My Neighbors Just Ate their Dog (Seriously). What is the libertarian stance on this?

I can get around the cultural differences on what is considered food if we were on Chuuk, but there was nothing quick or humane about the "slaughter." From initially hearing the sounds to seeing it had to be at least 45 seconds. But it doesn't make any sense for it to be ok to abuse an animal just because I am about to eat it but illegal to abuse that same animal in other cases.

And I was just minding my own business in my own house until I heard some horrible animal sounds outside coming from the direction of their house but still possibly on my property or caught on the fencing between until I went outside and saw that shit.

There is a little bit of history too with the neighbors. We've had to stop their kids from coming over and taunting our own dog (which we were relieved to finally get off the island yesterday), and throwing rocks at another neighbor's cow while it was tangled up. They also regularly kick and beat their dogs (all puppies because we have yet to see a dog make it to 1 year old there) with sticks all in plain view so its not like we are being nosy. We have tried to tell their children that they should treat animals nicely since they can't defend themselves when they came over to watch us put up X-mas lights. The adults are usually nowhere to be found.

The joy with which one of the kids does this shit and watches his uncle (the one killing the dog) is sociopath, future rapist/murderer stuff. Seriously chilling to my wife and I. And of course my concerns that if we did call the police, we would just be ignored and create a tense situation with the neighbors was confirmed. But just couldn't stand by and let it happen. At least we'll be out of here Tuesday...

Deliberate cruelty to any living creature, causing it to suffer needlessly is abominable, and shouldn't be tolerated by the community, imo. I don't care if it's an insect. You were right to act on your conscience.
 
It is absolutely disgusting, but the dog is his property.

Just another reason why I am not against local ordinances that prohibit such things.

To which you replied:
First reply, 100% right, 100% complete. We're efficient here at RPF.

The dog is his property... and that's the reason why you're in favor of ordinances which violate his property rights? That is, you favor fiat decrees which partially steal his property and make it (the dog) into communal property, wherein that whole group of freaks we euphemise as "the community" now are made owners of the dog and must all (collectively!) make ultimate decisions over the use, treatment, and disposition of the property.

Logic...not...on... Please switch on logic.

And then later affirmed LE's response by stating:

If you do not like this situation, the libertarian solution is to form or join a contract community wherein everyone agrees to not engage in animal cruelty, as you define it.

How bout YOU take your own advice and try being a little less rude next time. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry, but why not use some social pressure instead of a local tyranny?

Tell your neighbor that this is unacceptable to you, and even though it is his property you will not deal with him if he continues. Put up local ads telling your other neighbors about what you've witnessed. Try to inform dog dealers so that they won't sell dogs to him.

There are millions of ways to get him to stop without pulling the power of the gun on him - either a federal, state, local, or personal gun.

Peaceful means may not work, but you should exhaust them. Only then should you ask yourself "is aggression justified". If it is, you don't need the state to do it for you.

good point
 
pigs are smarter than dogs and easier to train . just sayin .

if the dog was raised to be eaten its ok . if it was raised as a pet but eaten thats weird , but should not be illegal . i dont agree with the way the dog was being put down so there may be a legal issue there (slaughtering should be done with as little pain as possible) .

if you think it is ok to do this to 1 animal and not another you are a hypocrite . all meat other than our own is fair game . that is just life .

p.s. cruelty and neglect of animals in a pet or farm setting is illegal and should be enforced .

All I have to say about that is if anyone ever tries to eat my dog they're gonna have a real big problam on their hands and that after I had a BLT
 
Does anyone else find it weird to hear a living thing referred to as property? I don't think there's anything wrong with taking an animal under your care to raise as a pet or for food so as long as the animal is not treated cruelly. Defenseless animals should not be abused by people, they should be protected against such by legal rights.
 
Dog owners can be some of the most irresponsible, self righteous, mean-spirited, and self indulgent of people. Having said that, why does a canine deserve more respect than a bovine?
 
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Good Gawd. Even Tom Woods agrees there should be laws.
And I think you do not understand what he means when he says that. This theory is then confirmed by:

To which you replied:

stealing property not OK

And then later affirmed LE's response by stating:

contract communities are OK

How bout YOU take your own advice and try being a little less rude next time. :rolleyes:
A post in which you miss the distinction between "local ordinance" and "contract community". Libertarians aren't opposed to rules. We're opposed to illegitimate rules, made by those with no legitimate authority. People have the right to make whatever contracts they like, and contracts may bind people to follow any number of restrictive rules.
 
Your neighbor is sick in the head. Anyone who eats an animal which doesn't even taste good (I've heard) and slaughters it so cruelly has something wrong with them. I get what everyone is saying about animals not having rights and how it's weird for us to eat dog but to them it's like eating cow but that is just some fucked up stuff to do to any animal. I would never string up a deer,cow, or pig and beat it to death.

If I saw someone doing that to a dog...fuck private property rights. I just couldn't allow that to happen. I'd feel like hell for the rest of my life for allowing something so cruel to happen with my knowledge and to know that I did nothing. Someone who can treat a defenseless animal so badly and enjoy will probably act the same way to people.

boxer1.jpg


dogs-on-crete%2521.jpg
 
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There's no difference between eating a dog or a cow, chicken, pig or whatever. If he must eat it, I wish he had just shot it in the head so it would die much quicker and suffer less.
 
There's no difference between eating a dog or a cow, chicken, pig or whatever. If he must eat it, I wish he had just shot it in the head so it would die much quicker and suffer less.

Right and that is why there is so much dog in the meat section at my local grocery store. Even countries who eat dog consider it to be so nasty that only a few people who have lived in the country for a long time and consider it a delicacy will eat it and they hide the places that sell it from tourist areas and the "farms" are usually not anywhere near the populated areas.

If it's so normal to eat dog then why is everything chicken, beef, pork when I type in "Guam cuisine" to Google?

http://www.travellady.com/Issues/Issue60/chamorro.htm
 
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Right and that is why there is so much dog in the meat section at my local grocery store. Even countries who eat dog consider it to be so nasty that only a few people who have lived in the country for a long time and consider it a delicacy will eat it and they hide the places that sell it from tourist areas and the "farms" are usually not anywhere near the populated areas.

The difference is only that people project their feelings on animals and take them as "pets". Logically there is no difference. Culturally we are used to thinking of dogs and cats as human-like because we project our feelings on them, amplifying whatever limited natural feelings they already have. In essence, its nasty to you because you're not used to it.
 
The difference is only that people project their feelings on animals and take them as "pets". Logically there is no difference. Culturally we are used to thinking of dogs and cats as human-like because we project our feelings on them, amplifying whatever limited natural feelings they already have. In essence, its nasty to you because you're not used to it.

People who have tried it describe it as sinewy and very chewy and it has to be heavily seasoned...so why even eat it? I saw a documentary on this once and in Korea they went around and asked a bunch of people if they ate dog and they could only find one person who did. Young people seemed especially disgusted at the idea of eating it. My main point isn't even about eating the dog but how cruelly he treated it. If you don't view the animal as a pet but instead as livestock then for God's sake kill it like it is.
 
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To promote some understanding of another fellow human being and their quest for protein.

Don't like it? At least try to understand it.

Love the tax angle.:)

Tyranny and dog meat? Yelp... I mean yep.


http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2009/08/dog-its-whats-for-dinner.html
Ask A Korean


...But dog meat-abolitionists of Korea often argue that this indicates the Korean law’s recognition that dogs are not for eating. On the other hand, however, the National Tax Board of Korea issued an opinion that dog meat restaurants may receive the same tax treatment for their purchase of dog meat as, say, the tax treatment that a barbecue restaurant receives for its purchase of beef. So it’s fair to say that this issue is muddled.

Several years ago, there was some attempt on the part of Seoul city government to regulate dog meat processing in order to ensure it is processed in a hygienic manner. However, the vocal minority vigorously opposed the “legalization” of dog meat, and the idea was dropped.

Q: How are the dogs raised and slaughtered?
A: Because Livestock Processing Act does not cover dog meat, dog-ranchers (so to speak) and dog meat sellers essentially go for the raising/slaughtering method that generates maximum profit. This generally leads to unsightly living conditions for edible dogs, similar to those of pigs or chickens in industrialized farming in the U.S., only in a smaller scale. Dogs are raised in a small cage and sold alive until they get to meat market. Then they are generally electrocuted before being processed and shipped to restaurants.


Q: Is it true that the dogs are tortured before they are killed?
A: Again, because Livestock Processing Act does not cover dog meat, there is no restriction about how to kill a dog for meat. At the meat market, the need to slaughter the dogs quickly usually means dogs are electrocuted, similar to cattle. However, especially in rural areas where people slaughter dogs to cook and eat on their own, the common method is to hang the dog and beat it to death, in an attempt to tenderize the meat. (This, however, may be counterproductive; while beating the meat does tenderize it, an animal that dies in a stressed state generally produces tougher and less tasty meat.) A figurative expression in Korean for a severe beating is “like beating a dog on bok day.”
 
To promote some understanding of another fellow human being and their quest for protein.

Don't like it? At least try to understand it.

Love the tax angle.:)

Tyranny and dog meat? Yelp... I mean yep.


http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2009/08/dog-its-whats-for-dinner.html
Ask A Korean


...But dog meat-abolitionists of Korea often argue that this indicates the Korean law’s recognition that dogs are not for eating. On the other hand, however, the National Tax Board of Korea issued an opinion that dog meat restaurants may receive the same tax treatment for their purchase of dog meat as, say, the tax treatment that a barbecue restaurant receives for its purchase of beef. So it’s fair to say that this issue is muddled.

Several years ago, there was some attempt on the part of Seoul city government to regulate dog meat processing in order to ensure it is processed in a hygienic manner. However, the vocal minority vigorously opposed the “legalization” of dog meat, and the idea was dropped.

Q: How are the dogs raised and slaughtered?
A: Because Livestock Processing Act does not cover dog meat, dog-ranchers (so to speak) and dog meat sellers essentially go for the raising/slaughtering method that generates maximum profit. This generally leads to unsightly living conditions for edible dogs, similar to those of pigs or chickens in industrialized farming in the U.S., only in a smaller scale. Dogs are raised in a small cage and sold alive until they get to meat market. Then they are generally electrocuted before being processed and shipped to restaurants.


Q: Is it true that the dogs are tortured before they are killed?
A: Again, because Livestock Processing Act does not cover dog meat, there is no restriction about how to kill a dog for meat. At the meat market, the need to slaughter the dogs quickly usually means dogs are electrocuted, similar to cattle. However, especially in rural areas where people slaughter dogs to cook and eat on their own, the common method is to hang the dog and beat it to death, in an attempt to tenderize the meat. (This, however, may be counterproductive; while beating the meat does tenderize it, an animal that dies in a stressed state generally produces tougher and less tasty meat.) A figurative expression in Korean for a severe beating is “like beating a dog on bok day.”

I tried to understand it and I failed. Specifically because of the bold parts.
 
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Am I going to hell for laughing at your post?


To promote some understanding of another fellow human being and their quest for protein.

Don't like it? At least try to understand it.

Love the tax angle.:)

Tyranny and dog meat? Yelp... I mean yep.


http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2009/08/dog-its-whats-for-dinner.html
Ask A Korean


...But dog meat-abolitionists of Korea often argue that this indicates the Korean law’s recognition that dogs are not for eating. On the other hand, however, the National Tax Board of Korea issued an opinion that dog meat restaurants may receive the same tax treatment for their purchase of dog meat as, say, the tax treatment that a barbecue restaurant receives for its purchase of beef. So it’s fair to say that this issue is muddled.

Several years ago, there was some attempt on the part of Seoul city government to regulate dog meat processing in order to ensure it is processed in a hygienic manner. However, the vocal minority vigorously opposed the “legalization” of dog meat, and the idea was dropped.

Q: How are the dogs raised and slaughtered?
A: Because Livestock Processing Act does not cover dog meat, dog-ranchers (so to speak) and dog meat sellers essentially go for the raising/slaughtering method that generates maximum profit. This generally leads to unsightly living conditions for edible dogs, similar to those of pigs or chickens in industrialized farming in the U.S., only in a smaller scale. Dogs are raised in a small cage and sold alive until they get to meat market. Then they are generally electrocuted before being processed and shipped to restaurants.


Q: Is it true that the dogs are tortured before they are killed?
A: Again, because Livestock Processing Act does not cover dog meat, there is no restriction about how to kill a dog for meat. At the meat market, the need to slaughter the dogs quickly usually means dogs are electrocuted, similar to cattle. However, especially in rural areas where people slaughter dogs to cook and eat on their own, the common method is to hang the dog and beat it to death, in an attempt to tenderize the meat. (This, however, may be counterproductive; while beating the meat does tenderize it, an animal that dies in a stressed state generally produces tougher and less tasty meat.) A figurative expression in Korean for a severe beating is “like beating a dog on bok day.”
 
I can get around the cultural differences on what is considered food if we were on Chuuk, but there was nothing quick or humane about the "slaughter." From initially hearing the sounds to seeing it had to be at least 45 seconds. But it doesn't make any sense for it to be ok to abuse an animal just because I am about to eat it but illegal to abuse that same animal in other cases.

And I was just minding my own business in my own house until I heard some horrible animal sounds outside coming from the direction of their house but still possibly on my property or caught on the fencing between until I went outside and saw that shit.

There is a little bit of history too with the neighbors. We've had to stop their kids from coming over and taunting our own dog (which we were relieved to finally get off the island yesterday), and throwing rocks at another neighbor's cow while it was tangled up. They also regularly kick and beat their dogs (all puppies because we have yet to see a dog make it to 1 year old there) with sticks all in plain view so its not like we are being nosy. We have tried to tell their children that they should treat animals nicely since they can't defend themselves when they came over to watch us put up X-mas lights. The adults are usually nowhere to be found.

The joy with which one of the kids does this shit and watches his uncle (the one killing the dog) is sociopath, future rapist/murderer stuff. Seriously chilling to my wife and I. And of course my concerns that if we did call the police, we would just be ignored and create a tense situation with the neighbors was confirmed. But just couldn't stand by and let it happen. At least we'll be out of here Tuesday...

Have you ever lived on a farm? Please stop judging people. The videos are out there if you really want to see how livestock is treated in THIS county, LEGALLY. Enjoy, you have been warned.
 
While eating dogs should be as legal as eating anything else, I am not comfortable with the notion that conscious beings can rightly be considered property of a sort completely indistinguishable from an inanimate object like a chair or a rug; that is, I am inclined to support ordinances prohibiting out-and-out torture and abuse of animals (such as suspending them by a rope to slowly, painfully wheeze to death).
 
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