MO - Women refused treatment at hospital, then arrested, then dies in jail.

[PaulConventionWV]

That didn't kill her. They could have taken her back to the homeless shelter and she would be just as dead. Reading the woman's background, she has a history of psychological problems.

Who are you trying to incriminate? Jeez... The treatment is the problem. You're the one trying to tell me we are supposed to think less of her death because she had mental problems? I think in this case she obviously had valid concerns, and I don't see why you would even bring that up unless you were really desperate to turn her into a bad person in our eyes. Just what is the purpose of that? You and your idiot doctor would've been great together.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

You think they dont have to drag people into cells every single day?

No, they don't have to. Especially if they did nothing wrong.

And don't tell me you can't tell the difference between someone who doesn't want to go to jail and someone who literally can't use their legs...

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Yeah, thats it. Only 2 possible answers: she's faking or she's fine. couldn't be some other cause. I sure hope you aren't a doctor.

I was being sarcastic. The point is, they treated her as if those were the only two possible answers.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I've never pretended to be anything that I'm not - a pretentious, obnoxious know it all ill tempered overly blunt bitch. Sadly for you, that still doesn't make me wrong.

Well, you'll take solace in the fact that you are wrong. The wrongness just emanates from everything you say, but the worst part is that you then act like your "bluntness" is some kind of virtue. Everyone tries to justify being a terrible person if they just can't help it. Maybe you should get help from the medical community you so adore. But no, even I wouldn't encourage that because I realize if you actually did it you might end up dead or crazy. Nobody admires you for being a class A bitch, and it doesn't help validate anything you say. Even when presented with logical posts, you argue dogmatically and still have the gall to insult people and act like it's okay if you're being an asshole as long as you admit it. No wonder you're here. The real world won't treat you as well as we do, will they?

 

[tttppp]

Who are you trying to incriminate? Jeez... The treatment is the problem. You're the one trying to tell me we are supposed to think less of her death because she had mental problems? I think in this case she obviously had valid concerns, and I don't see why you would even bring that up unless you were really desperate to turn her into a bad person in our eyes. Just what is the purpose of that? You and your idiot doctor would've been great together.

Anytime a patient complains of problems that can't be seen on one of their bullshit tests, doctors claim you have mental problems. My guess is this woman had a history of PHYSICAL problems that were not detected by their machines, so doctors just claimed she was mental. This happens all the time.

Unless a patient is coming into the doctors office just to fuck with him, odds are if the patient is complaining of pain, he has a real physical problem that needs to be addressed. Another issue I have with doctors is that they feel pain is just pain and is not a real physical problem. This is not the case.

 

[Golding]

Anytime a patient complains of problems that can't be seen on one of their bullshit tests, doctors claim you have mental problems. My guess is this woman had a history of PHYSICAL problems that were not detected by their machines, so doctors just claimed she was mental. This happens all the time.

Unless a patient is coming into the doctors office just to fuck with him, odds are if the patient is complaining of pain, he has a real physical problem that needs to be addressed. Another issue I have with doctors is that they feel pain is just pain and is not a real physical problem. This is not the case.

People often act like the doctor is insinuating that it's "all in your head" when the tests are negative and admission criteria isn't met. There isn't a nice way to say it, maybe, but without support for a diagnosis that isn't clinical (clinical diagnoses including wound dehiscence, abscess, cellulitis, appendicitis, etc.), there's no medical basis for admission. Will things sometimes get missed as a result? Yes. But they'll get missed without the so-called "bullshit tests" too.

I'd be interested to see what labs and tests were obtained for the lady, to see how far a diagnosis of DVT was pursued.

 

[TheTexan]

I thought 16% of my paycheck was supposed to go to healthcare for these people... instead of helping them, they're killing them???!?!?!!

I want my 16% back, motherfuckers

 

[nobody's_hero]

Most med and nursing students understand the seriousness of leg pain, especially reoccurring.
.

It's not that simple (though it would be nice if it were). Hospitals usually know when a patient has been to several facilities. More often than not, that's a tell-tale sign that they're seeking pain medications. It doesn't always explain why they're seeking pain medications. This hospital made a wrong judgment on the motive. If we want to crucify doctors for occasionally being wrong, we're not going to have any doctors left. As many lawsuits as there are flying around, we've put doctors between a rock and a hard place. Do they spend most of their time doing things that are unnecessary for patients and eating the costs when nothing turns up, or do they risk getting sued when that one patient slips through the cracks every now and then? It's no wonder so many of them just throw in the towel early and play golf for the rest of their lives.

I was a firefighter before I was a student nurse. If I had a dollar for every time someone wanted to call an ambulance for a taxi ride, I'd have enough money to join those doctors in playing golf for the rest of their lives. People have learned that saying they have chest pain = getting pretty much whatever they want. —My point is: there really is no easy answer. I mean, what do you do? Sure, for us low guys on the totem pole, we just do our jobs. Give 'em a ride to the hospital and if it turns out that they were faking it, it's not our problem, we just go get ready for the next call, and we get our paycheck. But someone has to eat the cost of the abuse.

 

[donnay]

It's not that simple (though it would be nice if it were). Hospitals usually know when a patient has been to several facilities. More often than not, that's a tell-tale sign that they're seeking pain medications. It doesn't always explain why they're seeking pain medications. This hospital made a wrong judgment on the motive. If we want to crucify doctors for occasionally being wrong, we're not going to have any doctors left. As many lawsuits as there are flying around, we've put doctors between a rock and a hard place. Do they spend most of their time doing things that are unnecessary for patients and eating the costs when nothing turns up, or do they risk getting sued when that one patient slips through the cracks every now and then? It's no wonder so many of them just throw in the towel early and play golf for the rest of their lives.

I was a firefighter before I was a student nurse. If I had a dollar for every time someone wanted to call an ambulance for a taxi ride, I'd have enough money to join those doctors in playing golf for the rest of their lives. People have learned that saying they have chest pain = getting pretty much whatever they want. —My point is: there really is no easy answer. I mean, what do you do? Sure, for us low guys on the totem pole, we just do our jobs. Give 'em a ride to the hospital and if it turns out that they were faking it, it's not our problem, we just go get ready for the next call, and we get our paycheck. But someone has to eat the cost of the abuse.

I totally understand what you are sayings...lots of people play the system. I am pissed that government is even involved, to tell you the truth, because it is the people who have to pay dearly for their abuses!

Again their plan has certainly divided this country. The focal point should be humanity, and caring for a fellow human being. Sure mistakes are going to be made, after all we are human. But to turn their backs on a person who is screaming in pain that her legs were hurting, begging for someone to help her. Then to be arrested under the guise of trespassing, to later die in a jail cell, due to a pulmonary embolism, certain doesn't sound very humane. Most people would treat a dog better, seriously.

 

[moostraks]

...
Again their plan has certainly divided this country. The focal point should be humanity, and caring for a fellow human being. Sure mistakes are going to be made, after all we are human. But to turn their backs on a person who is screaming in pain that her legs were hurting, begging for someone to help her. Then to be arrested under the guise of trespassing, to later die in a jail cell, due to a pulmonary embolism, certain doesn't sound very humane. Most people would treat a dog better, seriously.

I doubt it. I think you might have too much faith in humanity. I used to do animal rescue work before I almost lost everything because of the neighbors. Same people would demand that someone do something for the animals but it sure wasn't going to be them doing it and where those someones who were angels for the animals lived better not be anywhere near their neighborhoods. People suck. One of the hardest commandments of the two we are told to follow as Christians is to love thy neighbor. I am trying to but boy is it hard most of the time!

 

[tod evans]

People suck. One of the hardest commandments of the two we are told to follow as Christians is to love thy neighbor.

It's much easier if your nearest neighbor is a couple of miles away!

I don't know how so many people can choose to live in cities......but they do.

 

[angelatc]

Well, you'll take solace in the fact that you are wrong. The wrongness just emanates from everything you say, but the worst part is that you then act like your "bluntness" is some kind of virtue. Everyone tries to justify being a terrible person if they just can't help it. Maybe you should get help from the medical community you so adore. But no, even I wouldn't encourage that because I realize if you actually did it you might end up dead or crazy. Nobody admires you for being a class A bitch, and it doesn't help validate anything you say. Even when presented with logical posts, you argue dogmatically and still have the gall to insult people and act like it's okay if you're being an asshole as long as you admit it. No wonder you're here. The real world won't treat you as well as we do, will they?

Knowing that part of the country you're from, I loved reading that while imagining the accent you'd be using if you spoke it aloud. Gotta love the Appalachians'.

Just curious - which of my doctors was the idiot? The one with a brilliant clinical mind or the one with the sparkling personality?

I think you and I define logic differently, because I don't think anything you've said has been logical. More like hysterical. You're resorting to attacking me instead of pointing out exactly what any of the three hospitals should have done differently.

But again - changing the subject won't change the fact that I'm still right. The facts are that even though she was treated properly, examined by three different medical teams at three different hospitals...even the federal review board also says she received the proper medical treatment. But you can't seem to grasp that the real world of diagnostics isn't as black and white as you desperately need it to be in. Again, sometimes sick people die.

But wait - perhaps the entire hospital should have devoted all their attentions to this one patient until they could determine exactly what was wrong with her, even if it did turn out to be psychosis. Maybe all those other ER patients could have and should have waited while all resources were devoted to a homeless woman with a history of mental problems.

(Note that I don't think they should have taken her to jail. But they could have taken her to the Paris Hilton, and she would still be dead.)

If you want to change the world, go to medical school and heal everybody. Until then, quit whining that the rest of the world doesn't perform to your standards.

 

[azxd]

How about people in wheelchairs don't need to go to jail for trying to 'trespass' at a hospital?

It would be a lot cheaper for the state if the cops just drove her home and let her find her own way back to the hospital.

Cheaper still if the edge of town was closer

 

[azxd]

C'mon, she was not arrested out of any altruistic motives.

She was arrested because she caused a scene.

She was making a scene because her legs stopped working and she was dying.

And now she's dead ... YES this truly is another cause for national concern.

Can I get a tweet of the officers address, and perhaps a NBP bounty ... Some people need to get a grip on reality.

 

[azxd]

Sounds to me like some of you are afraid to state your true position, which is that everybody should get unlimited free healthcare. don't be afraid, come out and say it.

It's hard to support Obamacare on a RP forum

 

[angelatc]

Anytime a patient complains of problems that can't be seen on one of their bullshit tests, doctors claim you have mental problems.

Unfortunately for you, I am living proof that your statement is false.

 

[azxd]

You have missed the mark by yards. You being a complete imbecile, and your sheer lack for humanity is quite telling.

Oh this thread is gonna be good ... Insults begin on page 1 ... I can hardly wait to see what this devolves into.

 

[nobody's_hero]

I totally understand what you are sayings...lots of people play the system. I am pissed that government is even involved, to tell you the truth, because it is the people who have to pay dearly for their abuses!

Again their plan has certainly divided this country. The focal point should be humanity, and caring for a fellow human being. Sure mistakes are going to be made, after all we are human. But to turn their backs on a person who is screaming in pain that her legs were hurting, begging for someone to help her. Then to be arrested under the guise of trespassing, to later die in a jail cell, due to a pulmonary embolism, certain doesn't sound very humane. Most people would treat a dog better, seriously.

And, I understand the sentiment.But,

This is going to sound harsh, but from a legal "CYA (cover your ass)" standpoint, turning this woman away was the best thing the hospital could do do to protect itself.

If a healthcare provider had accepted and initiated treatment for this woman, and then made a mistake, they could be sued for malpractice.

But to simply not accept her under their care, means that they never assumed responsibility for her life, and therefore can't be held liable. The doctors didn't cause her blood clot.

It sucks. There's no other way to describe it, but it's how things work now-a-days (if you must blame someone, blame the lawyers). I don't think an arrest was necessary, but at some point you have to draw a line between a patient's rights and a doctor's rights.

If you want to change the world, go to medical school and heal everybody. Until then, quit whining that the rest of the world doesn't perform to your standards.

This. As much as it stings, this. ^^^

Really we do need more doctors.

 

[angelatc]

I The focal point should be humanity, and caring for a fellow human being.

Oh, she died because the world is a cold, heartless machine. Got it.

I am just amazed that so many of you here are taking the liberal route with these pathetic appeals to emotion. (She was a Mom! She was homeless! She was poor!) I'm two steps away from being a hermit, and when I venture out into the world I am always amazed at how warm and caring 95% of the people out there actually are. You'll never get me to buy into the fact that people don't care deeply about each other.

I've said it twice before - she got a routine standard of medical care. She died. Sometimes that happens to sick people.

 

[azxd]

All I'm judging is the continual increase in the propensity of cops to throw people in jail for the slightest thing.

The women was dying, she knew something was wrong, and they arrested her, threw her in the clink, where she, surprise, died.

I don't have all the answers, never claimed to have all the answers and never claimed sainthood either.

I'm just sure of one thing: I don't like the idea of people being thrown in prison for making a scene because they're dying and nobody seems able or willing to help.

If that makes me a communist or some such, well, so be it then.

Not to mention, my family just came through an ugly, close encounter with the hospital/medical/police complex and it's left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I knew there was method to your madness

They're all in cahoots and working against you LOL