Murray Sabrin will support John McCain! [Admin: No root source for info]

[JS4Pat]

As for you naysayers out there who are afraid of anything that isn't "perfectly inline" with what you think is the way you do business...I

You need to realize that true %100 Libertarian Candidates who will only talk to other Libertarian Voters, cannot win simply because they do not have the voting base to push them over the top.

I don't expect perfection from Ron Paul Republican candidates - far from it.

And I want to talk to Republicans, Democrats, Third Party members and Independents - but I want them to be able to count on a consistent message and I want them to know that we do not "sell-out" our principles!

There is just NO justification for one of us saying that we will support John McCain if he is the Republican nominee! I mean why even continue the revolution...

 

[SabrinForSenate]

There is just NO justification for one of us saying that we will support John McCain if he is the Republican nominee! I mean why even continue the revolution...

So you would rather have Frank Lautenberg or Joe Pennacchio elected?

Listen, if you want to build a movement of strict Rothbardians, you will not be able to get elected. The nature of electoral politics is that it involves compromise. As far as compromises go, telling the GOP establishment what they want to hear, is not a bad one. We should judge Sabrin on his ACTIONS and BELIEFS.

I mean seriously...he wrote a piece that got put in the NY Times about how the Fed is a legal counterfeiter.

Have you ever listened to him speak?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRwJskZyqOc

 

[JS4Pat]

Have you ever listened to him speak?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRwJskZyqOc

He sounds excellent!

But I'm sorry I just can't support someone who pledges they will support a war mongering Neo-con Republican who blatantly violates the United States Constitution.

It's a deal breaker for me and I hope it's a deal breaker for a lot of others in this movement.

If we can't win without doing that, then the Sheep are not yet ready for us. Let's go back to building our movement and educating more people.

Let's do this the right way!

 

[SabrinForSenate]

He sounds excellent!

But I'm sorry I just can't support someone who pledges they will support a war mongering Neo-con Republican who blatantly violates the United States Constitution.

It's a deal breaker for me and I hope it's a deal breaker for a lot of others in this movement.

If we can't win without doing that, then the Sheep are not yet ready for us. Let's go back to building our movement and educating more people.

Let's do this the right way!

Then you do that...given an intellectual division of labor with any movement, it is necessary for people not to be discouraged from what they are best at. For many, this happens to be electoral politics. Not many of us are Rothbards who are capable of immense academic erudition, coupled with a natural sense of politics and the electoral process.

By all means, read Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, etc etc...check out the Mises Institute (whose president Lew Rockwell actually endorsed Sabrin) at: www.mises.org.

But trying to discourage this natural division of labor and specialization is silly and destructive to the movement. If Sabrin is better than the other candidates, there is nothing un-libertarian about supporting him.

 

[Flash]

This isn't even confirmed and people are argueing about it.

 

[stepupnj]

I DO find this quite disturbing. Ron has been asked many times if he would support one of the Republican nominees, and he said NO because none of them uphold Constitutional principles.

How could ANYONE in this movement support McCain under ANY circumstances?

And there is another disturbing thing about the quote:

"As a proud conservative Republican who has donated to, campaigned for, and supported such solid conservatives like Scott Garrett, Steve Lonegan, Jay Webber and Bret Schundler, I will support the Republican Presidential nominee if it is John McCain."

Scott Garrett???? This man is a George Bush rubber stamper who has voted for the war, the Patriot Act, the ban on gay marriage amendment, and against stem cell research. I find this revolting.

 

[JDouglasFisher]

I'm going to make this extremely and stupidly simple for the handful of silly trolls with no political experiance or savvy, who just don't grasp it...

The choices are:

A.) Accept the fact that Murray has to do what he needs to do to get the republican base energized in order to get elected.

or

B.) Lautenburg wins in November, the movement loses most of its momentum, and you guys can all cry here all day long about how screwed up the system is.

I can't make it any more simple.

Should be noted that its the same 4 people crying and complaining, yet the overwhelming majority of movement supporters actually "GET IT" and have voted "in confidence" by starting to fill up his war chest. $188,000.00 as I write this. Good way to start off the week. I know Murray will appreciate it, and Estabrook is going to keep a close eye on what Murray Does come the 29th.

Goal to beat is the 1.5 Million that Estabrook has invested of her own money into this campaign.

 

[Archie]

I dont quite get how so many people are "shocked" when they find out that Murray Sabrin and even Ron Paul ARE INFACT POLITICANS trying to use tools to help them stay in gov't that many might see as "waterdown" ,Its ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THAT. Its just Politics guys no matter how much you dont wanna admit it , Do I like it if Ron Paul Or Sabrin waterdown there rhetoric in order to gain trust from the GOP base? NO I HATE IT also but Again ITS POLITICS!!!!! Do people think this is the fuckin boy scouts club or something LOL!!!!! When I read that people are outraged about Sabrin supporting John McCain first thing I say to myself is Im Glad that they are mad ,but at the end of the day Politics is Politics guys its not just a black and white thing "Lib/Neo-con" were there is only poltical "political bullshit" in that black/white ideology, its also in everything The Libertarian Party/The Constitution Party and even in the so called "Paytriot" mov't There is even Lots and bags of "dirty politics" played out for advantage's .

The Only thing you can do is if you choose to vote in this Fucked up system of ideology's today you gotta pick the person who is the least like a modern "black/White "poltiican" that might be and is Ron Paul or this Sabrin guy thats the best choice ya got.

if ya dont like it ,then protest and dont vote as I and many have done before.. I find it so funny that when ever someone finds out that the person they thought was there "saviour" in politics and find out they "compromise/waterdown" there ideas and actions then they yell out "SCUMBAG" HAHAHHA yes That's What Politics is a SCUMSUCKING FEST and only the Biggest Scumbags make it to the top in this game most of the time...

 

[Luft97]

I won't support John McCain. period.
I don't care if they crown him god-emperor of mankind.
Scum is scum.

I wish I could vote for you Brent. I will vote for Ron thinking about you tho.

 

[stepupnj]

I'm going to make this extremely and stupidly simple for the handful of silly trolls with no political experiance or savvy, who just don't grasp it...

Wow I find that tone almost as repulsive as the idea of McCain being President (well OK not NEARLY that repulsive).

The idea of these forums is to give everyone a voice. To come down with a holier than thou attitude for people expressing their opinion is not what the Freedom movement is about.

I didn't say that I wouldn't support Sabrin..in fact I will. But it still remains that I find if disturbing that he would voice support for a candidate like McCain. Ron Has never stooped to that level. In fact, I heard Ron once say that the candidate closest to the his own principles is Barack Obama.

Ron is the most principled member of Congress. Principles count, and sticking to them counts even more.

 

[JS4Pat]

The choices are:

A.) Accept the fact that Murray has to do what he needs to do to get the republican base energized in order to get elected.

or

B.) Lautenburg wins in November, the movement loses most of its momentum, and you guys can all cry here all day long about how screwed up the system is.

I can't make it any more simple.

I did not join this revolution to go back to the old - "It's either "A" or "B" paradigm".

We are creating a "C" option. Build a movement of educated activists who STAND ON SOME BASIC PRINCIPLES.

We can play the game to a certain extent and we can "tone down the rhetorich" but if we go down the road you are suggesting - WE ARE DOOMED - We will soon become the very thing we despise.

As for holding up the fundraising numbers as evidence that people agree with you and not "the 4 of us on this thread" - well I seriously doubt that most of the donors are even aware of Sabrin's McCain endorsment.

BTW - Is it confirmed yet? I am assuming if it were not true - you would have made that known by now.

 

[TXcarlosTX]

politics is just a game....

WINNING IS THE KEY!!!


hes playing the game to get sheeple reps to vote for him. no biggy

 

[allyinoh]

I think everyone needs to calm down. This hasn't been confirmed and unless it comes from Sabrin himself I am going to call BS until then.

 

[JS4Pat]

I think everyone needs to calm down. This hasn't been confirmed and unless it comes from Sabrin himself I am going to call BS until then.

Good Lord - THis was reported on Thursday, February 21st!

With all the Sabrin supporters in this thread - can't someone get a confirmation on this?

Did Sabrin say that he would support John McCain if he is the GOP nominee for president? YES or NO

 

[priest_of_syrinx]

Whatever.... My parents, who both voted for Ron in the primaries, said that they might vote for McCain because he's the "lesser of two evils".

And look how we did in the primaries after Ron said (with much honorable principle) that he wouldn't support any of the other dumbasses on stage with him. I think we should just let this slide, Murry is a human, and humans can't always do what is right. Ron knows he will vote well, and that's why he endorsed him.

 

[JS4Pat]

And look how we did in the primaries after Ron said (with much honorable principle) that he wouldn't support any of the other dumbasses on stage with him. I think we should just let this slide, Murry is a human, and humans can't always do what is right. Ron knows he will vote well, and that's why he endorsed him.

I really can't believe what I am reading in this thread. If this is the prevailing wisdom within the Ron Paul movement, then my interest and activism may be coming to an end very soon.

I will not invest my vote, time and money into something like this.

 

[familydog]

The question is how we mix ideological purity, at the same time doing things in a pragmatic way. Every movement has this problem. Ultimately they go too much one way or the other and end up screwing it all up. I'm curious to see where this one will go.

 

[seeker1]

This is the prevailing attitude....

I really can't believe what I am reading in this thread. If this is the prevailing wisdom within the Ron Paul movement, then my interest and activism may be coming to an end very soon.

I will not invest my vote, time and money into something like this.

I wouldn't call it wisdom, by any stretch.

It is a drag to get to this point.

 

[Patriot123]

This isn't true. The article was taken down. Have a look.

 

[JS4Pat]

This isn't true. The article was taken down. Have a look.

Thank God - but it still gives me reason to pause because of the number of people who were willing to accept a McCain endorsement by a "Ron Paul Republican".

I really hope it is a small minority in this movement who believe such an action would be acceptable.