Mitt Romney: Take Down the Confederate Flag Immediately

[Aratus]

i'm a Baystater. i can indeed remember when he was our governor and took the responsibilities of his high office seriously.
we've had over 300 years worth of governors and Mitt was easily better than average let alone better than most. I regard
the shooting as a major tragedy, I know why he is upset, but even so, i find myself thinking over the many times he took
several contradictory stances on an issue of the day. refreshingly, he is at least speaking his mind without being terribly
confusing, and even if the debate over all Confederate flags shall continue on well after the events of the past week or so,
at least we know where he stands on the issue. Both sides in this debate have their merit, there were Copperheads aplenty
in the North in the early 1860s and Scalawags aplenty all over Jefferson Davis's Confederacy. Our own Civil War had several
causes, and we as a nation are still healing its wounds in more ways than one! At least Mitt is being quite honest with us all...

 

[Carlybee]

They seemed to at least be arguing that the Confederacy was on the right side of the Civil War, and I just don't agree. I do agree that the north and Abraham Lincoln weren't the heroic anti slavery crusaders that history books make them out to be, but that doesn't mean that the Confederacy was any better or any more pro liberty than the north.

The Confederate war was mainly poor men fighting for rich mens property. The slave owners were the minority in numbers but the federal governments actions threatened everyone in the south's livelihoods and abilities to feed their families. Slavery issues aside, it was also about states rights. I don't think very many people think the Confederacy was on the right side of the slavery issue. I'm still not sure how anyone back then could think it was okay to own humans. Many of the founders did as well and it was a practice that came directly over from Europe. Even some Indian tribes kept slaves. It's definitely a complex issue, but I can understand wanting to remember the 500,000 dead and wounded as being of historical significance in the south. Ultimately though this flag issue is going to end up a federal referendum on being PC, just like forcing football teams to change their mascot names. That's where the liberty issue comes in.

 

[PierzStyx]

I don't see any reason not to take it down. There are too many libertarians that I've run into that still defend the Confederacy. In reality slavery is the antithesis to libertarianism, and there should be nothing but disgust and contempt for the Confederacy. I know that the North had their problems as well, but I see no reason to defend the Confederacy.

Right up there with libertarians who defend Andrew Jackson. I don't care if Jackson was busting central banks because he was also using the military to attack and remove people from the lands they legally own and were legally protected on to exile them outside the country so he and his rich buddies could win re-election. I am, of course, talking about the Indian Removal. Likewise, I don;t care how much I support individual secession, the Confederacy was still a slaveocracy and its government defended the idea that it was moral to own another human being. Both sides did actually. There were no countries in the Civil War that weren't slaveocracies.

 

[PierzStyx]

Slavery issues aside, it was also about states rights..

You CAN'T just set the enslavement of millions of people aside. Slavery is monstrous and monstrous nations support it. Also, the rights the states were worried about was if the Fedgov could tell them to end slavery or not.

 

[PierzStyx]

HOnestly, if you're going to fly a Confederate flag, fly the CSA national flag, which most people will probably confuse for a Revolutionary era flag, or the Bonnie Blue, which looks nicer.

 

[Vanguard101]

Surprised there isn't more outrage by the neo-confederates on this page

 

[Carlybee]

You CAN'T just set the enslavement of millions of people aside. Slavery is monstrous and monstrous nations support it. Also, the rights the states were worried about was if the Fedgov could tell them to end slavery or not.

Yes it was monstrous, however to many who didn't own slaves, they were still concerned about the federal government confiscating their savings and property so for them it wasn't necessarily about slavery even though slavery was the catalyst.

THIS issue with the flag is about states rights and the people of SC are the ones who should be allowed to choose what flags fly over their Capitol...not the federal government, not Mitt Romney, and not the media.

 

[Southron]

Add Jeb Bush to the list as well.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article25106668.html

 

[ChiefJustice]

The truth of the matter is that YES it should be removed. It represents a failed rebellion based largely upon the preservation of the institution of slavery. Thats simply a fact. Gotta love when the apologists try to parade the whole "states rights" excuse. They cared about states rights because they were afraid they would be told to free the slaves like most all world powers had already done by that point. South Carolina is part of the United States of America. That and the state flag (though some of these states have Confederate references on their flags) should be the only things flying above the state house. Southern heritage my ass.

The Confederacy was a disgraceful entity that had a dark purpose behind it. I don't weep at the thought of a thousand Confederate flags being put to the flame.

 

[cindy25]

you can't force it, that would only cause more resentment, more racial divisions. Germany dropped the Nazi flag by choice, but Japan still has the rising sun, which is hated in China and Korea.

if taken down on public buildings you will see it fly on more private businesses and homes than now. it should be allowed to die a natural death.

 

[cindy25]

Yes it was monstrous, however to many who didn't own slaves, they were still concerned about the federal government confiscating their savings and property so for them it wasn't necessarily about slavery even though slavery was the catalyst.

THIS issue with the flag is about states rights and the people of SC are the ones who should be allowed to choose what flags fly over their Capitol...not the federal government, not Mitt Romney, and not the media.

its not their capital, that came down in 2000. its over a war memorial-which was a compromise agreed by both sides.

 

[AuH20]

That wasn't very smart either IMO. That's why we can't expand the base of the liberty movement beyond white men.

That problem goes FAR BEYOND a flag.

 

[Carlybee]

The truth of the matter is that YES it should be removed. It represents a failed rebellion based largely upon the preservation of the institution of slavery. Thats simply a fact. Gotta love when the apologists try to parade the whole "states rights" excuse. They cared about states rights because they were afraid they would be told to free the slaves like most all world powers had already done by that point. South Carolina is part of the United States of America. That and the state flag (though some of these states have Confederate references on their flags) should be the only things flying above the state house. Southern heritage my ass.

The Confederacy was a disgraceful entity that had a dark purpose behind it. I don't weep at the thought of a thousand Confederate flags being put to the flame.

Do you live in SC?

 

[Carlybee]

you can't force it, that would only cause more resentment, more racial divisions. Germany dropped the Nazi flag by choice, but Japan still has the rising sun, which is hated in China and Korea.

if taken down on public buildings you will see it fly on more private businesses and homes than now. it should be allowed to die a natural death.

Yep

 

[AuH20]

A little known fact about the EVIL Confederacy..........

http://www.libertyclassroom.com/slavery-and-the-civil-war-revisited/

In 1864, Duncan F. Kenner, perhaps the largest slave holder in the South at the time and representative from Louisiana, approached Davis with a unique proposal. In order to gain the recognition of the British and French governments, something that had eluded the Confederacy since the beginning of the War, Kenner suggested that Davis tell both governments that the Confederacy would abolish slavery. No timeframe was discussed, and Kenner originally floated the idea of presenting the plan to the Confederate Congress. Davis asked Kenner not to do so and rejected the idea outright, thinking that the situation was not yet desperate enough to warrant such a move, but in late 1864 he sent for Kenner and told him to put the plan in motion. Kenner was given credentials and set out on a secret mission to Europe in January 1865. He arrived just weeks before Robert E. Lee surrendered at Appomattox Courthouse and met with the two Confederate commissioners, James M. Mason (grandson of George Mason) and John Slidell, in Paris. Slidell at first refused to support the plan, but Kenner told him that such refusal would result in his immediate suspension.

 

[ChiefJustice]

Do you live in SC?

Nope I'm from New England. While I'm sure there are Carolinians who aren't racist and support the Confederate flag being flown, that doesn't change the history behind it and why it is wrong to fly the flag.

It represents an entity that fought a rebellion to preserve slavery. All the stuff about states rights, the tariffs, nullification it all goes back to the root of the motivation...slavery.

And while there were many poor Southerners fighting under the Confederacy that doesn't make it justifiable to be proud of it. Many of the non-slave owners fully supported the institution of slavery that they were ultimately fighting for.

Be proud to be a Southerner...but don't be proud of the Confederacy which sought to protect the biggest black mark on the history of our country. Flying the Confederate flag symbolizes the protection of slavery.

I've seen multiple people flying Confederate flags up in places like New Hampshire, even Maine. Guess what? Those who I've actually talked to are prejudiced toward minorities and made comments indicative of that. Like it or not it's also come to be a representation of racism.

 

[Christian Liberty]

I don't see any reason not to take it down. There are too many libertarians that I've run into that still defend the Confederacy. In reality slavery is the antithesis to libertarianism, and there should be nothing but disgust and contempt for the Confederacy. I know that the North had their problems as well, but I see no reason to defend the Confederacy.

Can I hate both sides?

 

[AuH20]

Nope I'm from New England. While I'm sure there are Carolinians who aren't racist and support the Confederate flag being flown, that doesn't change the history behind it and why it is wrong to fly the flag.

It represents an entity that fought a rebellion to preserve slavery. All the stuff about states rights, the tariffs, nullification it all goes back to the root of the motivation...slavery.

And while there were many poor Southerners fighting under the Confederacy that doesn't make it justifiable to be proud of it. Many of the non-slave owners fully supported the institution of slavery that they were ultimately fighting for.

Be proud to be a Southerner...but don't be proud of the Confederacy which sought to protect the biggest black mark on the history of our country. Flying the Confederate flag symbolizes the protection of slavery.

I've seen multiple people flying Confederate flags up in places like New Hampshire, even Maine. Guess what? Those who I've actually talked to are prejudiced toward minorities and made comments indicative of that. Like it or not it's also come to be a representation of racism.

Do you think that Lincoln would have rolled back the controversial Morrill Tariff and called back the troops if the South simply gave up slavery? The answer is a resounding no.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Who cares? It's a flag. Anyway, the South wasn't fighting for slavery, that's an extremely childish and undeveloped point of view.

 

[Carlybee]

Nope I'm from New England. While I'm sure there are Carolinians who aren't racist and support the Confederate flag being flown, that doesn't change the history behind it and why it is wrong to fly the flag.

It represents an entity that fought a rebellion to preserve slavery. All the stuff about states rights, the tariffs, nullification it all goes back to the root of the motivation...slavery.

And while there were many poor Southerners fighting under the Confederacy that doesn't make it justifiable to be proud of it. Many of the non-slave owners fully supported the institution of slavery that they were ultimately fighting for.

Be proud to be a Southerner...but don't be proud of the Confederacy which sought to protect the biggest black mark on the history of our country. Flying the Confederate flag symbolizes the protection of slavery.

I've seen multiple people flying Confederate flags up in places like New Hampshire, even Maine. Guess what? Those who I've actually talked to are prejudiced toward minorities and made comments indicative of that. Like it or not it's also come to be a representation of racism.

So? I'm not the thought police. Apparently you are. If the voters who live there want it down, they'll take it down....unless of course you prefer to give the federal government the power to ban symbols and monitor thought.