I have also been to some LOUD concerts and danced in front of the speakers.
I have been close enough to explosions to be knocked down and heard the shrapnel ripping air above me.
I still hear the songbirds in the morning and the crickets at night.
My hearing is pretty good at 52 yrs old.

Good for you. Glad to hear (no pun intended ) that your ears have held up so well.

Unfortunately, a lot of people's ears aren't as "hardy" as yours.

Being an NRA-certified pistol instructor and range officer, I've been on a lot of firearms ranges and know a lot of people who shoot. I also know a lot of people who have SIGNIFICANT hearing damage caused by shooting.

Sorry, but your anecdotal evidence just isn't convincing at all.

 

[pcosmar]

Good for you. Glad to hear (no pun intended ) that your ears have held up so well.

Unfortunately, a lot of people's ears aren't as "hardy" as yours.

Being an NRA-certified pistol instructor and range officer, I've been on a lot of firearms ranges and know a lot of people who shoot. I also know a lot of people who have SIGNIFICANT hearing damage caused by shooting.

Sorry, but your anecdotal evidence just isn't convincing at all.

I never said that hearing protection is not a good idea.
However,
Any gun fired indoors is going to be loud. Even low flash powder is going to be bright in a dark room.
In an emergency (home defense) hearing protection is not going to be an option.
Reality. Deal with it.

 

[Conservative Christian]

I never said that hearing protection is not a good idea.
However,
Any gun fired indoors is going to be loud. Even low flash powder is going to be bright in a dark room.
In an emergency (home defense) hearing protection is not going to be an option.
Reality. Deal with it.

Sorry, but not all handgun cartridges are created equal when it comes to recoil, muzzle blast, muzzle flash etc.

.45 ACP, 9mm, .38 Special and other common self-defense rounds have nowhere near as much recoil, muzzle blast and muzzle flash as the .357 Magnum.

That makes them SUPERIOR to the .357 Magnum in a dark, enclosed space such as a bedroom.

The .357 Magnum is loaded up to an astounding 35,000 pounds per square inch, whereas the .45 ACP is only about 60% of that. The blast created by the incredible pressure of the .357 will take a huge toll on the ears of most human beings.

The muzzle flash of the .357 is also significantly greater than the other cartridges I listed, making the .357 an inferior choice when fired in the dark.

Deal with it.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Meh, opinions and elbows...

Your proclaiming it to be true, doesn't make it true.

Oh FFS, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest with an "official" instructor.

It's my opinion, so it holds very true, to me.

Your points about felt recoil and pressures are valid.

Guess what? I'll risk the blast and muzzle flash for stopping power. The 9mm and .38 are pretty anemic in that department.

The comparative complexity of a modern autoloader under the pressure of a life or death "shoot or no shoot" situation is a problem.

But the OP can take what he wants from this information and do what he thinks is best.

No need to get all huffy and pompous about it.

 

[Conservative Christian]

Oh FFS, I'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest with an "official" instructor.

It's my opinion, so it holds very true, to me.

Your points about felt recoil and pressures are valid.

Guess what? I'll risk the blast and muzzle flash for stopping power. The 9mm and .38 are pretty anemic in that department.

The comparative complexity of a modern autoloader under the pressure of a life or death "shoot or no shoot" situation is a problem.

But the OP can take what he wants from this information and do what he thinks is best.

No need to get all huffy and pompous about it.

But the .45 ACP is NOT "anemic" in the stopping power department.

And I'm NOT telling the OP what he should or must do. It's simple common sense that he's going to do what he wishes to.

However, if I wish to give him advice based on the personal experiences of seasoned shooters like myself---and the fellow I know who was blinded for at least thirty seconds and suffered permanent hearing damage, after firing a .357 in his dark bedroom in a self-defense situation---than I shall.

I'm not being "huffy and "pompous", you're merely being overly defensive. Alas, we live in the "age of the easily offended".

 

[jkm1864]

Meh, opinions and elbows...

A terrible choice for a first time gun owner that is looking to defend the home is a finicky autoloader, like the Glock, or a 1911 variant that has to be set at Condition One at all to times to be worth a damn.

I have a .357 revolver and I would not recommend one to a newbie. The problems with revolvers is the damn trigger. Revolvers have heavy triggers which can cause really bad problems with accuracy. I have one and unless You pull the hammer back You can't shoot squat with it. Now I am a good shot with a .45 I had but the revolver I have to cock the damn thing.....


As far as pistols I would just go all out and get a .45 but I wouldn't recommend that for home defense. If You wanted a weapon for home defense YOU NEED to get a home defense shot gun because You can't beat it. If You are not good at shooting and when the time comes You might miss so You need to get a shot gun...

I don't have a shot gun but I am a natural with pistols and I can generally hit a man sized target at 20 yards no problem if I know my gun. Notice how I said IF I KNOW MY GUN? The point is every gun is different. I had a 45 that shot a little more to the left so I would aim for the right side of the target to hit it. So if You don't want to get to know Your pistol then You need to get a shot gun point blank.

 

[fisharmor]

I have a .357 revolver and I would not recommend one to a newbie. The problems with revolvers is the damn trigger. Revolvers have heavy triggers which can cause really bad problems with accuracy.

Yet that is precisely why I brought it up.
New shooters aren't going to know a good trigger from a hole in the ground.
And as much as I hate to say it, a 12 lb trigger is pretty handy for people who may or may not be following rule #3 all the time.
Plus the 357 mag has other things to recommend it:

-You can shoot 38 special, a proven self-defense cartridge (carried by most law officers for most of the 20th century)

-You eliminate feed problems - any bullet type works all the time

-There is no drill for what to do to overcome misfires

-There are no stovepipes, jams, or loose mags

-The relevant operating mechanisms are all clearly visible and easy to comprehend - new shooters are going to understand the use of an ejection rod a lot quicker than figuring out a slide stop. Semi-autos are black L- shaped hunks of steel and plastic that go bang if you talk to them right. Revolvers are the guns for the everyman.

-A 357 Mag pistol will easily take medium game like deer - yeah, you could probably do it with 45acp too but nobody does. So it has some versatility to it.


Now I don't carry a revolver. This is because I don't think they are good for fighting. They're great for defense, but if you're in a situation where 6 shots don't do the trick, you're in way over your head if you haven't trained A LOT anyway.


OP, please bear in mind that shotguns do not bring any magical accuracy to the home defense situation. They do bring a hell of a lot of firepower. They do not make you hit. They make you miss with a lot more lead than you have in a pistol.

 

[Conservative Christian]

Yet that is precisely why I brought it up.
New shooters aren't going to know a good trigger from a hole in the ground.
And as much as I hate to say it, a 12 lb trigger is pretty handy for people who may or may not be following rule #3 all the time.
Plus the 357 mag has other things to recommend it:

-You can shoot 38 special, a proven self-defense cartridge (carried by most law officers for most of the 20th century)

-You eliminate feed problems - any bullet type works all the time

-There is no drill for what to do to overcome misfires

-There are no stovepipes, jams, or loose mags

-The relevant operating mechanisms are all clearly visible and easy to comprehend - new shooters are going to understand the use of an ejection rod a lot quicker than figuring out a slide stop. Semi-autos are black L- shaped hunks of steel and plastic that go bang if you talk to them right. Revolvers are the guns for the everyman.

-A 357 Mag pistol will easily take medium game like deer - yeah, you could probably do it with 45acp too but nobody does. So it has some versatility to it.


Now I don't carry a revolver. This is because I don't think they are good for fighting. They're great for defense, but if you're in a situation where 6 shots don't do the trick, you're in way over your head if you haven't trained A LOT anyway.


OP, please bear in mind that shotguns do not bring any magical accuracy to the home defense situation. They do bring a hell of a lot of firepower. They do not make you hit. They make you miss with a lot more lead than you have in a pistol.

Use of the .38 Special cartridge has been discontinued by MANY THOUSANDS of police and sheriff's departments over the last several decades. It is rarely used as a duty service pistol caliber by today's law enforcement (LE) agencies.

The cartridge was dubbed "The Widowmaker" years ago, by knowledgeable LE personnel who realized how many LEO's have died in the line of duty over the years, because of the .38's notorious lack of stopping power.

The .38's lack of stopping power was the primary reason the .357 was designed in the first place. LE agencies were looking for a more powerful replacement for the "weak sister" .38.

Major police studies going back to at least the 1950s, have documented the poor performance of the .38 cartridge in life-or-death situations.

 

[Conservative Christian]

It's a MYTH that "Revolvers don't jam". Anybody who believes that is showing their inexperience with revolvers.

Several things can cause a revolver to jam, and when they do, the gun usually has to be taken to a gunsmith to be fixed. Not a good thing when you're in a life-or-death situation.

Whereas most semi-auto jams can be quickly cleared within seconds by the operator.

Also, the massive 12-13 pound trigger pull of the revolver can be quite difficult for many women, children and elderly people to deal with. It can also be difficult for able-bodied but inexperienced males.

Whereas your typical semi-auto has a trigger pull of perhaps 5 to 6 pounds, which is much easier to handle and still quite safe.