Mitch McConnell hires Jesse Benton to run his 2014 re-election bid

[Sola_Fide]

He also came out in favor of intervening militarily in Syria. I think he was getting paid in some way for some of his blog posts. He's supposedly all about the Kentucky grassroots. I don't think Kentucky grassroots cared all that much about overthrowing Assad.

Yes. Let's also not forget the smears he was peddling against Thomas too. He knew he wasn't registering in the polls, he did it just to spite Thomas.

 

[cajuncocoa]

To elaborate on this point of view, sometimes failing to do what is expected creates a teachable moment.

But I'm speaking in general terms in terms of Ron's consistency. I don't need to make this him v Rand. Ron is Ron.

Well said. I owe you a rep.

 

[trey4sports]

WHAT THE FUCK JESSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[parocks]

Speak for yourself. Anyone who dislikes Ron Paul for any reason doesn't need to be making assumptions in the Ron Paul forum. There's a Rand sandpit you can go play in.

No, I'm saying that other people don't like Ron Paul because sometimes he refuses to endorse Republican nominees, and that rubs some Republicans the wrong way. I'm not saying that's me.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

No, that's just what I put in my signature. It was an option. You probably didn't see me pushing that.

I did. I plus-repped you multiple times and pushed it along with you multiple times, as I recall. It was a good idea. It kind of went along with the GOTV-on-campus idea in my mind (have the concert the night before, or the day of, the caucus and get contact info, and then go around knocking on dorm rooms rounding people up). Anyway, no one did it. And that's too bad.

But the colleges idea that I talked about had more to do with actually having bodies on college campuses on election day, getting random people out to the polls.

Right.

I was in Maine. Maine was a clean sweep 21/21. So, I'm sure that the results could have been any better at all. 22/21. Not possible. So, clean sweep in my state.

The straw poll could have been won. That would have been a lot better. That would have been a huge deal. All the delegates in Nevada were won, too. But the straw poll was lost. These straw polls matter. The media reports them. We all knew this from the very beginning. That's why right at the start, even though we all knew that Ron Paul would probably end up getting most of the delegates from Iowa, we knew Iowa was a great defeat. The media creates the lemmings' reality. So in a very real sense, Ron Paul did not "win"-win either Maine or Nevada, even though he got 100% of the available delegates in both cases.

Even that 100% is only in a sense -- you are subtracting the 3 committee stooges. Ron Paul could have got the 3 committee stooges to support him too. That's theoretically possible -- after all, Romney did it. Instead, Romney got them to support him. So actually, Maine got 21 out of 24.

But helmuth - yes, things would've been better if people just did what I told them to do.

That's always the case! But to actually make things happen, one must just get up and make things happen. We all know that. So I wish and you wish, but in the end that's all just wishing and wishing ain't doing.

My state was the only perfect state though - all the delegates.

Perfect except for 3. And except for you lost the straw poll. Which was the main thing that counted. And your state was not the only one. Nevada gave RP all but 3. So did Oklahoma, actually, but they were cheated. Of course, Maine was cheated, too. So if you want to count Maine as a victory, you should count all the other states where we would have won except for cheating.

 

[sailingaway]

I did. I plus-repped you multiple times and pushed it along with you multiple times, as I recall. It was a good idea. It kind of went along with the GOTV-on-campus idea in my mind (have the concert the night before, or the day of, the caucus and get contact info, and then go around knocking on dorm rooms rounding people up). Anyway, no one did it. And that's too bad.



Right.

The straw poll could have been won. That would have been a lot better. That would have been a huge deal. All the delegates in Nevada were won, too. But the straw poll was lost. These straw polls matter. The media reports them. We all knew this from the very beginning. That's why right at the start, even though we all knew that Ron Paul would probably end up getting most of the delegates from Iowa, we knew Iowa was a great defeat. The media creates the lemmings' reality. So in a very real sense, Ron Paul did not "win"-win either Maine or Nevada, even though he got 100% of the available delegates in both cases.

Even that 100% is only in a sense -- you are subtracting the 3 committee stooges. Ron Paul could have got the 3 committee stooges to support him too. That's theoretically possible -- after all, Romney did it. Instead, Romney got them to support him. So actually, Maine got 21 out of 24.

That's always the case! But to actually make things happen, one must just get up and make things happen. We all know that. So I wish and you wish, but in the end that's all just wishing and wishing ain't doing.
Except for 3. And except for you lost the straw poll. Which was the main thing that counted.

You trust that vote count? The one where the 'little slips of paper where the votes were written were all thrown away'?

The count CHARLIE WEBSTER organized?

I never pegged you for being such a trusting soul.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Do you really want to start this fight again?

Why do you consider it a "fight" for me to highlight how you are applying a different measure to Rand, than you are to Ron? As long as you keep employing it as a way to throw Rand under the bus, I will keep reminding you.

McConnell was a target of grass roots and this impacts that. Do you disagree it has impact?

We have a million targets, Sailing. That doesn't change the fact that Ron also endorsed sitting Republicans and told us he had to.

I think you are doing your best to blow this whole thing way out of proportion. That's what I think and I wonder why.

 

[sailingaway]

You mean my showing you how you apply a different measure to Rand, than Ron? That one?

No, I know you like that side of it. The side you don't like is when I counter with facts underlining my belief that they are not the same actions at all, in response to your allegation. That is the part you don't like. You want me to just stop after you throw stuff at Ron, apparently.

--
edit in response to your edit, I wasn't throwing Rand under the bus. Go back and reread my statement.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Hopefully a lot of people are eating crow tonight.


Dear Rand, Having Benton as ANY part of your campaign in 2016 will eliminate the slight possibility that I still would vote for you.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

You trust that vote count? The one where the 'little slips of paper where the votes were written were all thrown away'?

The count CHARLIE WEBSTER organized?

I never pegged you for being such a trusting soul.

No, no, probably not.

For that matter, Lew Rockwell appears to have some sort of inside information that Ron actually won the Ames Iowa Straw Poll, too.

But if we're taking into account vote fraud, then we really don't know which states did better than others and where we won and where we lost, because the whole thing was full of fraud from beginning to end. Always is. Maybe we really won in any number of states. We'll never know.

Anyway, I respect parock's pride in his state. But there are other states that did just as well also. Or perhaps you could say even better, since I didn't exactly see 21 votes for Ron Paul from Maine down on the Tampa floor, but I did see the majority of Nevada vote for him. But anyway, it doesn't matter. We all did great, they cheated us all -- no shock there! -- and now we move on and keep having fun fighting for liberty!

 

[BamaFanNKy]

??

I know he ran against Thomas, but honestly, if Thomas hadn't run, I'd have wanted us behind Marcus.

So, you would back a KNOWN Murderer? Marcus Carey Murdered a woman in a drunk driving accident and served no time.

 

[Carlybee]

No, I'm saying that other people don't like Ron Paul because sometimes he refuses to endorse Republican nominees, and that rubs some Republicans the wrong way. I'm not saying that's me.

Oh okay sorry. Misread that. As to the not endorsing Republican nominees...of course they get mad if he doesn't play the game...which is one of the reasons he is who he is and one of the main reasons he has support from those of us who want to end that status quo.

 

[sailingaway]

So, you would back a KNOWN Murderer? Marcus Carey Murdered a woman in a drunk driving accident and served no time.

Wow. That must have been some campaign.

I'm kind of assuming if he did no time, it wasn't considered murder. Not knowing more, I can't respond.

 

[parocks]

parocks, in my estimation: it is a lot earlier than you think. Most people are not libertarians. They are thus not going to support the implementation of libertarianism. Because that's just not what they support.

You can drive yourself crazy trying to twist yourself in knots, invent brilliant sneaky strategies, fool people into electing libertarians, etc., but I do not think that is a lasting long-term strategy for success. The numbers just aren't there. It wouldn't make any sense for Ron Paul to get elected -- nor for Rand -- because most people just don't support what they support.

Most people aren't like us. We are a small minority. We aren't going to get success wearing ourselves out seeking political success from a populace which does not share our political views.

We succeed through self-improvement and education. Especially self-improvement. We have to be patient. Crazed impatience will drive you crazy, and eventually drive you to try things like lying and compromising your principles, and then of course you still won't succeed and so you'll go even crazier. I've seen it happen to people in the liberty movement.

Anyway, I personally wish that someone had done your free concerts and college-kids-GOTV idea. I think it was a great idea.

Did you read the Tom Woods "memories" piece?

There's been a Liberty Wing of the Republican Party since Robert Taft. What Ron Paul says isn't all that different from what Taft / Goldwater / Reagan said. Or what the Tea Party says they want. It's not a particularly new battle.

Those ideas - concerts / GOTV - require money.

One of the problems I had with superbrochures was that most of that money went to the USPS. Hundreds of thousands of dollars was spent, in total, by individuals, buying specific precincts, mailing these things to the targeted audience. What I thought should happen at the time was people on the ground would agree to deliver the superbrochure, door to door, and keeping that money, and using that money for projects like college/shows/GOTV.

My "free show" idea was really a time kill, a keep busy for meetup groups or any type of local organization. That idea was from last summer, when meetup groups or other local organizations didn't really have much to do except hold signs at an inappropriately early time. They could book a couple bands, pay them $100 a piece, decent local bands or decent touring bands, drawing a bit of people. and have people sign up, get some more names more organization, no big deal, not really difficult, and not really something that required any real expert skill to get done. And there might've been shows of that scale somewhere that I didn't know about. These wouldn't be the kind of thing that would be publicized here or anywhere outside a local area. This theme could work for almost anything. The problem with Ron Paul supporters, though, is they seem to be hard wired into certain ways of thinking about bands. 1) Free is best. 2) Songs about Ron Paul are best 3) Songs about Liberty are best. 4) The bands don't have to be good. 5) The bands don't have to be popular. And since my theory involved good, normal popular bands and not marginal bands singing Liberty songs for free, it didn't jump out at anybody as being a particularly good idea. Bands are seen as background music or as entertainment for Ron Paul supporters, but not a method to get normal people who like normal bands to start to like Ron Paul. Bands are for the converted, and not to convert. And the typical Ron Paul supporter does not see things the same way as I do at all in any case. Key point about "free show" is that it really was a meetup/local group building idea, for early, not really a GOTV thing.

The other GOTV/college/bands thing was different. That was something that should be organized and focused on, and could cost a decent amount of money. The core of that idea was getting people to the polls, and it included things like concerts at the polling place on election day on campuses. And something like that would include a conscious effort to try to get a great turnout, great results, in certain precincts, at certain caucuses. Big State Colleges. People in dorms. People in dorms telling people that a concert is taking place at the polling place right now. The point there wasn't to build meetup groups, keep meetup groups busy, it was to get votes. That would've been something that the official campaign could've put money into and set a reasonable target for votes, and tried to get those votes. Bands weren't the core to that idea, free beer at the bar next door to the polling place could've done the same thing. I was unable to find any evidence anywhere that we were able to reall kick ass at any college campus. We know that there are dorms with hundreds of people, or even thousands, and with money applied to those points, votes should've been generated. And it never happened.

I spent more time here talking about the college GOTV project, because I thought that it could really mean votes. The "free show" thing was really just about building meetups, and the merit and value of that is a little bit more amorphous, intangible, not directly related to getting votes.

 

[LibertyEagle]

No, I know you like that side of it. The side you don't like is when I counter with facts underlining my belief that they are not the same actions at all, in response to your allegation. That is the part you don't like.

I know you think you do, but you fail.

You want me to just stop after you throw stuff at Ron, apparently.

Back up there, missy. Don't you dare accuse me of dissing Ron Paul. I have supported that man for over 20 years.

What I see is you continuing to throw stuff at Rand.

So, what now, Sailing? You've done your best to help stir everyone up. What's the plan?

 

[parocks]

Oh okay sorry. Misread that. As to the not endorsing Republican nominees...of course they get mad if he doesn't play the game...which is one of the reasons he is who he is and one of the main reasons he has support from those of us who want to end that status quo.

Right. He always votes right. We like that. Others don't.

 

[ninepointfive]

So, you would back a KNOWN Murderer? Marcus Carey Murdered a woman in a drunk driving accident and served no time.

Not to stray off topic here - you are referring to manslaughter not murder.

 

[sailingaway]

I know you think you do, but you fail.


Back up there, missy. Don't you dare accuse me of dissing Ron Paul. I have supported that man for over 20 years.

What I see is you continuing to throw stuff at Rand.

Go back and read what I said. I don't even think I mentioned him in that particular exchange.

Whereas in fact you DID say Ron did that, and mention him.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Wow. That must have been some campaign.

I'm kind of assuming if he did no time, it wasn't considered murder. Not knowing more, I can't respond.

No he was a rich brat who went to law school after it. Now he advocates locking up people through the drug war. SCUMBAG he is.

 

[low preference guy]

Back up there, missy.

lol. didn't your mom teach you good manners?