Mobilizing the Christians!

[cujothekitten]

It's nice to see the Christians mobilizing to get Ron Paul in office. One of my best friends is an evangelical Christian and she's been talking to a few people in her area. Many of churches members are incredibly pro-Bush and it's been frustrating for her being anti-war.

About a year ago she invited me to attend a special speaking engagement at her church. The speaker was General George Sada (he's the guy that said there were WMD in Iraq and has given 4 different stories about this...). Anyway he did his speech then we had a small dinner afterwards and the pastor invited me to that as well. During the dinner he was more frank in his discussions and talked about how the government needs to be in Iraq forever (yes, he actually said that) then he went on about how EVERY Iraqi citizen is a terrorist!

I promised my friend I wouldn't debate him and be respectful but at one point I had to get up and leave because I started crying. The members of the dinner party (about 20) were almost totally in agreement... even when Sada started to justify torturing people.

About 4 months ago I went back down to visit my friend. Every time I go visit her I also attend her church service. I'm an atheist but I find the people to usually be friendly, most don't know I'm an atheist. After the service the Pastor invited us to lunch with his family. While we were at lunch he apologized for bringing Sada into the church. He said he had been blinded and deceived and he was wrong to do that... he also apologized for making me upset.

I think the evangelical movement is starting to swing. They're starting to see the dangers of blindly following a president that says he's a Christian but doesn't act like one. It took 6 years but Christians are starting to wake up and that gives me some hope.

 

[qednick]

I'm not very religious at all but I don't try and force my beliefs on anyone else and appreciate when they do the same. I think that's what pulls this mosaic of different folks and beliefs towards Ron Paul.

 

[cujothekitten]

We certainly want a President who is able to govern according to the Constitution, no matter what his personal beliefs might be. But if you're hoping Ron Paul won't bring his Christianity into the office with him, you might end up disappointed.

I'm ok with a president that has faith, what I'm not ok with is when they start funding it. This is dangerous for both the religious and the non-religious. I don't care about the 10 commandments in a courthouse (though I prefer my tax money doesn't go to putting it there), I don't care about religious symbols on public property (as long as my tax money doesn’t' go to funding it), I'm even cool with the president praying in public (as long as I don't have to do it).

What I like about Ron Paul is that he respects my beliefs (or lack thereof) and won't try to push his faith on me.

 

[wwycher]

I think that we all understand the point is, that we don't want the government telling how to believe or teaching our kids what to believe. I will be gathering info on what the globalist want for us and our kids. Dr. Pauls message and us explaining what the other side wants to do to us, will sell anybody. I am Christian not a fascist. I was fooled and lied to. I am praying for GW's soul. I said it once, we need to admit we were fooled and humble ourselves and move on.

 

[wwycher]

To convince Christians we were fooled by GW we need to gather the evidence and also what he promised. The two are very different.

 

[Brandybuck]

I'm a Christian, but I don't much care what morals the President has.

I very much care. Here are a few of the morals I insist my candidate have:

Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not covet

There are three kinds of sin: sin of irrevence, sin of impurity and sin of violence. The first is between you and God. The second tends to be private between individuals, but can lead to scandal. Still, no great harm. But the third is crucial.

The President doesn't have to pray and attend church. He can even commit adultery if he keeps it discreet. But I demand that he not be a liar, warmonger or thief!

 

[brent022]

I just wanted to say I just checked out the http://christians4paul.wordpress.com/ and was going to use it in an email to several of my more religious friends but became concerned when checking out the links on the page and the Lew Rockwell one took me to a blog whose 1st article on the page is

The Unholy Desire of Christians To legitimize killing in war. Article by Laurence M. Vance.

At best this would concern any of the Christians that would click that link and at worst would make them feel the original site is a trick to get Christians behind Paul.

While the article may be explaining what just *some* Christians are doing the title itself is very inflammitory and I cant send people to the main site with the chance they may click the blog links and see that.

This is just my opinion on how 1st time Christian who dont know anything about Ron Paul or his views might view this.

 

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

I just wanted to say I just checked out the http://christians4paul.wordpress.com/ and was going to use it in an email to several of my more religious friends but became concerned when checking out the links on the page and the Lew Rockwell one took me to a blog whose 1st article on the page is The Unholy Desire of Christians To legitimize killing in war Article by Laurence M. Vance.

At best this would concern any of the Christians that would click that link and at worst would make them feel the original site is a trick to get Christians behind Paul.
While the article may be explaining what just *some* Christians are doing the title itself is very inflammitory and I cant send people to the main site with the chance they may click the blog links and see that.

This is just my opinion on how 1st time Christian who dont know anything about Ron Paul or his views might view this.

Those articles will be replaced with new ones tomorrow. Wait and send your email in the morning.

 

[DrStrabismus]

In terms of the Armageddon thing, I think a good logical point to make is: if it is inevitable that prophecies will come true, then isn't it our responsibility to try to make things as pleasant as possible along the way? Things will still work out according to scripture, but christians should try to alleviate as much suffering as possible, especially to Americans. It seems the argument for keeping Americans there is to bring stability to the region. If you take them out maybe it will help Armageddon along!

diclaimer: i'm an atheist, but i think the above idea make sense logically given certain premises.

 

[Mindbinder]

I dissagree with you there and I think I've missed your reason for stating it...

Religious beliefs these days are getting less and less intwined with the governing body - not because less believers are in office - but because the American public simply does not stand for it on a growing platform every day. There's simply too much diversity here and too much learning beyond biblical teachings. Now, also, Ron Paul seems like way too much of a stand-up guy to try to impose his belief structure on anyone, especially his own citizens. On top of that, Christianity is so varied in different views and versions and beliefs. How could any one form POSSIBLY make it into acting policy when the majority of believers can't straighten it out amongst themselves and squabble as a result?

Lets face it, G.W.Bush is tying his D*MNDEST to inject America with his personal views intertwined with hisbeliefs - and while it showed SOME progress in leading our country into it, it's not working out very well.

I may just be totally
but yeah.

"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion."

"The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state."

Both of these where said in an article written by Ron Paul. I don't think this means he looks to his religion when making policy decisions. However, it does imply that Dr.Paul is a little bit more comfortable mixing church and state then some of the atheists on this board would be.

 

[Anne]

Atheists for Ron Paul!

Agnostics for Ron Paul!

 

[Anne]

The first is between you and God.

Why do you assume we all believe in your fake God?

 

[Anne]

"This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state."

This is the one thing I don't agree with him on. He's completely wrong. People like me hate religion because it is irrational and silly. The Bible is a fiction and a bad one at that.

Many people don't put their faith in God OR the state. Why does it have to be one or the other?

 

[CurtisLow]

Agnostics for Ron Paul!

Roman Catholic for Ron Paul!

 

[Mindbinder]

This is the one thing I don't agree with him on. He's completely wrong. People like me hate religion because it is irrational and silly. The Bible is a fiction and a bad one at that.

Many people don't put their faith in God OR the state. Why does it have to be one or the other?

Ok, I'm an agnostic as well, however calling religious beliefs irrational and silly is a little bit of a stretch. You need to put yourself into others positions. Most don't read the bible as literal, they use there religion as a source of solace, guidance, and moral direction. Now we both know that we can have all of those without religion, it is just easier for most to have it all written down for them.

 

[Seadeus]

Some thoughts that may (or may not) help when talking with Christians:

Without Ron Paul, we will eventually (by 2012) have hate crimes that will evolve into restrictions limiting a Christians freedom to quote certain Bible verses. This is how it has happened in some European countries, and it is the natural evolution of such laws. Why Christians in America can't see the handwriting on the wall with "hate" crimes, I don't know. Must be clinging to a "it can't happen here" type of thinking.

Here are also some verses that would require freedom instead of big govt.

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Cr 2:5

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed [be] the man that trusteth in man, and maketh
flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jer 17:5

Isn't expecting government to solve your problems putting faith in men?

 

[AlexZello]

What do you think of Obadiah Shoher's views on the Middle East conflict?

What do you think of Obadiah Shoher's views on the Middle East conflict? One can argue, of course, that Shoher is ultra-right, but his followers are far from being a marginal group. Also, he rejects Jewish moralistic reasoning - that's alone is highly unusual for the Israeli right. And he is very influential here in Israel. So what do you think? uh, here's the site in question: Middle East conflict

 

[DeadtoSin]

This is the one thing I don't agree with him on. He's completely wrong. People like me hate religion because it is irrational and silly. The Bible is a fiction and a bad one at that.

Many people don't put their faith in God OR the state. Why does it have to be one or the other?

You know, the people like you are the ones that are driving people away from the Revolution. I don't bash you because you are an atheist. You need to get the chip off your shoulder and go live your life. You hate religion, thats your choice. Why should you constantly berate people (including me) for believing in something?

 

[Corydoras]

I thought this thread was about outreach to Christians?

 

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I'm atheist and I support Ron Paul.

But christians are already mobilized, no? That's why they're christians lol