Need some advice on handling an unreasonable search

[nf7mate]

I recently moved my family to a new city and enrolled my daughters in public school. My younger daughter had her cell phone confiscated during a random search today and the school is demanding a $15 fee, otherwise they will not return the phone to us. The phone was never seen or heard by anyone before it was confiscated. Here are the circumstances:

• During the last class period of the day, someone entered my daughters classroom. All the students groaned, some muttered "not again".
• The person told all of the students to get out their phones. My daughter said her phone is in her backpack, the officer told her to get it out.
• The person inspected each phone, then confiscated my daughter's because "it was on".
• All the students were then told to open their backpacks, empty their pockets, and leave all of their belongings at their desk. They were led to the hall.
• Another person entered the classroom with a dog. All of the students' belongings were presumably searched by this person/dog.
• The students were then given the "all clear" to re-enter the classroom.
• When my wife arrived to pick up my daughter, she was told we owed $15 and they would not release the phone unless she paid. She did not pay.

I see this as a clear violation of the fourth amendment. Not only was there no probable cause for the search, there was not even a reasonable suspicion. It was simply a random search of an entire classroom, which apparently is fairly common at this school based on the way the students reacted. The school handbook says that the school has the right to search outer clothing and belongings if reasonable suspicion exists, and goes on to say that random locker searches may occur. This was not a locker search, nor was it a search of belongings due to reasonable suspicion. The handbook does say that phones should be off during school hours, and my daughter's phone was on, but she never used the phone during the day, nor was it ever heard. Our last school had a rule that phones were okay as long as they were never seen or heard, which is what we were used to.

What I plan to do:
I will NOT be paying the school $15. I plan to call the school tomorrow and request an appointment with the principal. I plan to bring a formal letter with my complaint, requesting they waive the fee and return the phone, and also requesting they immediately stop this unconstitutional practice. My next step would be to contact the administrator of the school district in writing. After this, I am at a loss of what to do next. I am considering contacting an attorney or the ACLU. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[libertyfan101]

I recently moved my family to a new city and enrolled my daughters in public school. My younger daughter had her cell phone confiscated during a random search today and the school is demanding a $15 fee, otherwise they will not return the phone to us. The phone was never seen or heard by anyone before it was confiscated. Here are the circumstances:

• During the last class period of the day, someone entered my daughters classroom. All the students groaned, some muttered "not again".
• The person told all of the students to get out their phones. My daughter said her phone is in her backpack, the officer told her to get it out.
• The person inspected each phone, then confiscated my daughter's because "it was on".
• All the students were then told to open their backpacks, empty their pockets, and leave all of their belongings at their desk. They were led to the hall.
• Another person entered the classroom with a dog. All of the students' belongings were presumably searched by this person/dog.
• The students were then given the "all clear" to re-enter the classroom.
• When my wife arrived to pick up my daughter, she was told we owed $15 and they would not release the phone unless she paid. She did not pay.

I see this as a clear violation of the fourth amendment. Not only was there no probable cause for the search, there was not even a reasonable suspicion. It was simply a random search of an entire classroom, which apparently is fairly common at this school based on the way the students reacted. The school handbook says that the school has the right to search outer clothing and belongings if reasonable suspicion exists, and goes on to say that random locker searches may occur. This was not a locker search, nor was it a search of belongings due to reasonable suspicion. The handbook does say that phones should be off during school hours, and my daughter's phone was on, but she never used the phone during the day, nor was it ever heard. Our last school had a rule that phones were okay as long as they were never seen or heard, which is what we were used to.

What I plan to do:
I will NOT be paying the school $15. I plan to call the school tomorrow and request an appointment with the principal. I plan to bring a formal letter with my complaint, requesting they waive the fee and return the phone, and also requesting they immediately stop this unconstitutional practice. My next step would be to contact the administrator of the school district in writing. After this, I am at a loss of what to do next. I am considering contacting an attorney or the ACLU. Any advice would be appreciated.

When you see the principle take his or her phone when you get the chance. Maybe set up a call to the principle's cell phone if you can get their number before hand. Grab the phone from them and walk out the door telling them you won't return it until you get your phone back.

 

[libertyfan101]

That's what I would do at least. On the serious side though you're doing what needs to be done and I hope you get her phone back without paying for it. It's your property and no laws were broken.

 

[The One]

That's what I would do at least.

 

[cjm]

What I plan to do:
I will NOT be paying the school $15. I plan to call the school tomorrow and request an appointment with the principal. I plan to bring a formal letter with my complaint, requesting they waive the fee and return the phone, and also requesting they immediately stop this unconstitutional practice. My next step would be to contact the administrator of the school district in writing. After this, I am at a loss of what to do next. I am considering contacting an attorney or the ACLU. Any advice would be appreciated.

First of all, the bureaucrats at the school don't care about you or your daughters. If you make demands of them, they will take a lot of pleasure in making this situation more difficult than it already is. I would not demand that they "immediately stop this unconstitutional practice" until you get your phone back. Play nice. "Hey, I'm new to the area, I'm a decent guy, just give me the phone back and I assure you it won't happen again." If you go in demanding that they do as you say, you won't come away happy. If the principal doesn't budge, go play nice with the folks at the district office. If they don't budge, find a city councilman who is either liberty-oriented or at least critical of the school district regime. Politicians can make some unbelievable stuff happen. The bureaucrats may not give a darn about you and your family, but they seem to be pretty sensitive to what the politicians want. When you approach the councilman, make sure he knows that you are a supporter. Do some research and tell him that you chose to appeal to him because you liked the way he handled X or Y. That way he knows you are up on your local politics. Anyway, this is how you can get the phone back. If principal, district supervisors, and councilmen don't work out, either pay the $15 or buy a new cell phone, and consider this a cheap lesson in modern civics. You will lose any lawsuit that you bring, and lose a lot of wealth in bringing it.

 

[Pericles]

Might be time to report a stolen cell phone.

 

[Eagles' Wings]

First of all, the bureaucrats at the school don't care about you or your daughters. If you make demands of them, they will take a lot of pleasure in making this situation more difficult than it already is. I would not demand that they "immediately stop this unconstitutional practice" until you get your phone back. Play nice. "Hey, I'm new to the area, I'm a decent guy, just give me the phone back and I assure you it won't happen again." If you go in demanding that they do as you say, you won't come away happy. If the principle doesn't budge, go play nice with the folks at the district office. If they don't budge, find a city councilman who is either liberty-oriented or at least critical of the school district regime. Politicians can make some unbelievable stuff happen. The bureaucrats may not give a darn about you and your family, but they seem to be pretty sensitive to what the politicians want. When you approach the councilman, make sure he knows that you are a supporter. Do some research and tell him that you chose to appeal to him because you liked the way he handled X or Y. That way he knows you are up on your local politics. Anyway, this is how you can get the phone back. If principle, district supervisors, and councilmen don't work out, either pay the $15 or buy a new cell phone, and consider this a cheap lesson in modern civics. You will lose any lawsuit that you bring, and lose a lot of wealth in bringing it.

Excellent advice. Take it seriously. We have been through similar situations and it is very important to act with diplomacy while advocating for your child.

 

[Charlie Harris]

If nothing can be worked out with the school officials, then I would threaten law suit for 4th amendment violations.

 

[angelatc]

My kid would be out of that school so fast it would make their heads spin.

If it's a public school, they get money based on attendance. More than $15, I'm guessing.

Then get your daughter to organize sit outs. Worked in the'60's. Get all the kids to walk out of their classes and sit outside, telling the administration they're not coming back until this shit stops. Tip the media only after the kids are on their way out the door.

 

[Eagles' Wings]

My kid would be out of that school so fast it would make their heads spin.

If it's a public school, they get money based on attendance. More than $15, I'm guessing.

Unless one chooses homeschooling, or perhaps a charter school with more parental influence, good luck finding a public highschool where this could not/ would not happen at the drop of a hat.

 

[AceNZ]

The purpose of government schools is not what most of us think of as education -- it's teaching of a different kind: to learn to conform to the rules; to tolerate abuse by the State. Schools and the State don't think parents should be responsible for the kids (much less that the kids should be responsible for themselves). They think they own the kids, and they will do with them as they wish, regarding all aspects of their lives.

You can try fighting it if you have the stomach for it, but I think you'll find that fighting the system using the system is doomed to fail. Personally, I'd probably lean toward a more passive-aggressive approach, and just get my kid a replacement cheap-o phone, and another and another, each time they take it away. Maybe even give away some free burners to her friends. I'd also do what I could to facilitate my child's absence from school as much as possible (grades don't matter). Either home school or no school is better than government school.

 

[Simple]

That sounds more like a prison than a school. what have we become?

 

[QuickZ06]

WOW, unreal. If or when I have kids they will not be going to a public school. I hope this gets worked out in your favor. Sounds like you got a real piece of work cop at that school

 

[nf7mate]

Thanks to all for the advice and jokes. I'm going to try the "be nice" approach and give the principal a chance to voluntarily give back the phone - though my wife tried that with the assistant principal today to no avail. If that fails, I will contact local politicians. This carries the exta bonus of getting to know local politicians in my new city.

The $15 is not a huge obstacle to me. I simply don't want to pay the school to get my daughter's phone back. If I am unable to get the phone back without payment, I will simply buy another phone for my daughter. Incidentally, this is a Title I school, meaning this is a school in a relatively poor area. It disgusts me that this school bullies poor families into paying this $15.

On the positive side, this led to some good conversation with my wife and daughters about the fourth ammendment. My daughters now know not to submit to such searches in the future, and instead to request the school call me.

 

[angelatc]

You can try fighting it if you have the stomach for it, but I think you'll find that fighting the system using the system is doomed to fail. Personally, I'd probably lean toward a more passive-aggressive approach, and just get my kid a replacement cheap-o phone, and another and another, each time they take it away.

I love that. In fact, in my son's elementary school, they had a box where people dropped their old cell phones for recycling. I was the BoxTops mom, but I could easily have switched to the Phone Mom position. Nobody wanted that damned job.

 

[Eagles' Wings]

Thanks to all for the advice and jokes. I'm going to try the "be nice" approach and give the principal a chance to voluntarily give back the phone - though my wife tried that with the assistant principal today to no avail. If that fails, I will contact local politicians. This carries the exta bonus of getting to know local politicians in my new city.

The $15 is not a huge obstacle to me. I simply don't want to pay the school to get my daughter's phone back. If I am unable to get the phone back without payment, I will simply buy another phone for my daughter. Incidentally, this is a Title I school, meaning this is a school in a relatively poor area. It disgusts me that this school bullies poor families into paying this $15.

On the positive side, this led to some good conversation with my wife and daughters about the fourth ammendment. My daughters now know not to submit to such searches in the future, and instead to request the school call me.

Good to hear you visited the vice principal right away. Now they know you and recognize that you will be a strong advocate for your daughters. Your daughters are blessed to have you as their parents and will be more confident knowing that you are their first line of defense.

I'm also thinking, that a call to the City Attorney would possibly clarify the position of the school/school board with these searches. I'm going to call myself. God Speed, Louise

 

[cjm]

The $15 is not a huge obstacle to me. I simply don't want to pay the school to get my daughter's phone back.

I don't blame you one bit. I wouldn't want to pay it either. With the "be nice" approach, I would start with stroking the principal's ego a bit, not too much, but, "thanks for taking the time to see me, I'm somewhat embarrassed that our first meeting is due to this, etc" then into "new guy, honest mistake, please cut me some slack it won't happen again." Just to keep you grounded, this will probably not work. Generally speaking, school administrators are hired because they enforce rules without consideration for extenuating circumstances. Think "this goes to 11." They may have the capacity to understand alternate views, but typically, they don't make use of that ability on the job.

So when the friendly appeal doesn't work, go with, "well you know the search really wasn't 100% in line with the student handbook, so I was hoping that a grey area search might generate a grey area response...." or similar. Use your own words, don't mention the US Constitution or anything outside the school's rule book -- that's all they care about.. This might rile the principal a bit, but you have to get it on record that you addressed the bad search. When you get the expected, "There's nothing I can do, those are the rules," thank the principal for his time and clarification of the rules (whether needed or not) and do not mention the district supervisor or the city council. If you do, the principal will call ahead and you're done before you even make an appointment.

With the district folks, rinse and repeat (I'd use the same approach). They probably won't want to see you face to face, and you'll have to try it all on the phone (which isn't ideal), and it probably won't work unless they think the principal is a jerk. Note that they don't care about you or your family, but if they can stick it to a troublesome underling, they will.

With the councilman, don't worry about the "new guy" part. Be grateful for the time to present your issue, establish that you know local politics, and jump right in to the bad search. Again, don't bring up the US Constitution or anything except the school's rule book (or district rule book if that is the case).

Regardless of the outcome, get involved in local politics and try to make things better.

 

[angelatc]

Call the police, and tell them that a school bully stole your daughter's phone, and is holding it for ransom.

 

[Aden]

I stopped reading at "my kids are in public school." Never ceases to amaze me that people in the liberty movement send their kids to be with the government all day.

 

[SL89]

Interesting thread. Makes me glad Montana schools haven't slipped as far.

My kid would be out of that school so fast it would make their heads spin.

If it's a public school, they get money based on attendance. More than $15, I'm guessing

Yep! And I know money talks. When the wife and I moved back to the States, we thought of holding one of my two boys back so he could acclimate and grow his English skills. The superintendent assured us that he would do o.k. and begged for enrollment. He blatantly stated they needed the funds! (roughly 15k per student)


As an aside: The boys are 4.0 and well above grade level. One of them has been a member here for a couple of years. The schools so far have been resistant to the crap pushing its way by force throughout the education system. I have never had a problem getting the staff to fix small wrongs we have encountered. Heck, they can still carry knives 3" and under in school and hunting rifles in full view can be found parked there as well.

Reading some of what you all go through, reaffirms my choice to live in Montana.