New video released of police beating Kelly Thomas to death (graphic photo in thread)

[kylejack]

The Orange County DA is prosecuting it himself.

 

[kylejack]

Also, the DA says he is still considering charges against Wolfe, the first cop to hit Kelly.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Also, the DA says he is still considering charges against Wolfe, the first cop to hit Kelly.

Justice is served.

 

[osan]

The Orange County DA is prosecuting it himself.

No possible conflict of interest there. Nope.

All such cases should have a special prosecutor and fuck the locals. When those NYC cops murdered Amadou Dialo, Morgenthau's office prosecuted. I listened, blow by blow on WBAI and it became embarrassingly apparent that the Manhattan DA had NO interest in the case. And so naturally the murderers skated. The whole trial was a massive travesty put on for show purposes only, and not a very good effort at that; further evidence of the profound depth of the DA's contempt for the people of NYC. It was enough to make we hope that hell truly exists so that I can be there to torment them into eternity. There is nothing worse on the planet than a criminal operating under the impunity of the state imprimatur. Child molesters are as God himself in comparison with these filth. It appears the human race will indeed never learn its lessons.

 

[kylejack]

No possible conflict of interest there. Nope.

All such cases should have a special prosecutor and fuck the locals. When those NYC cops murdered Amadou Dialo, Morgenthau's office prosecuted. I listened, blow by blow on WBAI and it became embarrassingly apparent that the Manhattan DA had NO interest in the case. And so naturally the murderers skated. The whole trial was a massive travesty put on for show purposes only, and not a very good effort at that; further evidence of the profound depth of the DA's contempt for the people of NYC. It was enough to make we hope that hell truly exists so that I can be there to torment them into eternity. There is nothing worse on the planet than a criminal operating under the impunity of the state imprimatur. Child molesters are as God himself in comparison with these filth. It appears the human race will indeed never learn its lessons.

Well, I think this guy means business.

 

[GuerrillaXXI]

Why didnt we merely educate the British instead of fighting them when we declared independence?

Exactly.

I don't wish to seem cross, but many in the freedom movement badly need a reality check:

(1) Freedom is not something you beg and plead for. It's not something you try to get by "reasoning" with the power-mad. Freedom is something that has to be TAKEN. If you can only get freedom by begging for it, then you're not really free at all, since even if you're granted privileges in response to your begging, those privileges can be taken away by FORCE at any time. To use an analogy, a dog on a 50-foot leash isn't any more free than a dog on a 5-foot leash, since the dog on the long leash CAN be put on a short leash whenever its master decides to do so.

(2) The only way to take freedom is through (a) the implicit threat of force, (b) the explicit threat of force, or (c) the actual use of force.

(3) Force has to be either economic or physical. If a population can't win its freedom and guarantee justice through economic means (such as boycotts), then its ONLY hope is to use violence.

 

[Captain Shays]

Exactly.

I don't wish to seem cross, but many in the freedom movement badly need a reality check:

(1) Freedom is not something you beg and plead for. It's not something you try to get by "reasoning" with the power-mad. Freedom is something that has to be TAKEN. If you can only get freedom by begging for it, then you're not really free at all, since even if you're granted privileges in response to your begging, those privileges can be taken away by FORCE at any time. To use an analogy, a dog on a 50-foot leash isn't any more free than a dog on a 5-foot leash, since the dog on the long leash CAN be put on a short leash whenever its master decides to do so.

(2) The only way to take freedom is through (a) the implicit threat of force, (b) the explicit threat of force, or (c) the actual use of force.

(3) Force has to be either economic or physical. If a population can't win its freedom and guarantee justice through economic means (such as boycotts), then its ONLY hope is to use violence.

That was close to the sermons being preached from pulpits prior to the Revolunionary War

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Well, I think this guy means business.

Seriously.... What part about him means business? The fact that these officers BEAT A MAN TO DEATH and received only second degree murder charges? Or the fact that only TWO OUT OF SIX were charged? But since he is considering charges against another, he is suddenly for the people? Hardly the case. The public outrage is the only reason he said that. These cops will receive nothing more than slaps on the wrists, when they should receive the death penalty; as anyone else would for beating a man into a coma, and walking around the body speaking nonchalantly about your injuries/how it was the fight of your life. By the way, I do not have 46:00 to spend watching a tough talking prosecutor. If it wasn't for the 50,000 angry calls to his office he never would have held a press conference. Justice will never be served in this case. They beat this man in the head with their taser for Christ's sake. Anyone who feels a second degree murder charge is adequate, please elaborate.

 

[osan]

Well, I think this guy means business.

Do you think? Lets see: he begins with singing the praises of OC police. He then alerts us that they will not be prosecuting the other officers. He clearly and explicitly notes that Kelly Thomas was in fear for his life based on what Ramos threatened. That is assault, yet there were no assault charges on the litany. These earn him a significant credibility fail. Time, I suppose, will tell. I hope those two burn big time.

 

[kylejack]

Do you think? Lets see: he begins with singing the praises of OC police. He then alerts us that they will not be prosecuting the other officers. He clearly and explicitly notes that Kelly Thomas was in fear for his life based on what Ramos threatened. That is assault, yet there were no assault charges on the litany. These earn him a significant credibility fail. Time, I suppose, will tell. I hope those two burn big time.

Assault is a lesser included offense of murder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_included_offense. It's the same reason Cicinelli isn't charged with battery. Besides, murder is the big prize. The assault was probably a misdemeanor.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

I am willing to bet California has stipulations on the book stating when someone dies during the commission of a felony, it is first degree murder. Say if someone kicks in a person's door and takes the homeowner at gunpoint to rob him; the homeowner has a heart attack and dies, this would be first degree murder charges for the home invader. Anyone who planned this crime, would be charged with first degree murder. Even the "lookout" outside of the house, would be charged with first degree murder. The "getaway driver" would be charged with first degree murder. Every last one of the cops that did not stop this attack, but rather assisted in it, or even watched it occur, should be charged with first degree murder. Even if they charge and convict every officer on scene (which they have no plans on doing) for second degree murder, that is not justice. At least not in my eyes.

 

[kylejack]

Yes, the felony murder rule. Eligible felonies are arson, robbery, burglary, carjacking, train wrecking, kidnapping, mayhem, torture, rape, unlawful acts of sodomy, unlawful acts of oral copulation, forcible acts of penetration, and lewd acts with a minor.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Yes, the felony murder rule. Eligible felonies are arson, robbery, burglary, carjacking, train wrecking, kidnapping, mayhem, torture, rape, unlawful acts of sodomy, unlawful acts of oral copulation, forcible acts of penetration, and lewd acts with a minor.

Torture, you say?

 

[tod evans]

When I worked the ambulance crew in the Navy we had a rash of PCP OD's and those guys had the strength of 2 men....

We never ganged up on and tried to beat into submission any of those guys, not once!

First off KT was much smaller than every "cop" there, he was unarmed and pretty much unclothed....No boots specifically.

Getting away from all of the positioning surrounding this fiasco, it's just plain wrong!

There's been some kind of breakdown in morals/ethics/logic and even law for just one of these incidents to take place let alone repeatedly.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Getting away from all of the positioning surrounding this fiasco, it's just plain wrong!

There's been some kind of breakdown in morals/ethics/logic and even law for just one of these incidents to take place let alone repeatedly.

Exactly. I wonder if they will ever release why they were originally called to the scene in the first place. Tresspassing? Loitering? Suspicious person? This case leaves me at a loss for words sometimes.

 

[kylejack]

Torture, you say?

Yeah, that part piqued my curiosity too. Here's the definition in California law:

"Every person who, with the intent to cause cruel or extreme pain and suffering for the purpose of revenge, extortion, persuasion, or for any sadistic purpose, inflicts great bodily injury as defined in Section 12022.7 upon the person of another, is guilty of torture."3

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Yeah, that part piqued my curiosity too. Here's the definition in California law:

"Every person who, with the intent to cause cruel or extreme pain and suffering for the purpose of revenge, extortion, persuasion, or for any sadistic purpose, inflicts great bodily injury as defined in Section 12022.7 upon the person of another, is guilty of torture."

+rep. My laziness is getting a reputation of it's own. Seems like a hard case to prove; but if I were the prosecutor I would definitely have to point out the officer's first statements as he was approaching the man, as well as point out the excessive amount of times the taser was used. A picture of this man's disfigured face would be one of my key exhibits. No juror in their right "conscience" could consider this anything but. His screams and cries for his dad would echo that courtroom for days. Make no doubt about it, the jurors would be in tears. I really do believe this is defined as torture. Definitely about the most sadistic thing I've ever seen, and it could be argued that this beating was "revenge" for the victim's lack of respect for L.E.

ETA: And his intent is pretty clear cut from his first statements, as well as putting on his latex gloves.

 

[kylejack]

Well, part of the problem is that different people were doing different things. Ramos just created the deadly situation. Cicinelli did most of the punching.

 

[thoughtomator]

Then they're both murderers and ought to be convicted as such. First degree should be easily provable, this kind of thing doesn't happen in a vacuum and I would wager quite a bit that there is additional evidence waiting to be had to prove an established pattern of abuse by these cops.

 

[thoughtomator]

Then they're both murderers and ought to be convicted as such. First degree should be easily provable, this kind of thing doesn't happen in a vacuum and I would wager quite a bit that there is additional evidence waiting to be had to prove an established pattern of abuse by these cops.