MO - Women refused treatment at hospital, then arrested, then dies in jail.

[Son of Detroit]

What's with the sudden disdain for science and private property rights on RPF?

 

[dannno]

What's with the sudden disdain for science and private property rights on RPF?

People who are unarmed and whose legs don't work do not pose a danger to society and don't need to be in jail *unless they ask to go

 

[AME3]

She would likely have died anywhere she happened to land. Like it or not, DVT isn't the obvious diagnosis that people here want to pretend that it is.

Yes that is true...

 

[Son of Detroit]

People who are unarmed and whose legs don't work do not pose a danger to society and don't need to be in jail *unless they ask to go

Trespassing is trespassing. I don't care who it is or what condition they're in. If they refuse to leave the premises of private property when asked, then they should face the consequences.

 

[donnay]

I'm sure you are, dear.

You're still here? I answered your bonus question in post #67.

 

[dannno]

Trespassing is trespassing. I don't care who it is or what condition they're in. If they refuse to leave the premises of private property when asked, then they should face the consequences.

I agree, they should be removed from the premises.

Dangerous/violent people should go to jail.

 

[AME3]

How about fix the problem? In most cases, when someone has pain, there is an underlying health problem.

accupuncture and rhino horn woulda saved her...without a doubt! If only she and one of her kids had been in China...

 

[AME3]

How many homeless invalids have you taken in? If the answer is zero, you might want to back off on juging the limits of the charity of others.

touché

 

[nobody's_hero]

Hmm. Not sure about this one, AF.

You're getting a bit sloppy.

My take is that I can't really judge the hospital for this action. I'm just a student nurse, but healthcare providers see it a lot. People will travel to a half dozen facilities in search of narcotic pain medications. Those people DO need help, more help than being arrested and jailed (mostly they need psychiatric help and drug abuse counseling, and perhaps if the facility had psych services available and they had done that, they might have kept this person long enough to diagnose a DVT, and that they were wrong with their first impressions).

We sometimes forget that while our government is intended to operate on the presumption of innocence (which it hasn't done a good job of, lately), ordinary people are sometimes going to make assumptions of others before any facts come to light, however wrong they may turn out to be.

What follows, usually, if you determine that people should not be free to make erroneous assumptions, is that government steps in and tells hospitals that they must treat so-and-so patients regardless of the hospital's perception, which typically ends up in abuse at the cost of the hospital, and increased government control.

One similar example is that according to Georgia law, ERs*must* treat all women in labor and deliver the child. As noble-intended as that is, it has led to women having deliveries (which, are not really dire emergencies so much as they are things that you have at least 9 months to plan for, but I digress) without taking the necessary steps to ensure that they can first afford them. And a pregnancy is something you can actually see, unlike a blood clot. I mean, if they want to start forcing hospitals to run test after test to determine whether or not someone needs a real fixing, or just a 'quick fix', we're not going to have any hospitals left.

Doctors will often make a personal commitment to treat those in need, and we respect them for that, but we tend to forget that they also have the personal right to refuse treatment.

 

[fisharmor]

Here's a woman who lived in New Zealand. They have government care there. She complained of pain for six years before she died.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/6299683/Woman-dies-after-cancer-goes-untreated

See, everyone! It's ok that our socialist/fascist system of healthcare failed to diagnose a problem, because other socialist/fascist healthcare systems do, too!

 

[Anti Federalist]

Hmm. Not sure about this one, AF.

You're getting a bit sloppy.

Fair enough.

It is a gray area, no doubt, but I stand by my comments in post 34.

 

[Anti Federalist]

<snip>

The whole quote would be nice:

I'm just sure of one thing: I don't like the idea of people being thrown in prison for making a scene because they're dying and nobody seems able or willing to help.

If that makes me a communist or some such, well, so be it then.

 

[tttppp]

accupuncture and rhino horn woulda saved her...without a doubt! If only she and one of her kids had been in China...

Unfortunately its almost impossible to save someone who has no money. Acupuncture cost money. Along with the herbs. And almost no insurance covers acupuncture...no insurance covers herbs. There really needs to be a system in place where doctors/acupuncturist/herbologists are motivated to provide some level of pro bono work.

 

[donnay]

Unfortunately its almost impossible to save someone who has no money. Acupuncture cost money. Along with the herbs. And almost no insurance covers acupuncture...no insurance covers herbs. There really needs to be a system in place where doctors/acupuncturist/herbologists are motivated to provide some level of pro bono work.

Yes a truly free market. Getting government out of the arena would make a huge difference in the quality of life in general!

 

[specsaregood]

Oh, I agree. The US should definitely try to be more like china.

ROFL

The sad part being that we are at the point where one could take that side of the debate and hold their own. strong currency? strong manufacturing base? growing middleclass? increasing global power?

just saying...

 

[Anti Federalist]

The sad part being that we are at the point where one could take that side of the debate and hold their own. strong currency? strong manufacturing base? growing middleclass? increasing global power?

just saying...

"We will sell the capitalists the rope that they hang themselves with".

Goddamned commies.

 

[specsaregood]

"We will sell the capitalists the rope that they hang themselves with".
Goddamned commies.

hey, at least we still have the moral authority of pointing out all our constitutionally protected civil rights. oh wait! damn commies!

 

[Nirvikalpa]

Pulmonary embolism.

What the hell.

These are doctors?!

People will travel to a half dozen facilities in search of narcotic pain medications. Those people DO need help, more help than being arrested and jailed (mostly they need psychiatric help and drug abuse counseling, and perhaps if the facility had psych services available and they had done that, they might have kept this person long enough to diagnose a DVT, and that they were wrong with their first impressions)

Most med and nursing students understand the seriousness of leg pain, especially reoccurring.

And a pregnancy is something you can actually see, unlike a blood clot.

Not necessarily true, in 100% of cases.

But besides that, leg pain, again, especially reoccurring, should be treated as a woman rushed to the ER, deep lower abdominal pain, sexually active, 2 weeks late on period is: we treat as an ectopic pregnancy, all the time. We (EMT's) don't risk being wrong.

 

[James Madison]

What's with the sudden disdain for science and private property rights on RPF?

There's a small but vocal minority that despises any science published in the last 200 years. It's bad, I know.

 

[row row fight da powah]

One similar example is that according to Georgia law, ERs*must* treat all women in labor and deliver the child. As noble-intended as that is.

Is it really? Or is it that they just want to make sure that when that baby comes out, it is fully vaccinated and ready to be a future customer of big pharma? Laws don't create compassionate, loving beings; only help to prevent.