My Homeowner association requesting Ron Paul yard signs be taken down!!!

When you feel like it, sit in your yard in a lawn chair and hold the sign up as people pass......your own personal sign wave. What could they do about that?
 
mweldon said:
Apparently my homeowner's association has put forth a more or less direct challenge to my display of a Ron Paul for President campaign sign in my yard.

Yesterday in the mail I received the quarterly homeowners newsletter which contained a section that read as follows:

SIGNS

Please be reminded of Paragraph 6.8, a portion of which reads:
"6.8.1 No signs whatsoever (including but not limited to commercial and similar signs) shll, withouth the architectural commitee's prior written approval of plans and specifications therefore, be installed, altered or maintained on any lLot, or on any portion of a Structure visible from the exterior thereof."

The Board, and previous Boards, think that this prohibition includes political signs, so please do not place political signs in your yards."

First, my yard is the ONLY yard in my 96 lot subdivision that has a political sign of any type. So it is fairly obvious who this section is directed against.

Second, I cannot base any counter argument to this based on federal or state constitutional law regarding free speech or violation of public policy as every home owner association covenant agreement forcibly removes all remedy to the covenants via a constitutional path. (yes I'm a dummy, but go read your home owner covenants and 99% chance yours does the same thing. The next house I purchase will either not be in a subdivision or I will explicitly not sign or partially sign the next set) Please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

Third, there have been numerous commercial signs placed on lots throughout the neighborhood in the past without homeowner policy enforcement. However enforcement seems to be highly subjective and at the whim of the Homeowners Association. Once again please see (BRYAN v. MBC PARTNERS, L.P.)

However, as pre-law student at one time, the statement of "including but no limited to" is a phrase/term of "limited expansion". Which can be defined that as the term “expansion” applies to things that are already generally described in the definition of whatever is being defined, even if a thing is not specifically named in the definition. For example, in the context of "dinner", dinner will be defined as including but not limited to apples, pears, peaches, and bananas. Therefore one can bring in additional items such as mangos, kiwis, grapes etc... as those items are similar in nature to the list, however, broccili, steak, potato's etc.. cannot due to their nature being manifestly different that the stated list of terms.

Ok given this, the Homeowners Association can only restrict signs of a commercial nature so I plan on writing a brief and polite rebuttal inquiring to the legal definition of the statement "commercial and similar signs" with regards to the afore mentioned definition of the term.

If this path is less than fruitful, I can always put up a flag hanging off my house with Ron Paul < whatever > as it seems that people can adorn their lots with american, state, seasonal, or alma mater flags about their houses.

However, I cannot find a single vendor that sells Ron Paul flags of any substantial size. Any help here would be appreciated.

Anyone else encounter these types of Home Owner issues, actions, etc..??

I will at this time refrain from giving out the Home Owner Associations email address for Paul'er comments unless a remedy of some sort cannot be achieved. :D

Thoughts? Comments?
Click to expand...

Put up a "For Sale" sign without listing the property. And put Ron Paul for president on half the sign.
 
buy a tarp and put it on your roof as a monster sign saying Ron Paul for President 2008 :D
 
Crickett said:
Besides other suggestions like car, window, etc. notice that your CURRENT board "has decided" to interpret the rules to mean no temporary political signs. I think you could maybe ask for a hearing in front of them, on this issue if you wanted to, but I definitely would attempt to become active there, and get on the board if you do not want to move. We must infiltrate from the bottom up, and just think how many people you may influence--especially if they let you do a
hearing, and you give a passionate speech about how RP will save America and the economy and that is why, as a patriot , you just really want to put the temporary sign there..
Click to expand...


Very Good Advise. I was going to post that usually, the HOA allows political signs within the timeframe of the election.

Usually there are exceptions for political signs during election and "For Sale" signs when a home is for sale.
 
Just as an FYI, the HOA *CANNOT* take your house away from you.

I am currently living in a HOA-sponsored neighborhood and I have a sign out, and I am waiting to see if they say anything about the sign. I will respectfully ignore the letter, if any comes, as long as possible and wait till after the primary by procrastinating. If it goes further than that, they have to at least warn you of any kind of action and give you plenty of time to comply with the rules before they can proceed with any legal action. They can't just say "Oh, he has a sign in his yard" and then take you to court and expect you to pay all of the attorney's fees. You can easily argue that you werent given enough notice to comply with the order, etc etc to warrant not having to pay the fine.

If I recall correctly, post-litigation (if it gets that far), the most that they can do is place a lien on your property that only will show up if you try to sell your home. Once you comply with the terms of the lien by removing the sign then it can be lifted and you are able to sell your house (which by the time it goes through the whole process, would probably be after the primary and possibly after the general election)...so stop thinking they can take your house, because they cannot physically force you out of your home, they can only place a lien on it that will prevent you from selling it. But if you don't plan on selling anytime soon, then you are ok and can possibly buy enough time before the election to keep the sign out.
 
Last edited:
The state in which you live may have interfered with your right to contract with an HOA with regard to political signs. Arizona recently enacted a law that invalidates restrictions on political signs contained in HOA agreements.

What state do you live in?

Here's a list of states (and links to their laws) re: invalidating HOA rules prohibiting political signs during an election year:

Washington (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.38.034)

Texas (http://law.justia.com/texas/codes/pr/011.00.000202.00.html)

Arizona (http://www.azleg.gov/ars/33/01808.htm)

New Jersey (http://www.aclu-nj.org/legal/legaldocket/committeeforabettertwinriv.htm) (state court decision)

California (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&group=01001-02000&file=1352-1353.8) (Civil Code section 1353.6)
 
Last edited:
If you're in Texas, the state law allowing political signs 90 days before an election (primaries included) trumps any HOA CCR's. Check with your state rep if you're not in Texas.
 
There has been a few threads on homeowners association problems on these forums, lurk for them a bit might have some answers.
 
I hate my association. I didn't know what the rules were when I signed, they conveniently left that part out.

You can get away with things for as long as about 3 months, believe me, I know although it could happen faster.

I have considered moving out and renting to some unsavory individuals. Just to make trouble!

They recently kicked a family out after a portion of the neighborhood put signs on the families lawn that were racially inapropriate. It was sad!

Our property values have only gone down and we have nothing to show for it but a worthless house because we can't do anything with it based on the rules and cant sell it due to the housing bubble.

If I could, I would sell it for 30k less than I bought if for and pay the difference over time.

Please, Please, Please don't buy in HOA's, you only support the cause of all we are against.

That being said, I have RP signs in all of my front facing windows and have never had a problem with other such signs in the past.

Good Luck!!!
 
Convert the Architectural Review Board!

Put up a for sale sign, then staple the RP sign on that!
The ron paul realty group...see ronpaul2008.com

Educate the people providing protest...they'll come around if they understand the basics of the deteriorating state of the Union!
Be NICE
Be SANE
NO Conspiracy stuff, just facts...
  • Economy (money devalued by printing it from thin air, and how that drives down property value in your exclusive neighborhood ;) ) [is that wrong ]
  • War
  • subsidized illegal immigration
You get the idea...bring them into the light!
 
No signs? Do any of your neighbors have one of those stupid signs in front of their house advertising which security system their home uses? If so, if they every come and tell you to take down your sign, ask if they are going to make those other people take down their signs too.
 
Do a supreme court case law search on sign ordinances, try Ladue vs Gilleo. There are numerous cases to study. They are lenghty in most cases. I am fighting city of Springfield Il. over my signs. They are citing them as over sized. City allows 12 sq. ft, mine are 16 sq. ft. Had 2 but now I have 4. The ordinance is unconstitutional as it is written. The city can make changes and would be upheld in supreme court. But as it is written now I think I can beat the city ordinance. I will be going to my 3rd and final court appearance the day after Super Tuesday. I will probably be fined the max by now which is $750.00 plus atty & crt costs and then must appeal to an appelate court. I plan on posting the whole affair in the next few days (tomorrow LOL)

Through my studies I found most supreme court cases upheld association and subdivision covenants as they are not city codes that must apply to everyone. Asociations, etc., is treated as independant private agreements between property owners and not with the city and property owners or visa versa owners with the city.

So long as you accepted the terms for living in that subdivision you will have to comply.

But if you lived within a city limit and not a part of an association, then you could challange the constitutionallity of the ordinance as limiting freedom of speech and property owners rights. As I see with my case, this is going to start getting costly.

It's a tough decision to make, submitt or fight, I know. Best to you. Cal
 
Last edited:
OK

Redcard said:
This has nothing to do with city ordinances.. but a contract the OP entered willingly when he purchased his house.

When you sign something, folks ,READ IT.
Click to expand...

I think that is what I said wasn't it? So what's your point?

I state case law to get the search started should anyone desire to do this. What you will find is that many situations and other types of similar violations are touched upon in upholding or striking down many arguments. There is a lot to know about these sign ordinances and association agreements and what rights are granted to whom for anyone needing to find these things out.
 
Cal Mabus said:
I think that is what I said wasn't it? So what's your point?

I state case law to get the search started should anyone desire to do this. What you will find is that many situations and other types of similar violations are touched upon in upholding or striking down many arguments. There is a lot to know about these sign ordinances and association agreements and what rights are granted to whom for anyone needing to find these things out.
Click to expand...

I think the point that was trying to be made is that sign ordinances and association agreements/bylaws are exclusive of one another; they are like oil and water and caselaw for one cannot be used to support an argument for the other. Sign ordinances are local government laws while association bylaws is a contract. Therefore, the contract principles will apply to association bylaws instead of prior caselaw regarding local government sign ordinances.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Swordsmyth
Trump Targets American Bar Association Accreditation Power
2
Replies
39
Views
219
Firestarter
Firestarter
Weston White
Large capacity mag definition in California
Replies
4
Views
54
oyarde
O
PAF
“Hate Speech” Isn’t Real and Pam Bondi Is an Enemy of Freedom
Replies
0
Views
543
PAF
PAF
osan
Freedom Isn't Easy, Nor Should It Be
Replies
1
Views
283
TheTexan
TheTexan
PAF
Selling the Public Lands
Replies
0
Views
73
PAF
PAF
Back
Top