My relatives make 20k a year, and live better lifestyles than me making 100k

[onlyrp]

The OP has basically been conscripted into involuntary servitude to nameless/faceless others from January through the middle of April. It's starting to make sense to me now why the IRS has a mid-April filing deadline.

why? Why not June or December?

 

[iGGz]

[}{]

 

[PaulConventionWV]

So to live is to be in debt unless you're homeless?

No, stupid. You have to OWN the place you live in. I was talking about rent, not something that's bought and paid for. If you rent something, you will never completely pay it off.

If you pay off your house, then it's yours and you're not in debt anymore. If you live in someone else's space, then you are indebted to them the value of that space. If you own the space, then you have no debt. It's as simple as that.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Then don't whine about not having enough money.

Why don't you consolidate your student loans or something?

The thing is, he didn't want to bring up the charity thing, but he had to. If he started this thread and did NOT mention it, then it would have made even less sense than it does now, which is to say, very little sense.

 

[onlyrp]

No, stupid. You have to OWN the place you live in. I was talking about rent, not something that's bought and paid for. If you rent something, you will never completely pay it off.

yes, but nobody is born with a house. So unless they are inheriting a house, they'll always be paying rent or mortgage, typically 10 years minimum (and that's a VERY conservative estimate, 25 years is realistic)

 

[onlyrp]

The thing is, he didn't want to bring up the charity thing, but he had to. If he started this thread and did NOT mention it, then it would have made even less sense than it does now, which is to say, very little sense.

exactly, he still owes us some more numbers if he wants the thread to keep going, but looks like the people here are having their fun time without him

 

[iGGz]

\/\/O\/\/

 

[onlyrp]

Yeah. I don't want to dog on the guy, I mean, I agree with the his main point. I just don't agree with the need to donate (especially 10%) when obviously the money is also needed by the person donating it. I'm not exactly the most religious person (at all), but I do help people I see if they need it- something that makes me feel 100x better than donating to some church who is going to use the money on some new furniture or something. I also tip very generously which I consider in a way a form of charity.

Tipping is charity, it's completely voluntary too.

 

[RonPaulIsGreat]

Hrmmm, you are broke because of student loans, and giving to charity and living in an expensive area.

Anyway, if I make the same as last year I should make about 80K in my new situation.
Expenses: 115.00 health insurance BlueCross HSA 5000 account means means I pay 5000 out of pocket total for the year the rest for everything is 100% for all but a few things. HSA accounts are tax deductible off your income. So, not much of an expense there really and the money in HSA accounts accumulates every year if you don't use it.

So, that is monthly.

115.00 Health insurance
160.00 Gas/Electric
60.00 Water
100.00 HSA Contribution to account
100.00 internet
100.00 drinks
40.00 car insurance
125 Housing taxes
210 food (I actually spent less than 7today)
120 Gas (it really isn't that much even)
60 Clothes Primarily Offseason clearance and ebay, which probably is like 500 a year. So 2 dollars a day.
9 Netflix (I think that is what it costs)
100 Dog Expenses (really isn't that much rounding)

=1299 Dollars a month to live.

I do spend more than that but everything else is not necessary and luxury.

So, my average monthly income for the year should be around 6750.

So, leaving about half left over after taxes and real expenses.

If I had to pay 20% to student loans and 10% to the church, I'd be only left with like a thousand at the end of the month I'm guessing.

So, you are broke because of your student loans, choice of residence, and 10% tithe, not because of the welfare system necessarily. So, you should have crunched these numbers, well in advance. Almost Anyone would have little money left after
giving 30% off the top then paying a 1000 in rent, then 28% taxes.

Just to clarify I think there is to much welfare but that isn't the primary reason the OP is broke.

 

[Danke]

Tipping is charity, it's completely voluntary too.

yep, so is paying into the income tax.

 

[jclay2]

Sorry op, I feel like to many people are getting sidetracked and not focusing on the real issue. The real issue is that a huge portion of the populace is sucking tens of thousands of dollars out of the system without puting anything back in. That is the problem, period. All of the posters here asking you to release your w2 and quicken budget summary are just serving as a distraction. Instead of focusing on the 30-40% cream off the top that the Government steals, people are questioning your 10% tithes to the church.

 

[onlyrp]

Sorry op, I feel like to many people are getting sidetracked and not focusing on the real issue. The real issue is that a huge portion of the populace is sucking tens of thousands of dollars out of the system without puting anything back in. That is the problem, period. All of the posters here asking you to release your w2 and quicken budget summary are just serving as a distraction. Instead of focusing on the 30-40% cream off the top that the Government steals, people are questioning your 10% tithes to the church.

why should we take his word for it? he already admitted he didn't itemize his deductions, which is why he's taxed to the max when he didn't have to. I am not questioning his tithing, just wondering why he's complaining when he says he "cheerfully" gives.

 

[onlyrp]

If I had to pay 20% to student loans and 10% to the church, I'd be only left with like a thousand at the end of the month I'm guessing.

and by what standard is that worse than somebody who makes $20,000 a year? He's still not telling us

 

[Noclone]

That's a good strategy... but what about the chemtrails??

I keed, I keed.

You mean the chemicals from acid rain? That's a whole other issue.

 

[Steven Douglas]

The OP has basically been conscripted into involuntary servitude to nameless/faceless others from January through the middle of April. It's starting to make sense to me now why the IRS has a mid-April filing deadline.why?

Why not June or December?

I thought it was obvious - and even obvious that I was being facetious. If 30% of your earnings go to taxes in a year, it means that you are laboring for the first 30% of each year (just under four months, or right around April 15th) exclusively for whatever and whomever benefits from those taxes.

 

[seekingliberty]

Sorry op, I feel like to many people are getting sidetracked and not focusing on the real issue. The real issue is that a huge portion of the populace is sucking tens of thousands of dollars out of the system without puting anything back in. That is the problem, period. All of the posters here asking you to release your w2 and quicken budget summary are just serving as a distraction. Instead of focusing on the 30-40% cream off the top that the Government steals, people are questioning your 10% tithes to the church.

I agree! I completely understand your frustration at the system. I do agree though that you should be itemizing and taking as many deductions as possible.

What he chooses to spend his money on should be no one's business. I would think that being on a Ron Paul forum, he would get more sympathy for him feeling abused by the system. After all, Ron Paul's philosophy does advocate for self responsibility and not having the govt take care of able people.

Now, I do agree that maybe he should track where his money is going since he claims to live so frugal but I'm not going to criticize him for choosing to pay off bills, tithe to his Church and eat healthier foods. We eat organic foods (researching our food supply is what brought me to Paul. It's not a liberal issue, anyone that eats should be concerned about it!) but it really doesn't cost much more than when we ate conventional foods and ate out all the time. We don't buy the convenience foods though since it's still not that good for you even if it is organic and they are so much more expensive than buying whole foods and preparing from scratch. We just buy our foods in bulk so it is cheaper than buying smaller packages. We don't shop at whole foods since there is not one close by and the one time we went, we weren't that impressed.

I can kind of understand how he could say that they live better than him. Taking into consideration a lot of their budget is coming from the government they don't have to put out the same work load but they get to do more (even though it seems like he probably could afford to do all the extra stuff that they do, but he has to work to pay for it). He has made choices to be a responsible adult and others that aren't so responsible get a free ride. I too get frustrated, especially after being at the grocery store behind someone in line that is buying a cart full of convenience foods (more costly), a pile of steaks, loads of soda, cookies, crackers and other items and whip out their ebt card to pay for it. Then they get rung up for the bottles of hard alcohol, cigs and cases of beer to which they pay cash for.

 

[asurfaholic]

This country sucks. I get so frustrated at times that I find myself wishing for a collapse in hopes that the welfare freebies go away. I just did my taxes, and had conversations--in one case, a heated argument--with family who did taxes too. Here is modern Amerika for you.

My wife and I are pulling in 85k - 100k a year. Because we "make so much," we do not qualify for government handouts. Between federal, state and local taxes, 30%+ of our income goes to government right off the bat. Then over 20% goes to student loans. We live in a nice two-bedroom apartment and can afford to eat healthy food (Whole Foods, organics, etc). But we are not rich--we have not been on vacation in almost four years; my wife has wanted/needed a new Macbook for a year but we can't afford one; we buy most of our clothes from the thrift store; we have only been out to eat two times since September; we never pay money for entertainment such as concerts, football games, movie theaters, etc.

Two different sets of relatives of mine make around 20k a year. In both families the wife does not work, only the husband. One of them makes like $10 an hour at a big-box store, the other probably makes $12ish at a hospital. One family is expecting a third child, the other the second. This means that both families get enough tax credits so that they get way more money than they pay in--one is getting almost $10k "back" this April. Whereas I have to pay my own medical bills, these guys get Medicaid; and for all I know are on food stamps and who knows what else. Both families seem to eat out as much as they want, pay for entertainment, and in the last 6 months have gone on vacation.

In short, because our government is playing Robbin Hood, we have relatives and families in my church who make a fraction of what we make, but live better lifestyles than we do.

When you are focusing on what everyone else has, then you lose sight on the things that really matter. You have a family that needs your love and support. Stop worrying about the people who in your mind are getting out easy, and be thankful for what you have. In my experience, the low rate jobs are thankless jobs, and getting significant respect is really hard to come by. If you and your wife have good jobs, then you probably have good, well respected positions in your community. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor...

 

[brushfire]

Who is that John Galt?

He's that guy from Wall Drug.

 

[mojokabobo]

I'm sorry, I have not taken the time to read through all of this extensive thread, so I am not sure if I'm repeating something here...

I want to start by saying that I recognize that the way the system is set up that it is sometimes more beneficial to make less money, because the less money you make, the more social support you will receive; because of this, sometimes it does hurt to move up the pay scale. I recognize that.

There is something interesting to the OP's situation though.. it is fundamentally different than my own, lol. My wife earned her degree in 2007. Between 2003 and 2007 I worked full time, while she worked part time and went through college. Between 2007 and December of 2012, I went to school and worked part time while she worked full time. Because we offset our schoolings, we both were able to graduate essentially debt free. I paid off the only 2000 dollar loan I had to take last month. For posterity, I would like to note that the only year that I filed for grants (pell grants) was my final year of college, as we were getting strapped for cash at that time since we had recently invested a hefty amount of our savings into buying a house (we were able to put down 75k of savings, 25k I had amassed between 2003 and 2009, and 50k my wife had amassed and inherited (half of which was from her father dying)).

So.. here we are... 9 years into our relationship and we do not have any college loans, we are paying off only about 30k more in house loans (sitting pretty at 315 a month), have about 1k left of our hospital bill from our first child in April, we have never (though we qualified) taken food stamps, WIC, medicare, etc.. and our combined yearly income sits at around 40k (my wife didn't really accept a job in her degree field, more something that she just enjoyed doing, and that had great health insurance and a good daycare plan... those of course, are called offsetting costs... I, of course, am just beginning in my field). On top of that, we have 12k liquid between various savings and checkings (most spoken for, but not yet spent ie insurance house taxes etc), 20k ROTH, 2 other retirement accounts, and probably about 10k in valuables amassed.

Sir, if you and your wife are making 100k a year, and you are in debt... you fucked up somewhere along the line.

 

[AceNZ]

Tipping is charity, it's completely voluntary too.

You really equate tipping and charity?

Tipping is a reward for a job well done; it's payment for services rendered. Just because it's voluntary doesn't make it charity.

Charity is giving the unearned to people for no reason other than they need it.