My Neighbors Just Ate their Dog (Seriously). What is the libertarian stance on this?

Seems like this dude will be killing dogs for food for the rest of his life, much like many farmers kill their own pigs here in the states.
It seems like the prudent thing to do is to teach him a more humane/quick way to kill dogs since he will probably kill many more in the future.
Seems like strangling/hanging is a stupid method. A quick knife to the throat would be way more humane.

Such advice is probably the best you can do for your interest in the humane treatment of animals. You can also let him know, as a neighbor, that the torturous strangling method bothers you.

(Take this from a vegan, every individual will have a different threshold that they establish in regard to humane animal treatment. It is unwise to try and impose your arbitrary threshold on others with a lower threshold. There is likely someone else who thinks your personal threshold is offensive and you do not want them telling you what to do.)
 
Well there's your problem right here.

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Hey, if your religion keeps you from becoming a mass murderer then please stick with it.

Nice find.
It's what Nietzsche called 'weak morality'...imposed from the outside. I feel a little safer every Sunday morning because of it.
 
Nice find.
It's what Nietzsche called 'weak morality'...imposed from the outside. I feel a little safer every Sunday morning because of it.

Hey, whatever works to keep someone from going postal is fine with me :)

Personally I prefer Universal Mandatory Armament Laws myself, 'cause even the most rotten evil despicable bastard imaginable is more likely to behave if he knows everyone around him has the ability to kill him at any time.

Appealing to a persons rational self interest is a far safer bet than appealing to their morality.

There's actually a growing amount of research into the evolution of religion and belief in an afterlife, which as far as I can tell are essentially the same thing. The earliest evidence of such in humans starts at least 70,000 years ago in Neanderthals and became part of Homo sapiens culture some 60,000 years ago before the last diaspora of modern humans out of Africa.

Here's a link to the evidence for anyone interested.

That's why I like debating, I learn new things I would otherwise not be inclined to.
 
Living in Hawaii and being a Native Hawaiian has given me insight into things like this. It was common for Native Hawaiians to eat dog. It isn't done anymore to my knowledge, though I do hear about the occasional filipino eating one. I'm pretty sure it's illegal here, but from what I can see, it's the cultural lens we see everything through that affects our ability to cope with certain things. It's my understanding that life sustains life, and there's pretty much no way around it. Be it dog, shark, turtle, cat, snake or flower, rights extend to humans only; despite the fact that humans enjoy accommodating domesticated animals, which further exacerbates this issue.
 
dogs don't have rights, end of story.
First reply, 100% right, 100% complete. We're efficient here at RPF.

It is absolutely disgusting, but the dog is his property.

Just another reason why I am not against local ordinances that prohibit such things.
The dog is his property... and that's the reason why you're in favor of ordinances which violate his property rights? That is, you favor fiat decrees which partially steal his property and make it (the dog) into communal property, wherein that whole group of freaks we euphemise as "the community" now are made owners of the dog and must all (collectively!) make ultimate decisions over the use, treatment, and disposition of the property.

Logic...not...on... Please switch on logic.
 
I wouldn't do that to a dog unless I was starving and my life depended on it. The dog is there property and it was EATEN - mind your damn business.

If they were just torturing it for their own sadistic pleasure, I'd be prone to step in...
Men have the right, the absolute right, to be sadistic and sick, so long as they are not aggressing against anyone nor violating any contracts. A dog is not an "anyone." Men have the absolute right to torture animals for their own sadistic pleasure, or for any other reason, so long as either they own the animal or the animal's owner approves.

If you do not like this situation, the libertarian solution is to form or join a contract community wherein everyone agrees to not engage in animal cruelty, as you define it.
 
There's actually a growing amount of research into the evolution of religion and belief in an afterlife, which as far as I can tell are essentially the same thing.

IMO, religion exists because it's impossible for a self-aware creature to reconcile un-being.
 
First reply, 100% right, 100% complete. We're efficient here at RPF.

The dog is his property... and that's the reason why you're in favor of ordinances which violate his property rights? That is, you favor fiat decrees which partially steal his property and make it (the dog) into communal property, wherein that whole group of freaks we euphemise as "the community" now are made owners of the dog and must all (collectively!) make ultimate decisions over the use, treatment, and disposition of the property.

Logic...not...on... Please switch on logic.

So you support allowing people living in crowded urban areas to slaughter their own animals in their own homes in the plain view, hearing, and smelling of their neighbors?

What about processing their own sewage, or manufacturing their own explosives, or operating their own helicopter, or having a rock concert?

Anyone who can afford to do these things should be allowed to do them anywhere at anytime no matter what the consequences to other people's lives?

Which is why I can't understand anarchy. I agree with Ron Paul that we need to minimize laws and regulations and return power to more local governments, but I can't quite make the leap to complete anarchy where there is no rule of law and no expectation of any community standards.
 
IMO, religion exists because it's impossible for a self-aware creature to reconcile un-being.

Happens to me most every night when I sleep.

I was 'un-being' for billions of years before I was born and it never bothered me a bit.
 
Happens to me most every night when I sleep.

I was 'un-being' for billions of years before I was born and it never bothered me a bit.

Mazel Tov! You are one of the few! In my experience, most people fear death.
 
Mazel Tov! You are one of the few! In my experience, most people fear death.

Oh I fear death, but not so much that the idea doesn't just piss me off more than anything else. And makes me sad.

There's just so much to learn and love, and I don't feel I've hardly gotten started yet.

But I have zero fear of any sort of hell or judgement or afterlife, it's just not even something I worry about and it confuses me why others do.

Maybe they feel guilty for being born or something, I don't know.

I say I'm not religious but if you are willing to leave it at god is love then that covers me well enough.



Brings me to tears every time I listen.
 
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So you support allowing people living in crowded urban areas to slaughter their own animals in their own homes in the plain view, hearing, and smelling of their neighbors?
I personally support people doing whatever they like, because what's very important to me is that I be allowed to do whatever I like without being robbed and kidnapped.

What about processing their own sewage, or manufacturing their own explosives, or operating their own helicopter, or having a rock concert?
For my own part, absolutely. I'm very tolerant.

It goes back to homesteading theory. Who got there first? That determines everything. If Mick Jagger moved in first, no one was around, and he's been holding rock concerts all along, then he has obtained an easement consisting of the right to give off loud vibrations. He homesteaded the noise rights, see, just like he homesteaded the rights to the land when he built his rock palace atop it. He wasn't violating anyone's rights at the time, because no one else was even around to violate. Let's say now a new neighbor moves in who starts a library and objects to the melodious tones wafting over. But can he demand the rocking and rolling to stop and thus get satisfaction that way? No. When he homesteaded the property, he was homesteading "dirty" property so to speak. The easement was already established. If he now wants the property to be "clean", he must approach Mick and pay him or otherwise convince him to relinquish the easement. Otherwise he can't get no satisfaction, not morally.

If, on the other hand, the librarian was there first, he has the right to the quiet and Jagger must pay up to gain the right to upset the existing order.

To look at it another way, either stopping existing noise or stopping existing quiet is upsetting an existing and established order. The established order has the right of way. The newcomer has no automatic right to supplant it. Any new order must buy out the rights-holders of the existing order.

These things -- in the past, today, and in probable future scenarios -- are largely determined by convention. Convention is powerful. What constitutes aggression does not always have a precise and obvious answer. A libertarian society could form in which having body odor in public was considered aggression and punished heavily. Yes, your offensive molecules are going out and accosting the sensory organs of innocents. It clearly could be considered aggression. I would not want to live in a society of such prissies, but that is just a subjective aesthetic preference.



Anyone who can afford to do these things should be allowed to do them anywhere at anytime no matter what the consequences to other people's lives?
Anyone who can afford to stop these things should be allowed to stop them anywhere at anytime no matter what the consequences to other people's lives?

Neither is the correct answer. Sometimes the doers have the right of way, sometimes the stoppers. If we all respect each other's rights, we are able to resolve even the most sticky of these situations with a minimum of conflict.

Which is why I can't understand anarchy. I agree with Ron Paul that we need to minimize laws and regulations and return power to more local governments, but I can't quite make the leap to complete anarchy where there is no rule of law and no expectation of any community standards.
Your uneasiness does not have to do with the leap to anarchy, per se. That leap is the leap to accepting that security, defense, and judicial services can be provided on a free market. Your difficulty in seeing how order could emerge without arbitrary nuisance laws is a difficulty which exists under minarchy as well. Under minarchy there's just one monopoly justice vendor making sure the librarian doesn't violate Mick Jagger's rights, and under anarchy there's multiple competing vendors, that's the only difference. Both libertarian minarchy and anarchy uphold actual rights -- either Mick's or the librarian's -- and neither will violate their rights with arbitrary property-rights-trampling decrees.
 
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Personally I prefer Universal Mandatory Armament Laws myself, 'cause even the most rotten evil despicable bastard imaginable is more likely to behave if he knows everyone around him has the ability to kill him at any time.

Mandatory? Forcing everyone to be armed is just as bad as forcing everyone to be unarmed. It's dictatorship in both cases.
 
You also violated basic a basic rule of human decency. Its tough for me to say who was worse in this situation. You approached the police about a situation before approaching your neighbor and resolving the issue one-on-one. You've created quite a lot of hostility by doing what you did, so you should apologize. And since your neighbor does not have a problem eating dogs, you won't get an apology in return. That was a terrible idea. Offer him a few chickens in replacement for the puppy if you don't want the puppy to die too but for some reason don't mind him eating chickens. Just adding in my 2 cents worth.
 
pigs are smarter than dogs and easier to train . just sayin .

if the dog was raised to be eaten its ok . if it was raised as a pet but eaten thats weird , but should not be illegal . i dont agree with the way the dog was being put down so there may be a legal issue there (slaughtering should be done with as little pain as possible) .

if you think it is ok to do this to 1 animal and not another you are a hypocrite . all meat other than our own is fair game . that is just life .

p.s. cruelty and neglect of animals in a pet or farm setting is illegal and should be enforced .
 
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Mandatory? Forcing everyone to be armed is just as bad as forcing everyone to be unarmed. It's dictatorship in both cases.

UMAL sounds better than UAL.

Children would be exempt, and I suppose there are some who are so feeble minded that they couldn't be trusted not to stupidly shoot themselves or others, but I'd much rather be on this side of the argument than the other.

No, not mandatory, but it gets the point across.

"May I see your firearm please..."
 
Just because the human mind is our only reference, doesn't mean that is THE only reference. This is a very narrow-minded approach. Even with your excuse, it still uses the confirmation bias by ignoring other possible frameworks for interpreting information that does not indicate in any way that your preconceived notions about the origins of human life are, in fact, true.

Your use of the word "coincidence" is misleading since it suggests there was a relationship in the first place. There are two ways to interpret the fact that humans and animals have similar traits. One is that they were all sprung from the primordial ooze, the other is that the same guy made them, God. Confirmation bias is a big problem because it encourages the use of facts that may not have anything to do with what you think it does in reality. Confirmation bias is a serious issue that has permeated and affected science and scientists for years. Good scientists know to avoid it, but evolutionary interpretation of fossils and geologic records basically requires it. The use of the world "species" in your post is also telling because it is a clear demonstration that you are putting these animals into categories, but you never stopped to think who is deciding what separates these stories, or maybe you do know and you just agree. In either case, it is a fatal conceit that also demonstrates confirmation bias.

It doesn't matter how objectively you think you are looking at an issue. If you interpret things with a preconceived notion that they happened a certain way, then you will come up with evidence that fits your theory when, in fact, it may suit a thousand different theories as well.

ETA: The confirmation bias doesn't just affect scientists... it affects everyone in almost every facet of life, and it has affected everyone since the beginning of our existence.

How do you know your not a victim of confirmation bias?

Your example here suggests "primordial ooze" in a negative light. And then you mention that nice guy God...

See, I can play word games to.

Only difference here is, I am open minded and willing to read any anti-evolution literature/documentary etc. Like I said in the post which you misquoted, I am fully aware that scientists make mistakes or lie about "species".

Watch the documentary on the Bonobos by Nova and I will watch/read whatever you suggest.
 
Sorry, but why not use some social pressure instead of a local tyranny?

Tell your neighbor that this is unacceptable to you, and even though it is his property you will not deal with him if he continues. Put up local ads telling your other neighbors about what you've witnessed. Try to inform dog dealers so that they won't sell dogs to him.

There are millions of ways to get him to stop without pulling the power of the gun on him - either a federal, state, local, or personal gun.

Peaceful means may not work, but you should exhaust them. Only then should you ask yourself "is aggression justified". If it is, you don't need the state to do it for you.

Good Gawd. Even Tom Woods agrees there should be laws.
 
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