My experience with US Customs

[low preference guy]

Your lambasting of the forums is harsh and a bit naive.

I disagree. If people can't help him with his question, that is, how to recover the goods, they have nothing to contribute to the thread and are hijacking it. Saying how glad they are he lost his goods and that the government should've stolen them is really lame.

 

[rolirn]

Dude your acting like a fucking troll. Call the customs agent and ask them if it is ok to import your shrooms, if they say no then fight them in court if you feel so strongly about it. Don't come in here on your first post asking for customs advise from people who really are not qualified to help and then when they try and give their opinion turn the whole fucking thing into a slam against you.

Robertwerden,

I think I know what “trolling” is, but I can’t see how I’m doing it. Am I posing an issue that is contrary to the forum theme? If this is some kind of anti-import forum, I wasn’t aware. Seems to me this not only fits the forum, but also the subforum.

Believe me, I have called Customs many times over this. In fact, I had imported these mushrooms for years previous with no problem. There is nothing published that prohibits these from importation. And as far as “court”, I have also been fighting that fight (although, as I said, it’s not actually a real court).

As far as your next critique, that I came here and on my first post with questions about something that no one is qualified to help with, I guess I didn’t realize that was an offense. Besides, how would I know whether anyone here was qualified, until I asked?

As far as your last critique, that I turned this into a slam against me, I don’t know what you are talking about.

Anyway, if you would a little more precise about what you are opposing, it would be nice.

 

[rolirn]

First off, importing plants/plant matter/seeds of any sort is strictly regulated. There is good reason for this, and you have to get appropriate permissions/licenses to do so, and it'd obviously need to be inspected. I hesitatingly approve of controlling what plants/wildlife/fungi, etc is allowed into the country. The Great Lakes up my way have been over-run with zebra mussels (from China), and some other weird fish that I can't remember the name of right now...Steph3n's example of kudzu is a good one.

Do I think that they're completely reasonable about what they do and don't allow? Of course not, but I have to question how smart it is to try and bring them into the country, manage to get off without getting arrested and then still obsess about your 2.5 year-old fungi.

What I think would be fair is if you paid a storage fee and were able to retrieve your property upon returning to whatever country you came from.

And no, cops shouldn't be able to "seize" anything, they should return property to their rightful owners if stolen.

Amy,

I already had obtained the appropriate “licenses/permission” to import this material. I had been importing it for years with no problem. “Inspections” were common, but this shipment was not seized for any such reason. It was not deemed to be any kind of threat to the environment.

Why do you characterize me as not being smart, and criticize me for opposing an unlawful seizure? I don’t understand.

I’m not clear on what you mean by paying storage fees and retrieving property. I “came from”, and reside in, this country (USA).

It’s good that you don’t think cops should seize anything they want. So why are you opposing me for opposing this unlawful seizure? I am really starting to think I made a mistake to come here.

 

[rolirn]

Your ornamental mushrooms have probably been destroyed.

If you can research online and provide proof to them that this should not have been done, then go right ahead, and I support your efforts to try to obtain some sort of compensation. First, though, you really should get your ducks in a row BEFORE you attempt to import things. You have already admitted you have no idea what is on the "banned" list of imported items. This is your first stumble.

Your lambasting of the forums is harsh and a bit naive. While we would all love for there to be a larger number of freedoms, and for you to be able to put in a successful claim if your property has been wrongly destroyed, we recognize that we live in the here and now. If you are going to base your entire business on importation of ornamental mushrooms (that can be picked here in the US, so I'm not sure what your profit margin will be?), you should learn the rules before trying to ship them here. This would be true if a state controlled its own borders, too, as many states would be wary of importing fungi, decorative or not.

I have already provided much proof, filed in lengthy documents. And I already had my “ducks in a row”, prior to the import. I only said that I didn’t know what’s on their UNPUBLISHED list of banned imports (list of things they can’t legally restrict). My point was that, even if it would be possible to see that purely-speculated list (it would not), it’s not any kind of legitimate list. IOW, it’s no basis for seizure. No “stumble” on my part.

Where was I “lambasting” the forums? Surely you have misunderstood something I wrote. Maybe if you pointed it out, I could defend the comment.

Regarding your question about the business sense of the import, that’s a very short answer: because importing was cheaper than any other alternative.

It is incorrect to say that I did not know the rules. I did. I am here because the gov doesn’t seem to be following the rules.

But your last comment is the most curious. Why do you think “many states would be wary of importing fungi, decorative or not”. Is there something inherently negative about fungi that I am unaware of, or is it just “fungophobia”?

 

[rolirn]

When it comes to agriculture our customs have every right to prevent import of such, and very well SHOULD.

Steph,

I believe I have already indicated that this is not an “agriculture” item. Are you STILL claiming that Customs should prevent such an import? If so, why? What is your basis?

 

[MelissaWV]

Amy,

I already had obtained the appropriate “licenses/permission” to import this material. I had been importing it for years with no problem. “Inspections” were common, but this shipment was not seized for any such reason. It was not deemed to be any kind of threat to the environment.

Why do you characterize me as not being smart, and criticize me for opposing an unlawful seizure? I don’t understand.

I’m not clear on what you mean by paying storage fees and retrieving property. I “came from”, and reside in, this country (USA).

It’s good that you don’t think cops should seize anything they want. So why are you opposing me for opposing this unlawful seizure? I am really starting to think I made a mistake to come here.

This isn't an import/export forum... so I'm not sure what legal advice you thought you would get. That's why you're seeing a lot of about this.

Earlier you said you weren't familiar with lists of allowable and banned items. This implies a deep misunderstanding of the import/export process. Now you are saying you have knowledge of all the applicable guidelines, all the proper licenses, and the Government still trounced on you. That's a far cry from where you started.

Seriously, though; what is an ornamental mushroom?

 

[rolirn]

jeez, they guy was only asking if anyone could help him out not for judgement on his business or whether he was right to import those items or not. bit harsh..

out of curiosity, what is the value of your items. After 2.5 years will the items still be usable? and what are the mushrooms used for?

Lightai,

IIRC, the value was about $5K. It is questionable whether the items will still be usable for their intended purpose, decoration, depending on how well they have been stored. Lousy storage will cause them to lose their color.

Thanks for the defense and good questions.

 

[rolirn]

He said they are ornamental

The responses were fine, though. He was talking this up as if it were some terrible police action, but the reality is even without the Government you would likely have had these seized if you did not follow the given area's customs process. His only course of action is to demonstrate how the seizure was wrongful, and sue to get compensated. This could well be avoided by researching the area's customs process before attempting to import something, and the loss is going to be part of his cost of doing business (repeatedly) until he figures out whether it's worth it to keep trying to import something which could be gathered for cheap stateside.

Already addressed.

 

[amy31416]

Amy,

I already had obtained the appropriate “licenses/permission” to import this material. I had been importing it for years with no problem. “Inspections” were common, but this shipment was not seized for any such reason. It was not deemed to be any kind of threat to the environment.

Why do you characterize me as not being smart, and criticize me for opposing an unlawful seizure? I don’t understand.

I’m not clear on what you mean by paying storage fees and retrieving property. I “came from”, and reside in, this country (USA).

It’s good that you don’t think cops should seize anything they want. So why are you opposing me for opposing this unlawful seizure? I am really starting to think I made a mistake to come here.

If you had license/permission, then I'm on your side. Though I don't understand why you'd be going through customs on domestic flights.

 

[rolirn]

If you can't afford an attorney, and your personal efforts have not been effective, another possible avenue of recourse is to go to the press.

However, as others have pointed out, the material you are trying to import is somewhat controversial. I would therefore be sure to present documentation to the press that supports your view. For example, you might try to get permission to import from Customs, in writing, ideally on their letterhead (not necessarily in relation to your specific case).

Was the shipment insured? If so, your insurance company should be able to help.

Have you tried going up the management chain at Customs? If the low-level folks are stonewalling you, go to their management.

The only other idea I have for you is to try to enlist the help of the exporter. If they could provide documentation for other, successful exports to the US, that might help. They also might be able to lobby Customs on your behalf.

It’s not a matter of affording an attorney; the value of the commodity doesn’t warrant it (doesn’t make business sense). It would be like spending ten grand to sue the police for seizing 5 grand. It may pan out, esp is attorney fees would be included in the judgment, but the reward doesn’t justify the risk. And then there is the question whether the attorney would ACTAULLY be working for you (experience has taught me this is a very valid question).

Well in a sense I am “going to the press” right here. And it was only after much deliberation, considering the risk, since I am dealing with Homeland Security and all. And considering the majority opinion demonstrated in this particular viewing audience, even in such a forum as this, I am quickly learning that I don’t have a chance in hell.

And while I have not yet produced any of my filed protest documents here, it has been all about “permission to import from Customs”. If you are suggesting I try to sneak in a letter of pre-authorization from them without them seeing my name, and then use it against them in my ongoing case against me, there’s no chance of that happening.

BTW, insurance doesn’t cover Customs seizures.

Yes, I have tried going up the chain many times.

If by your last suggestion, you are talking about hiring a Customs broker, I always used one. They were of little help in this case.

 

[rolirn]

I have had my balls fondled by US customs, like 4 times, all stemming from the fact that I had tried to cross into the United States to work on a clients website, and was not aware that requires a work permit.

Well color me Mexican...

Anyway, have you seriously never heard of the war on drugs?

Do you have any idea how lucky you are that you did not get cavity-raped/confined for an extended period of time?

My personal opinion is that you are seriously wasting your time with this.

Petar,

Once again, these mushrooms are not prohibited as a drug of any kind.

Yes well it would seem that Customs operates even more outside any rule of law than other federal agencies; and judging by responses here, with complete support from the people.

So let me say this to each one of those PEOPLE who would ignore the late Martin Niemoeller: “may your next large mail order never arrive, and may your prepayment be lost forever without any prospect of compensation – and may you have absolutely no one to whom you can complaint about rule-of-law or individual rights, without them blaming YOU for the loss.”

 

[MelissaWV]

Okay... since you're also taking the day to reply to every single post (and bump your thread), many varieties of fungi have long-lived spores. Non-native species have a nasty habit of coming into the country and causing problems with the ecosystem. Even foreign versions of local plants are dangerous, if not more so since they can cross-breed and create hazardous new hybrids. Chytrid Fungus is a good example of a problem fungus, though not directly related to your ornamental mushrooms.

The particular species you are discussing is infamous for its resurrection, and is also considered toxic unless steps are taken to remedy that. Was your batch dried and "dead" to the point that it was harmless? Was it packed properly? Were they rendered non-toxic by some documented process?

Outdated, but relevant:

Q. I want to import mushrooms for consumption (eating). Do I need a permit?
A. No PPQ permit is required for mushrooms for consumption. The mushrooms must be free of soil, wood/wood chips, pests and diseases and will be inspected at the U.S. port of entry.

Q. Can my family bring me dried mushrooms from China or other countries when they come to the U.S. to visit?
A. Yes, dried mushroom are enterable to the U.S. They must be free of soil, insects, diseases and contamination from other plant material.

So you would not need a permit to import mushrooms for food consumption. Unfortunately, you have told us these are decorative/ornamental. You do not need a permit as of that publication to import dried mushrooms, so long as they are free of soil, insects, disease, and contamination. You said, however, you filled out the appropriate paperwork. This would seem to suggest that either you misspoke, or your mushrooms would not have fallen into this category, either.

In any event, you have not provided (and please don't at this point) the reasons given for confiscating the mushrooms. This is why Amy, myself, and a couple of others, would assume the most likely scenario, which is that your mushrooms were cross-contaminated in some way or were not sufficiently rendered inert by your packaging and shipping processes.

The suggestions to contact lawyers and insurance companies are sound. I am surprised you did not have a company insuring imports like this against damage, loss, theft, or contamination.

 

[rolirn]

I disagree. If people can't help him with his question, that is, how to recover the goods, they have nothing to contribute to the thread and are hijacking it. Saying how glad they are he lost his goods and that the government should've stolen them is really lame.

LPG,

Yes, my thread appears to have been generally hijacked. Thank-you for defending me and pointing that out. Seriously.

But even still, I guess the attempts at hijacking have accomplished a couple things: have indicated to me the great opposition I am facing, and have compelled me to describe my situation further. So I guess I won’t be flagging any of the PAST attempts.

 

[pcosmar]

Yes well it would seem that Customs operates even more outside any rule of law than other federal agencies; and judging by responses here, with complete support from the people.

I believe you are mistaking acceptance of reality, and common knowledge of restrictive and overbearing agencies as support for them.
Also some posted what should have been common sense, such as calling them first or researching BEFORE walking up to an intrusive inspection.
It would have saved you time and your property.

That said, I live a few miles from the border and have Canadian relatives. I do not even consider attempting to cross the border.

 

[rolirn]

This isn't an import/export forum... so I'm not sure what legal advice you thought you would get. That's why you're seeing a lot of about this.

Earlier you said you weren't familiar with lists of allowable and banned items. This implies a deep misunderstanding of the import/export process. Now you are saying you have knowledge of all the applicable guidelines, all the proper licenses, and the Government still trounced on you. That's a far cry from where you started.

Seriously, though; what is an ornamental mushroom?

Yes, I know this isn't an "import/export" forum, but no subforums are that specific. Go down the list of topics. Is this a forum for “getting out of jail”, for “lawsuits against police”, for “bank fraud”, for “SWAT team abuses”, for “black boxes in cars”? Of course not. But it IS a forum for “Individual Rights & Liberties”.

I believe you misunderstand. This is what I said earlier about “banned items”:
“While I don’t know if this material is under some internal/informal ‘ban list’ of US Customs for imports, it doesn’t fall under any legitimate/publicized restrictions that I can find (or that Customs has provided).”
That’s the long way of saying: “IT’S NOT ON ANY LEGITIMATE LIST.”

An “ornamental mushroom” is a dried mushroom used only for decoration. You can buy them in dried flower departments and hobby shops etc.

 

[MelissaWV]

I disagree. If people can't help him with his question, that is, how to recover the goods, they have nothing to contribute to the thread and are hijacking it. Saying how glad they are he lost his goods and that the government should've stolen them is really lame.

I don't see a "gladness" so much as pointing out why they might have been taken. Without information, one has to go with the likely conclusion.

"His question" was how to recover the goods? I reread the original post, but his questions seemed to be about how much information he should reveal. Even so, why would any of us know how to recover his goods? It was suggested he contact lawyers or the insurance company handling the imported property. Those seem like pretty sound suggestions to me.

 

[rolirn]

Okay... since you're also taking the day to reply to every single post (and bump your thread), many varieties of fungi have long-lived spores. Non-native species have a nasty habit of coming into the country and causing problems with the ecosystem. Even foreign versions of local plants are dangerous, if not more so since they can cross-breed and create hazardous new hybrids. Chytrid Fungus is a good example of a problem fungus, though not directly related to your ornamental mushrooms.

The particular species you are discussing is infamous for its resurrection, and is also considered toxic unless steps are taken to remedy that. Was your batch dried and "dead" to the point that it was harmless? Was it packed properly? Were they rendered non-toxic by some documented process?

Outdated, but relevant:




So you would not need a permit to import mushrooms for food consumption. Unfortunately, you have told us these are decorative/ornamental. You do not need a permit as of that publication to import dried mushrooms, so long as they are free of soil, insects, disease, and contamination. You said, however, you filled out the appropriate paperwork. This would seem to suggest that either you misspoke, or your mushrooms would not have fallen into this category, either.

In any event, you have not provided (and please don't at this point) the reasons given for confiscating the mushrooms. This is why Amy, myself, and a couple of others, would assume the most likely scenario, which is that your mushrooms were cross-contaminated in some way or were not sufficiently rendered inert by your packaging and shipping processes.

The suggestions to contact lawyers and insurance companies are sound. I am surprised you did not have a company insuring imports like this against damage, loss, theft, or contamination.

I’m not “bumping”, I’m only replying to comments to my thread.

Customs has never indicated that the seizure was related to any kind of environmental threat. I have not misspoke about being free of dirt, etc. There was/is no issue with contamination.

No the mushrooms were not rendered non-toxic, but that is not a requirement; even though Customs has tried to claim that as a basis for seizure. Yes, the mushrooms were dried and “dead”, but not harmless if consumed. But many imports are harmful if consumed.

Again, insurance doesn’t cover seizures. And lawyers…LOL.

 

[rolirn]

I believe you are mistaking acceptance of reality, and common knowledge of restrictive and overbearing agencies as support for them.
Also some posted what should have been common sense, such as calling them first or researching BEFORE walking up to an intrusive inspection.
It would have saved you time and your property.

That said, I live a few miles from the border and have Canadian relatives. I do not even consider attempting to cross the border.

Pcosmar,

As I have said, I already had “permission”. I had been importing these for years, often having them inspected and then released. No lack of common sense on my part.

 

[pcosmar]

Pcosmar,

As I have said, I already had “permission”. I had been importing these for years, often having them inspected and then released. No lack on common sense on my part.

Then i would suggest you contact Canadian Customs and your local legislators. (I assume Canada,,If not , then where ever you are)
As far as I have ever been able to determine there is neither logic nor consistency in any Law Enforcement on this side of the border.
Perhaps you would have better luck with your own lawmakers.
Perhaps even, they could apply pressure that none here can.

 

[rolirn]

Then i would suggest you contact Canadian Customs and your local legislators. (I assume Canada,,If not , then where ever you are)
As far as I have ever been able to determine there is neither logic nor consistency in any Law Enforcement on this side of the border.
Perhaps you would have better luck with your own lawmakers.
Perhaps even, they could apply pressure that none here can.

Mushrooms were imported from Europe. I am in US.