NASA Scientist (Creationist) on life on Mars

[torchbearer]

Well tardigrades (much larger than bacteria) are able to survive extreme cold and the vacuum of space. Maybe they can be engineered to eat rust and produce oxygen?

maybe, I think we'd have more luck with bacteria just because they are simpler in make-up. I never understood why the scientist want to prevent life from earth from spreading... I think that would be a good thing.

 

[torchbearer]

here is a good species to start with: Halomonas titanicae. it is an extremophile that eats rust. (the natural break down leads to iron and oxygen). oxygen is important in warming an atmosphere and in creating ozone to reduce solar radiation. the good news- solar radiation on the surface of mars at curiosity's location is the same as experienced by astronauts in low earth orbit. also, the daytime temps at the location get up around 40degrees F. nighttime -120F. that huge swing in temp would be reduced with more atmosphere.

Deep sea water is quite poor in oxygen. Bacteria that live there often depend upon oxides of metals to obtain oxygen. They do this by breaking up the oxygen to yield metal atoms and oxygen atoms. The metal is a waste product for the bacteria, while they use the oxygen for respiration. Halomonas titanicae uses rust (which is a mixture of iron oxides) as a source of oxygen.

 

[jmdrake]

maybe, I think we'd have more luck with bacteria just because they are simpler in make-up. I never understood why the scientist want to prevent life from earth from spreading... I think that would be a good thing.

I didn't know scientists in general wanted to prevent life form earth from spreading. Doesn't colonization of space required that to some degree? Wasn't that the point of the whole "biosphere" phenomenon?

 

[torchbearer]

I didn't know scientists in general wanted to prevent life form earth from spreading. Doesn't colonization of space required that to some degree? Wasn't that the point of the whole "biosphere" phenomenon?

what I see- scientist are looking for evidence of life outside our home... so they don't want to "contaminate" other planets with our life forms.
though the question is important, I don't think it will be answered with our solar system. earth is it for this location in the galaxy. Europa has the highest possibility of life, and we don't have the guts/tech/money to go looking for it.

 

[jmdrake]

here is a good species to start with: Halomonas titanicae. it is an extremophile that eats rust. (the natural break down leads to iron and oxygen). oxygen is important in warming an atmosphere and in creating ozone to reduce solar radiation. the good news- solar radiation on the surface of mars at curiosity's location is the same as experienced by astronauts in low earth orbit. also, the daytime temps at the location get up around 40degrees F. nighttime -120F. that huge swing in temp would be reduced with more atmosphere.

Hmmmm.....a reverse ruster. Sounds like there could be a lot of uses for that.

 

[torchbearer]

Hmmmm.....a reverse ruster. Sounds like there could be a lot of uses for that.

there is... you could take the body of an old rusted car, submerge it in a salt water tank with this bacteria, and the end product would be iron that could be melted down and used again.

 

[jmdrake]

there is... you could take the body of an old rusted car, submerge it in a salt water tank with this bacteria, and the end product would be iron that could be melted down and used again.

Maybe a "kitchen biologist" might hack up what's needed. (See: http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/214)

 

[Natural Citizen]

This was in interesting discussion on the radio last night. A Godless Cosmos was the premise. Although the discussion doesn't necessarily reflect that but was good nonetheless. Bloom is a scientific thinker so was a hoot to hear some discussion on some things often overlooked in science.

Is probably on youtube some place but probably have to skip passed first hour guest, author and tangible asset expert Craig R. Smith who addressed the economic problems facing the US, including the 'fiscal cliff.' If the tax cuts aren't reinstated, it would generate a large amount of revenue that could go toward the federal deficit, even though it would bring on a recession, he noted. Smith cited the "debasement" of the dollar, and how its value has been gradually siphoned away, as one of America's biggest financial issues. Returning to the gold standard could be a very viable option as a long term fix for this problem, he suggested.

Anyhoo...beyond all of that...Author Howard Bloom discussed his new book The God Problem. "If you've got a universe without a god, how does it make itself?" he pondered. An atheist, who doesn't decry religion as some well-known atheists do, Bloom said he searched for truths in a material cosmos inhabited by immaterial things, without going off into the realm of the spiritual. He cited a wave in the ocean as an example of the material power in immaterial things in that it retains its shape even as it's continually changing and made up of shifting water particles, and that when it arrives on shore, its particles are completely different than what it was composed of earlier.

Bloom shared several scientific heresies that he uncovered. The idea of randomness in the development of the universe is wrong-- quarks came out in only 16 different forms-- "that's not wild and abandoned randomness, that's just a very small number of choices coming out of the universe," he commented. The concept of entropy is also mistaken, he continued. "The universe is not falling apart, the universe is constantly falling together." He also cited the power of attraction in molecules as a kind of miracle, and suggested that the power of prayer works because if a person knows they're being prayed for, it helps them to realize that their existence is necessary.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Sorry. Double post....

 

[jmdrake]

This was in interesting discussion on the radio last night. A Godless Cosmos was the premise. Although the discussion doesn't necessarily reflect that but was good nonetheless. Bloom is a scientific thinker so was a hoot to hear some discussion on some things often overlooked in science.

Is probably on youtube some place but probably have to skip passed first hour guest, author and tangible asset expert Craig R. Smith who addressed the economic problems facing the US, including the 'fiscal cliff.' If the tax cuts aren't reinstated, it would generate a large amount of revenue that could go toward the federal deficit, even though it would bring on a recession, he noted. Smith cited the "debasement" of the dollar, and how its value has been gradually siphoned away, as one of America's biggest financial issues. Returning to the gold standard could be a very viable option as a long term fix for this problem, he suggested.

Anyhoo...beyond all of that...Author Howard Bloom discussed his new book The God Problem. "If you've got a universe without a god, how does it make itself?" he pondered. An atheist, who doesn't decry religion as some well-known atheists do, Bloom said he searched for truths in a material cosmos inhabited by immaterial things, without going off into the realm of the spiritual. He cited a wave in the ocean as an example of the material power in immaterial things in that it retains its shape even as it's continually changing and made up of shifting water particles, and that when it arrives on shore, its particles are completely different than what it was composed of earlier.

Bloom shared several scientific heresies that he uncovered. The idea of randomness in the development of the universe is wrong-- quarks came out in only 16 different forms-- "that's not wild and abandoned randomness, that's just a very small number of choices coming out of the universe," he commented. The concept of entropy is also mistaken, he continued. "The universe is not falling apart, the universe is constantly falling together." He also cited the power of attraction in molecules as a kind of miracle, and suggested that the power of prayer works because if a person knows they're being prayed for, it helps them to realize that their existence is necessary.

Thanks for sharing! That last part it quite profound.

 

[TER]

This quote in the OP is also profound and also worth repeating:

...All of this simply means that real science supports faith in God. Science cannot prove that we are here by chance (evolution) or by design (creation). However, the scientific evidence can be used to support one or the other. It is only fair that evidence supporting intelligent design be presented to students alongside of evolutionary theory, especially in public schools, which receive funding from taxpayers who are on both sides of the issue. Also, no one is being forced to believe in God or adopt a particular religion so there is no true violation of...

Thanks again for sharing!

 

[Nirvikalpa]

This was in interesting discussion on the radio last night. A Godless Cosmos was the premise. Although the discussion doesn't necessarily reflect that but was good nonetheless. Bloom is a scientific thinker so was a hoot to hear some discussion on some things often overlooked in science.

Is probably on youtube some place but probably have to skip passed first hour guest, author and tangible asset expert Craig R. Smith who addressed the economic problems facing the US, including the 'fiscal cliff.' If the tax cuts aren't reinstated, it would generate a large amount of revenue that could go toward the federal deficit, even though it would bring on a recession, he noted. Smith cited the "debasement" of the dollar, and how its value has been gradually siphoned away, as one of America's biggest financial issues. Returning to the gold standard could be a very viable option as a long term fix for this problem, he suggested.

Anyhoo...beyond all of that...Author Howard Bloom discussed his new book The God Problem. "If you've got a universe without a god, how does it make itself?" he pondered. An atheist, who doesn't decry religion as some well-known atheists do, Bloom said he searched for truths in a material cosmos inhabited by immaterial things, without going off into the realm of the spiritual. He cited a wave in the ocean as an example of the material power in immaterial things in that it retains its shape even as it's continually changing and made up of shifting water particles, and that when it arrives on shore, its particles are completely different than what it was composed of earlier.

Bloom shared several scientific heresies that he uncovered. The idea of randomness in the development of the universe is wrong-- quarks came out in only 16 different forms-- "that's not wild and abandoned randomness, that's just a very small number of choices coming out of the universe," he commented. The concept of entropy is also mistaken, he continued. "The universe is not falling apart, the universe is constantly falling together." He also cited the power of attraction in molecules as a kind of miracle and suggested that the power of prayer works because if a person knows they're being prayed for, it helps them to realize that their existence is necessary.

Those are two beliefs of mine that have only been further cemented by studying science. I never would have believed immersing myself in science would open my eyes to the little miracles of nature we so commonly overlook.

Great post.

 

[Bman]

here is a good species to start with: Halomonas titanicae. it is an extremophile that eats rust. (the natural break down leads to iron and oxygen). oxygen is important in warming an atmosphere and in creating ozone to reduce solar radiation. the good news- solar radiation on the surface of mars at curiosity's location is the same as experienced by astronauts in low earth orbit. also, the daytime temps at the location get up around 40degrees F. nighttime -120F. that huge swing in temp would be reduced with more atmosphere.

I think before you concern yourself with populating the surface with any type of critter you have to concern your self with heating up Mars' core. From what I understand with it's core being as cool as it is it is not providing a magnetic shield. Without that shield solar winds will simply sweep away any type of atmosphere you try and create.

 

[TER]

There is indeed beauty in the world. Beauty is of the divine, and its attributes in accordance to what is considered divine. Beauty is found everywhere, in the simpleness of a child's smile and in profound complexities beyond human comprehension. As Dostoyevsky said 'beauty will save the world.'

Beauty is produced in truth, all the virtues and eternal attributes of an eternal loving Father in Heaven.

Science is one means of discerning and appreciating the awesome power and glory and beauty of God our Creator, and it is through science that I first become convinced of Him. There will always be science; there is always more to be known, for the knowledge of God is infinite, for that is the attribute of the divine nature. And dimensions and universes ad infinity do not compare to God in His essense, the Seat of God which is unapproachable, a truth, a wisdom, a light and love to which we spend an eternity growing in. And in glorious worship of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Light of the World and God-incarnate, "the lamb who takes away the sins of the world". This must be the common stance for the Christian. And proclaiming the revelation heard in every dominion and every kingdom, and even into the very depths of hell, that Christ is risen from the dead, that He has destroyed death by dying undefiled, uncorrupted, and in perfect love. By His sinless sacrifice and pure offering, His uniting our nature with His divine nature through selfless love. In this and by this He has become all things, so that we too, His children, might become all things. He died for us and rose again so that when we die we will rise again. This is the reason for the hope in the Christian!

 

[Natural Citizen]

Science is one means of discerning and appreciating the awesome power and glory and beauty of God our Creator, and it is through science that I first become convinced of Him. There will always be science; there is always more to be known, for the knowledge of God is infinite, for that is the attribute of the divine nature.

And isn't it amazing to consider the possibilities often presented in life that are disguised as difficulties as well as what can be achieved once we are in allignment with purpose. As was mentioned a few posts below, opening our eyes to those peculiar little miracles of nature we do so commonly overlook are often cemented in science. That's the universal answer for "show me this God you speak of". It's not political in any way. Religious Conscience in the correct context, for sure. Removed from one another is a synergy in itself. Equally acceptable. Debatable, of course, but just my own opinion.

 

[TER]

Religious Conscience in the correct context, for sure. Removed from one another is a synergy in itself. Equally acceptable.

Our salvation is unique for sure, as we are unique persons. But the Christian would add that our salvation is made complete being in communion with God and with our neighbor. In symphonia, in oneness of nature and will, in divine communion and love, in such true beauty made possible by Jesus Christ. This for the confessing Christian is true religious conscience- to 'put on Christ' and allow Him to enter our hearts.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Our salvation is unique for sure, as we are unique persons. But the Christian would add that our salvation is made complete being in communion with God and with our neighbor. In symphonia, in oneness of nature and will, in divine communion and love, in such true beauty made possible by Jesus Christ. This for the confessing Christian is true religious conscience- to 'put on Christ' and allow Him to enter our hearts.

But we are all connected. You see? We are. And connected to the Universe. And we are connected before any moral additions are placed into context. I'm not disagreeing with you in scope but unique in that context is more of a moral perception after the fact and really loaded toward a forgone conclusion in the mind of man or men, I should say. It's been said that man is more of a singular creature and unique among the animals so that, unlike them, he isn't a figure in the landscape but the shape of it. I don't remember where that was discussed but I do remember that it was profound in scope looking toward a broader perspective relative to the general notion you've brought.

Again, this is where I'd much rather have a different platform to place that aspect of discussion into context. So...I don't know. There is a ceiling that exists and even though we are able to communicate some things relevant to a Religious atmosphere there really is more to the given discussion outside of that context.

Generally though, I agree that there is a point to be made in your comments. Not really knocking them or anything.

 

[torchbearer]

I think before you concern yourself with populating the surface with any type of critter you have to concern your self with heating up Mars' core. From what I understand with it's core being as cool as it is it is not providing a magnetic shield. Without that shield solar winds will simply sweep away any type of atmosphere you try and create.

I understand the lack of magnetic shielding will result in loss of atmosphere, but it could be possible to have enough bacteria eating away globally to sustain enough atmosphere to get the planet closer to friendly. then, with human settlers on the ground, they could work on other issues.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I understand the lack of magnetic shielding will result in loss of atmosphere, but it could be possible to have enough bacteria eating away globally to sustain enough atmosphere to get the planet closer to friendly. then, with human settlers on the ground, they could work on other issues.

Domes...

Crawl before we walk.
Some craters just look that way on other worlds, btw. So...Go Newt!

Not practical to forget those projects closer to home while we are fed sensationalism from the Mars team. Is how fascism was removed from logic in terms of Crony Capitalism.

 

[torchbearer]

Domes...

Crawl before we walk.

getting bacteria started on mars may require domes at first also... they could later be used by settlers.
it wouldn't require humans on mars to get bacteria started, but it would help.
I think terraforming would be a worthy mars mission, and would make sense for the long term survival of our species.. if such a thing even matters.