Net Impact Of Delegate Push: Helpful Or Harmful?

[pinkmandy]

Sally- I thought you dropped out of the movement? Are you copying this thread, too?

It now requires login to even view the list of the threads. Is that to "hide" the strategies?

I already have complete copies of the entire thread, if it gets deleted.

I must say I was shocked to realize that the RP supporters who have impressed me so much, until just recently, have turned out to be no different than any other politicians who will do whatever they feel like to get what they want, based on various levels of rationalization.

Since no one seems to have discussed "coup" attempts with Dr. Paul, I have just sent an e-mail to him. I hope he gets it.

The purpose of my e-mail was to simply make Dr. Paul aware of what delegates may do "in his name" at the national convention vs. being surprised by a microphone in his face asking his opinion about some of his supporters having been ejected from the convention.

It is now up to Dr. Paul to determine what action he will take, if any.

Personally, I no longer care. I expressed my concerns and that's all anyone can do.

Time will tell whether my concerns were justified. If it turns out that my concerns were valid, the damage will have already been done.

Many of the people who have posted are not people I would ever invite into my home, so why would I care what they think, let alone "trust them" politically?

Ironically, I received an e-mail today to "Paulites" that was due to someone giving out my private e-mail address to others *without my permission*.

I indicated that since I didn't know which "type" of supporter, ethical or unethical, the person using RP's name as a reference was, I was not interested in donating to his campaign.

I no longer trust the RP movement to honor RP's values.

As a result, consider me an RP movement drop-out.

Good job spreading the message, everyone.

It would be more effective, if you agreed on which message you are spreading.

I won't be part of a "beat them at their own dirty politics" game. That is no change, whatsoever, from "politics as usual".

 

[torchbearer]

Sally- I thought you dropped out of the movement? Are you copying this thread, too?

Ew, I do love facts. Show me some more.
I see motive behind her flames. Do you see them too?

 

[pinkmandy]

Ew, I do love facts. Show me some more.
I see motive behind her flames. Do you see them too?

Oh, of course not. Whatever motive could that be? Sally is all about Dr. Paul. She's just looking out for him! Can't you tell?

 

[Sally08]

I can always count on pinkmandy to keep my threads at the top!

Um, why don't you ask me directly? I'm right here. Your last troll thread was quite enough for me. I know exactly what you are up to and have been up to. It's a joke. I play on your assanine threads because I find them funny...you sure do assume a lot.

If the GOP fails, it fails. WE will try to save it, as we have been doing. We aren't destroying the GOP, they are destroying themselves. They are a dying party, figuratively and literally speaking. They can stand with us and become stronger or keep fighting us, either way we will win in the long term. In the short term, the infighting will cost them the Presidency. And yes, that pleases me. Assume away.

Funny how you're psychic about me. Truly bizarre.

Equally funny is how you attack me rather than discuss your actions in relation to RP's requested actions.

FYI - enough people here, including Bryan and other moderators, have my personal contact information and my background. So you come across looking dumb.

Question: Isn't the typical action of a *disinfo* agent to attack the person, rather than reply?

Does your reply mean you believe that the delegate actions that may destroy the GOP are a *positive* effect?

See what I mean about despising the GOP? What are *you* doing here? Why don't you go find another party that you don't despise?

Will any of these actions impact RP's *Congressional* reelection?

In the short term, it's people like you who have DESTROYED RP'S REPUTATION.

And my concern is does that END THE LONG TERM?

FYI - does anyone have any concerns about the fact that both parties are having "delegate issues"?

Do you think the changes that will be made will actually be in *our* favor?

They will be used to justify *more* loss of liberties "so such situations never happen again".

 

[Sally08]

Absolutely

Sally- I thought you dropped out of the movement? Are you copying this thread, too?

A simple "Save As" to my "Politics" folder on my hard drive for each page takes about 10 seconds each-

And I *definitely* save the threads that I start.

Since your posts are on a public forum, do you see anything wrong with that?

It also shows how many times that people change their stories-

 

[Sally08]

Motive? Flames? Huh?

Ew, I do love facts. Show me some more.
I see motive behind her flames. Do you see them too?

I spend an hour drafting my OP and it's considered a "flame"?

Have you read any of the posts by others, about Georgia today, for instance?

Motive? Like don't betray RP?

 

[pepperpete1]

Sally08
RP Quotes in 3/6/08 Video:
The presidential campaign will soon wind down, but we do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primaries and to continue the caucus process that's ongoing in the other states by loyal volunteers.

I will continue to make every effort to visit any state where the enthusiasm for liberty exists.

The campaign for freedom will continue in this new phase.

We are still in the early stages of bringing about the changes that this revolution is all about.

Let us hope that we can one day look back and say that this campaign was a significant first step that signaled a change in direction for our country. Our job now is to plan for the next phase.

My interpretation of RP's request was for his supporters to become involved within the GOP organization, to do the necessary footwork to become respected elected officials at the local precinct/county/state levels as the prerequisite preparation to become national officials in the future.

Those people who were working to become delegates were doing exactly what you put in your post as a quote from Ron Paul. How's that?

Where did you come up with my just now becoming aware of the issues? I am baby boomer if that relates to anything. And who said it is the "sixties" generation who are the sheep? There are alot of apathetic, lazy Americans of all ages out there that need to get woke up and on the band wagon. Let the message prevail.

As for Dr. Paul, with all his years of political experience being aware of what exactly is happening, I am sure he is, and therefore I feel he is not afraid of any of the "blowback" you refer to in your fishing expedition.

Given our country's history as to what happens to those who challenge those "entrenched powers of corrutpion", did RP ever intend to move into the White House with secret service for his entire extended family?

Or did he use his campaign to get a better platform (not by much!) to reach people with his beliefs?

IMO Ron Paul knew and knows the parameters and the possibility of what may happen to an honest president, and accepted the consequences when he decided to become a candidate.
As for him using his campaign to reach more people with his beliefs................
Hell yeah! The more the better. As president, he will reach even more.

 

[Sally08]

Thanks for posting that

Sally- I thought you dropped out of the movement? Are you copying this thread, too?

In my "real life", I no longer mention RP. In fact, several weeks ago, I deleted my published article about RP that had my "real name".

Does that qualify as "dropping out" of the *RP movement*?

But not the conservative movement-

 

[dude58677]

We have discussed this delegate thing for over a year, so this is not a spur of the moment protest.

 

[torchbearer]

We have discussed this delegate thing for over a year, so this is not a spur of the moment protest.

Sally needs to unplug from the matrix and get her red pill therapy. Too much cable news will do that to you.

What we are doing today, was set in motion 12 months ago. You weren't party to that discussion. I'm sorry.

But this is our revolution. You invited yourself to it. Remember that. So you can leave anytime you want.

(notice we were talking revolution in may07, on this very site before the nifty logo.)

 

[Sally08]

Fishing expedition? For what?

As for Dr. Paul, with all his years of political experience being aware of what exactly is happening, I am sure he is, and therefore I feel he is not afraid of any of the "blowback" you refer to in your fishing expedition.

I don't believe in a million years that RP could ever have *imagined* that people would be posting their plans to violate their state rules that bind them to vote for McCain in Round One.

Ethics be damned? Get elected to national delegate knowing the rules and then breaking them/your word? Would RP *ever* consider such a thing??

IMO Ron Paul knew and knows the parameters and the possibility of what may happen to an honest president, and accepted the consequences when he decided to become a candidate.
As for him using his campaign to reach more people with his beliefs................
Hell yeah! The more the better. As president, he will reach even more.

I don't believe RP ever truly had the goal of becoming President. He stated his "surprise" about having gotten so far too many times. Would he be "surprised" to get the GOP nomination, as well? Or dismayed?

 

[mudburn]

It wasn't the RP delegates that caused the problems. Following the rules isn't creating a problem. The problems were created by others. Does this harm RP? I don't think so. The "movement" would be harmed by inaction, by not following the rules. I disagree with your basic premise that Nevada and Maine (and whatever other episodes) have harmed RP or the GOP. The GOP is what it is and has acted accordingly. From what I've read, RP supporters didn't act wrongly. That doesn't mean their positions were well accepted, though.

Oh yeah, RP supporters have been wrongfully treated long before any of these conventions when some GOP members realized they were RP supporters. The "blowback" referenced isn't because of RP supporters actions but, rather, because of the attitudes and corruption within the GOP. That's where the problem is. Ignoring it and placing the blame elsewhere doesn't do any good.

I would recommend you don't believe the headlines about Ron Paul supporters "hijacking" conventions. Spin.

dp

Does your reply mean you believe that the delegate actions that may destroy the GOP are a *positive* effect?

In the short term, it's people like you who have DESTROYED RP'S REPUTATION.

FYI - does anyone have any concerns about the fact that both parties are having "delegate issues"?

 

[Sally08]

What "spur of the moment protest"?

We have discussed this delegate thing for over a year, so this is not a spur of the moment protest.

Please explain so I don't make assumptions

I've been aware of "this delegate thing" for 4 or more months, so what is a "spur of the moment protest"?

Obviously, Nevada and Maine were well aware of the plans, as well. Very successful plans, huh? Not!

Didn't Steve Martin post about an actual "mole" in Maine, as well?

 

[dude58677]

Please explain so I don't make assumptions

I've been aware of "this delegate thing" for 4 or more months, so what is a "spur of the moment protest"?

Obviously, Nevada and Maine were well aware of the plans, as well. Very successful plans, huh? Not!

Didn't Steve Martin post about an actual "mole" in Maine, as well?

It was successful. It caught the establsihment of guard and it has been working in counties all across America(counties that haven't had State convention yet). We picked up more delegates at these convention then we did at the primaries.

As for Maine, we just have to be more discreet about being a RP supporter. It's no big deal.

 

[Sally08]

I believe what RP "supporters" post on RPF and DP

It wasn't the RP delegates that caused the problems. Following the rules isn't creating a problem. The problems were created by others. Does this harm RP? I don't think so. The "movement" would be harmed by inaction, by not following the rules. I disagree with your basic premise that Nevada and Maine (and whatever other episodes) have harmed RP or the GOP. The GOP is what it is and has acted accordingly. From what I've read, RP supporters didn't act wrongly. That doesn't mean their positions were well accepted, though.

Oh yeah, RP supporters have been wrongfully treated long before any of these conventions when some GOP members realized they were RP supporters. The "blowback" referenced isn't because of RP supporters actions but, rather, because of the attitudes and corruption within the GOP. That's where the problem is. Ignoring it and placing the blame elsewhere doesn't do any good.

I would recommend you don't believe the headlines about Ron Paul supporters "hijacking" conventions. Spin.

dp

It doesn't matter what I believe. What does matter is what the general public believes when you try to "spread the message" to them.

And if you already have to avoid any reference to "Ron Paul", exactly what happened to harm his good name?

I'm sorry, but many of the public posts on RPF and DP give very good reason for those monitoring the "RP people" to make their own plans to block us at every turn.

And how does that get anything accomplished towards RP's goals?

Very specific question:
What would you do if you were a national delegate from a state that bound you to vote for McCain for the first round (assuming McCain was not eliminated for health/legal/other reasons)?
1. Vote for McCain in the first round as you were elected to do
2. Refuse to vote at all
3. Defy your state's rules and vote for RP in the first round and likely get ejected from the convention with front-page headlines?

Please answer.

What damage do you think action #3 would cause?

 

[Sally08]

Past and future

It was successful. It caught the establsihment of guard and it has been working in counties all across America(counties that haven't had State convention yet). We picked up more delegates at these convention then we did at the primaries.

As for Maine, we just have to be more discreet about being a RP supporter. It's no big deal.

I agree that I read about some early successes.

However, I suspect that the remaining states are going to be a much different story, because the element of surprise is *definitely* gone.

It's also bizarre that the RP supporters are the only ones who have to hide who they're for!

Is this really how we elect our President?

 

[Gin]

The Delegate push is waking up the masses...it's an insurgency...it's gonna hurt...It's working....I mean really...
if all the msm can come up with to try and discredit Dr. Paul, is by talking about how Ron Paul Repulicans are taking over the GOP...
and winning delegates simply from playing by the roles.....

I think we are doing what we need to do....

Like RP said...
What is the point in having a Convention if the Delegates are already selected?...
That tells me that he is happy with what we are doing..

I have made the argument that the delegate push is a waste of time in the past. But then I realized one VERY important thing.

This "push" is about TRANSFORMING the Republican party! It's not just about electing Dr. Paul President in 2008!

Everything we learn and do now to get in there and work within the party CANNOT be a waste of time!

"Revolutions are LONG TERM PROJECTS!!!" -Dr. Ron Paul

If nothing else, let's take over congress in 2010!!!

 

[torchbearer]

What damage will McCain, Hillery, Obama cause?

What kind of damage did throwing the tea in the harbor do to the reputation of those rascally rebels?
Gee, I wish the british had a better view of them.

Collectivist are in power. They will not give up that power. They will demonize you are your prodigy for not obeying them. Does it really matter? Either you are a obedient slave, are you are considered a demon. YOur choice.

Our country was founding on blood, murder, plot, treason.... why? because the person in charge wasn't going to give up his power.

You make a peaceful revolution unattainable, your make a violent one unavoidable.
A patriot must do whatever they can to reinstate the consitution. Even if it means throwing tea in the harbor. Get it?
Take your collectivism and greater good crap back to the neocons where it belongs.
This movement isn't for everyone.

People are starting to wake up, they are plugged into their fox news. Make some noise so that maybe one day they will hear you.

 

[dude58677]

I agree that I read about some early successes.

However, I suspect that the remaining states are going to be a much different story, because the element of surprise is *definitely* gone.

It's also bizarre that the RP supporters are the only ones who have to hide who they're for!

Is this really how we elect our President?

We'll just say we are John McCain supporters at the remaining conventions but instead we'll vote for Ron Paul. It's no big deal and I'm not worried about our reputation. All freedom fighters reputations were called lunatics since Plato.

 

[Sally08]

And could your post be construed as a terrorist plot?

What damage will McCain, Hillery, Obama cause?

What kind of damage did throwing the tea in the harbor do to the reputation of those rascally rebels?
Gee, I wish the british had a better view of them.

Collectivist are in power. They will not give up that power. They will demonize you are your prodigy for not obeying them. Does it really matter? Either you are a obedient slave, are you are considered a demon. YOur choice.

Our country was founding on blood, murder, plot, treason.... why? because the person in charge wasn't going to give up his power.

You make a peaceful revolution unattainable, your make a violent one unavoidable.
A patriot must do whatever they can to reinstate the consitution. Even if it means throwing tea in the harbor. Get it?
Take your collectivism and greater good crap back to the neocons where it belongs.
This movement isn't for everyone.

People are starting to wake up, they are plugged into their fox news. Make some noise so that maybe one day they will hear you.

We're not talking about "tea in the harbor" this time. Would it be another Bhutto?

FWIW, I was taking the train into the city every day and politics was *not* being discussed. And if I mentioned RP, no one even knew who he was!

And what will make this "revolution" any more successful than the Sixties or the Ross Perot/United We Stand "movements"?

Any bets we're at war before the election, martial law will be implemented, and there won't be any election at all, so Bush can stay in power as dictator supreme?

Maybe all of these delegate issues in both parties are meant to be the *distraction* from what is actually going on behind the scenes?