Militia = Legal & Prudent, Why Hide?

[cheapseats]

The more coordinated the resistance the more effective it is

Definitionally, in point of fact.

Coordinate: bring the different elements of (a complex activity or organization) into a relationship that will ensure efficiency or harmony.

First and foremost is MINDSET...

Firearms are very effective though even as individual self defense but when a number of individual coordinate their firepower, it is a serious force to be reckoned with.

Being new to the heretofore unthinkable notion of Arming Myself, it is likely that I have a take on Guns that better reflects the Population At Large than Gun People or Political People or Victims or Bad Guys.

There is NO QUESTION that I am personally vulnerable as I NEVER expected to be and that NO ONE has got my back. There is NO QUESTION that some of those positioned or uniformed to help me are among those most to be feared.

I sense that addressing Americans' cognitive dissonance on firearms is Step One to galvanizing broad public interest in the ability to defend one's own person, family and property during the pandemonium that inevitably follows disasters both inflicted and BEFALLEN.

Bear in mind that natural disasters are ALSO attended by theft and violence. Two weeks ago, I spoke with a woman whose teenage niece wouldn't go with the family on the exit from New Orleans, stubbornly went with her boyfriend to the SuperDome. Group of guys beat the shit out of her boyfriend and gang raped her for days. She's Looney Tunes now, can't be left alone for a minute.

If ANTI-TERRORIST agents show up for safe water landings of planes that encounter flocks of birds, and United States Marines are deployed to help with holiday traffic, it's pretty obvious that Authorities are expecting capital T-Trouble. Katrina alone makes it obvious that there aren't enough Emergency staff and supplies to go around. My Terminator Governor has had to borrow other States' resources to combat our fires - seems that an integral portion of our people and equipment is in Iraq.

What if the next Big terrorist attack is planned, and rarin' to be set into motion when the next hurricane, tornado, earthquake, flood or fire occurs? Many many an American will CLEARLY be left to fend for themselves.

Gun people are always on the defensive, like smokers. For some, Economic Disaster = Buying Opportunity. I will suggest that these "Tumultuous Times" signify that Marketing, Promotion and Expansion are the orders of the day for Appleseed AND Unorganized Militia.

Think, Community Outreach.

Think, Social Networking.

Think, Baby Boomers.

Sometimes, KROCS are all the rage. Sometimes, we can't sell enough $200 basketball shoes. In the same country, in the same hundred years, we have had a bloody Prohibition and we have watched Rehab become chic enough for TV.

"At THIS time, at THIS defining moment," as the Great One likes to wax, why should not Bearing Arms and Self-Defense in the tradition of our Forebears be the IN/COOL/TRENDY/POPULAR thing? On daytime TV, it's called a Make Over. On Madison Avenue, it's repackaging the New & Improved version.

In Politics, it's about Reframing The Issue.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Here is some of Dr. Vieira's thoughts on the subject:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin19.htm

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Political theory identifies the two greatest powers of government as The Power of the Purse and The Power of the Sword. Therefore, if any powers will serve, these two powers ought to be capable of being worked in tandem to save America from the greatest and most immediate danger facing her: namely, the collapse of the monetary and banking systems--or scams, if you prefer the language of hard-nosed, unabashed realism--that now plague this country. [/FONT]

This approach is being implemented by:

http://www.committeesofsafety.org/

and Dr. Vieira's book directly on the issue is

 

[cthulhufan]

Great topic!

 

[cheapseats]

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin19.htm

The people who claim that no one could have foreseen this unprecedented crisis are repeatedly those were instrumental TO the crisis and/or those who are on Clean Up. Observe that bailing out the victims of scams can be as lucrative as scamming. AND OBSERVE THAT SOME MAKE MONEY BURNING BOTH ENDS OF THE CANDLE.

Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr., Ph.D., J.D.
December 12, 2005
NewsWithViews.com

Make no mistake about it: There will be monetary and banking crises in America's not-so-distant future. The monetary and banking systems are inherently unstable and inevitably and inexorably self-destructive. The systems' failure may be chronic--a long drawn-out degeneration; episodic--a series of sharp, but relatively limited crises; or even catastrophic--a single mammoth collapse. But fail they will.

...Because rational economic calculation is impossible in a socialist economy, and extremely difficult in a fascist economy, no workable reform of money and banking can come from the top down, through the ministrations of politicians, bureaucrats, and the special-interest groups they serve. Rather, it must come from the bottom up, through the free market. But the Establishment cannot control a bottom-up, free-market reform. And there is zero likelihood that such a spontaneous, popular reform would confirm the Establishment in its position of economic dominance...

 

[cheapseats]

This photo is taken from the overhead walkway at Pico and Westwood, which connects the Westside Paivilion with the cineplex/bookgiant side of the Westside Pavilion Mall. Situated about a mile from the Century City Mall, with ITS Cineplex, and 3 or 4 miles either side of big mall/cineplex developments at Farmer's Market/The Grove, going East, and Third Street Promenade toward the beach. Four HUGE commercial/retail/entertainment Gathering Spots in a fairly short, straight line.

It was taken in October of last year, and I had just pulled it up for a post about Washington and Detroit Brain Deadery regarding our need for more conventional cars.

http://www.peaceandcarats.com

I went there yesterday to see Slumdog Millionaire -- excellent film, by the way.

I snagged a parking spot on the East Side, ducked into Nordstrom like I've done a thousand times, up the first escalator to where the piano player plays and the Wallets wait, then up one more to the overhead walkway dead ahead. I was meeting someone who thinks that I am overreactive, overly tense and that my fears are overblown . . . that I should relax, think positive, lose the anger and go with the flow.

Yes, well.

Slumdog Millionaire is a really, really good movie -- it is likely to win Best Picture. Yes, Planet In Peril, the show DOES go on.

I could watch a movie every day in Ordinary Times. But these are NOT ordinary times. I have grown contemptuous of people who are moseying along with a little belt tightening as their nod to Tough Times. I agreed to what felt very much like an appointment not least to advise this person of my ASAP departure from Los Angeles, where we have both lived for ages.

What to my wondering eyes should I pass as I got off the second elevator? I was so distracted by this very subject that I sailed right past and did a double-take, like a cartoon. Then I deliberated. Go after them for a discreet photo, and be even later for the appointment with someone who already thinks I'm "out there," or casually assign it the ol' "you don't see THAT every day"?

Four of 'em, glad-handing the public. Gettin' down to stroller level with the Moms 'n Babes, shaking the hands of the elderly. The person I was meeting thought it was absolutely no big deal, though we have been to hundreds of movies together without ever seeing it. Me, I don't dig it.

If soldiers are required on Friday, how am I supposed to feel safe on Monday when the soldiers move on to their next Public Relations Opportunity?

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

...

What to my wondering eyes should I pass as I got off the second elevator? I was so distracted by this very subject that I sailed right past and did a double-take, like a cartoon. Then I deliberated. Go after them for a discreet photo, and be even later for the appointment with someone who already thinks I'm "out there," or casually assign it the ol' "you don't see THAT every day"?

Four of 'em, glad-handing the public. Gettin' down to stroller level with the Moms 'n Babes, shaking the hands of the elderly. The person I was meeting thought it was absolutely no big deal, though we have been to hundreds of movies together without ever seeing it. Me, I don't dig it.

If soldiers are required on Friday, how am I supposed to feel safe on Monday when the soldiers move on to their next Public Relations Opportunity?
...

A couple of things to consider:

1. Active Duty Military are a significant block of our supporters.
2. This kind of public relations is probably as old as armies, themselves.
3. Treating our troops like an enemy cannot be healthy.

What is it about seeing troops that you don't dig? Would you feel the same if they were organized militia?

And considering your reaction to the sight of troops, what do you think the avg joe thinks about un-organized militia?

 

[cheapseats]

A couple of things to consider:

1. Active Duty Military are a significant block of our supporters.

1. 
   
   This is among my fondest hopes.
   
   
   

   [*]This kind of public relations is probably as old as armies, themselves.

   
   Not in my world, it isn't. I was among the Consumption Crazed Post-Depression Indulgent Parenting crowd. I WEEP to think how much time I've spent in shopping malls. Little bands of soldiers in fatigues is NOT common.
   
   After 9/11, yes. After the riots, yes. But typically? I am eye witness to the contrary.
   
   
   

   [*]Treating our troops like an enemy cannot be healthy.

   
   Taking note of the HIGHLY UNUSUAL presence of uniformed military in a mall that caters to Soccer Moms and Oldsters does not constitute "treating our troops like an enemy."
   
   I'd like to presume that they are Good Guys. I'd like to think that taxpayer dollars have seen to their excellent training. In view of those two optimistic assumptions, I'd like to think that we are not deploying valuable defensive resources in longstanding shopping/entertainment complexes just for the hell of it.
   
   
   
   

   What is it about seeing troops that you don't dig?
   
   Would you feel the same if they were organized militia?
   
   And considering your reaction to the sight of troops, what do you think the avg joe thinks about un-organized militia?

   
   The Military is an awesome concept. The United States Armed Forces is a particularly intimidating entity. Dudes squatting down doing coochie-coo with babies in strollers are not, I hope, the same guys on whom the national security of the United States of America depends. For one thing, they'll not be able to get to their units in the event of Disaster. They'll be stuck in Los Angeles traffic.
   
   Much BETTER, I should think, that babies and toddlers and mommies and daddies and teens and citizens are accustomed to seeing competent, confident, armed citizens here, there and everywhere.
   
   Four soldiers, who will be gone next week? Is next week safe or unsafe in that mall? With competent, confident, armed citizens being the NORM, rather than the ODDITY, more people will feel AND BE more safe in more places more of the time.
   
   I am postulating, not pontificating. I'm new at this Bearing Arms thing - does it show?

 

[cheapseats]

I cannot think of anything more dissuasive to armed robberies of liquor and convenience stores than the commonplace presence of armed citizens.

Armed robberies will be picking up steam as economic conditions worsen, particularly as the Have Less & Less's see the Have More & More's proceeding unapologetically with their high-flying lifestyles. Because the High Flyers have state-of-the-art security, the people who are still Middle Class will take the hit.

 

[nate895]

From what I understood in your post, you believe the average American is fearful of firearms. I doubt that is true because around 49% of households have at least one person who owns a firearm, so they are for sure not afraid. I, in addition, would believe that more than the people who live in those 49% are friendly to firearms. It is also possible (in fact, I'd venture, likely, based on who owns firearms typically) that the people who live in that 49% of households constitute more than 50% of the population.

 

[cheapseats]

From what I understood in your post, you believe the average American is fearful of firearms. I doubt that is true because around 49% of households have at least one person who owns a firearm, so they are for sure not afraid. I, in addition, would believe that more than the people who live in those 49% are friendly to firearms. It is also possible (in fact, I'd venture, likely, based on who owns firearms typically) that the people who live in that 49% of households constitute more than 50% of the population.

Enough people are fearful of firearms that, after each Weirdo Columbine or Virginia Tech, there is a fresh call for restriction and regulation of such Arms as the public might own and carry for defense of person, family and property.

Enough people maintain a cognitive disconnect between the arms that are used on a municipal sidewalk and the arms that are used in another country's sand that, strangely, even though we have enemies sufficiently dangerous that we send American lives to take and be taken by OTHER lives, those of us who DON'T march onto the battle field somehow have zero need to protect themselves back home in the bleachers.

It is obvious to me that, if push ever does come to shove, those who cannot defend themselves will fall first.

 

[nate895]

Enough people are fearful of firearms that, after each Weirdo Columbine or Virginia Tech, there is a fresh call for restriction and regulation of such Arms as the public might own and carry.

Enough people maintain a cognitive disconnect between the arms that are used on a municipal sidewalk and the arms that are used in another country's sand that, strangely, even though we have enemies sufficiently dangerous that we send American lives to take and be taken by OTHER lives, those of us who DON'T march onto the battle field somehow have zero need to protect themselves back home in the bleachers.

It is obvious to me that, if push ever does come to shove, those who cannot defend themselves will fall first.

That is just media hogwash. The MSM, who is anti-gun, puts on a whole bunch of Brady folks, and then they get all worked up and wind up passing some law that all it does is make it a little harder for the mentally unstable and violent convicts to get arms in a few states. At the rate they are going, either the Federal government will have to intervene with the current Democratic majority and force a full-blown war over the matter, or they will ban firearms in a few hundred years.

 

[cheapseats]

...around 49% of households have at least one person who owns a firearm, so they are for sure not afraid. I, in addition, would believe that more than the people who live in those 49% are friendly to firearms...

I will guess that a significant percent of those households are comprised of men who own weapons of which their wives disapprove and cannot use, and of which their children are unaware. What happens when he's not home?

I'm coming from PROMOTING gun ownership and marksmanship. Like riding a bike and swimming, you don't have to often do either for both to be really good skillz to have under your belt.

 

[cheapseats]

That is just media hogwash. The MSM, who is anti-gun, puts on a whole bunch of Brady folks, and then they get all worked up and wind up passing some law that all it does is make it a little harder for the mentally unstable and violent convicts to get arms in a few states. At the rate they are going, either the Federal government will have to intervene with the current Democratic majority and force a full-blown war over the matter, or they will ban firearms in a few hundred years.

Hogwash, the fanfare that follows Tragedy? I agree. BIG revenue in those hyper-reactions . . . chiefly Billable Hours for attorneys.

Not hogwash, I think, that the broadcloth of ordinary Americans are woefully unable to defend themselves under attack and that the unarmed will fall first if -- God forbid, except He doesn't -- all hell breaks loose.

 

[nate895]

I will guess that a significant percent of those households are comprised of men who own weapons of which their wives disapprove and cannot use, and of which their children are unaware. What happens when he's not home?

I'm coming from PROMOTING gun ownership and marksmanship. Like riding a bike and swimming, you don't have to often do either for both to be really good skillz to have under your belt.

Considering the averages around 4-5 guns per firearm owning household, that is probably a significant minority. 31% of adults own firearms overall, averaging 3-4 per person. It is hard to hide that many firearms.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

This is among my fondest hopes.

I believe the overwhelming support for RP above all the other candidates speaks volumes...

Not in my world, it isn't. I was among the Consumption Crazed Post-Depression Indulgent Parenting crowd. I WEEP to think how much time I've spent in shopping malls. Little bands of soldiers in fatigues is NOT common.

After 9/11, yes. After the riots, yes. But typically, I am eye witness to the contrary.

Well, I get around and do not find this strange at all. Notably in a time when our forces are stretched and recruitment is a priority.

Taking note of the HIGHLY UNUSUAL presence of uniformed military in a mall that caters to Soccer Moms and Oldsters does not constitute "treating our troops like an enemy."

IMHO- Your emphasizing of what you see as "highly unusual", (and others consider kinda normal) seems an over-reaction. Couple that with your, "Go after them for a discreet photo" and I see you considering them a threat, hence an enemy

...

Much BETTER, I should think, that babies and toddlers and mommies and daddies and teens and citizens are accustomed to seeing competent, confident, armed citizens here, there and everywhere.

Four soldiers, who will be gone next week? Is next week safe or unsafe in that mall? With competent, confident, armed citizens being the NORM, rather than the ODDITY, more people will feel AND BE more safe in more places more of the time.

I am postulating, not pontificating. I'm new at this Bearing Arms thing - does it show?

yes, an unorganized militia of everyday armed citizens would do a much better job at "keeping the peace", in general, and is one of the requirements for the existence of an organized militia, which has separate benefits.

Which brings us back to the topic of this thread, "Militia = Legal & Prudent, Why Hide?"

 

[nate895]

Hogwash, the fanfare that follows Tragedy? I agree. BIG revenue in those hyper-reactions . . . chiefly Billable Hours for attorneys.

Not hogwash, I think, that the broadcloth of ordinary Americans are woefully unable to defend themselves under attack and that the unarmed will fall first if -- God forbid, except He doesn't -- all hell breaks loose.

Well, I agree that I'd prefer to see firearm ownership and proficiency rates show the vast majority of the population owning one, but just because that is not the case doesn't mean that the population as a whole is anti-gun.

 

[cheapseats]

Well, I agree that I'd prefer to see firearm ownership and proficiency rates show the vast majority of the population owning one, but just because that is not the case doesn't mean that the population as a whole is anti-gun.

Exactly so. I am adding TO that, by pointing out that the people who are afraid of guns and who SUPPORT more control/bans are AFRAID, period. These people must be confronted with the REALITY that they DO support guns, American-made ones which they themselves pay for and which are regularly violating their smug Sanctity of Life values by blowing people in other countries to smithereens. And they must be made to appreciate that every one of those people who are blown to smithereens by American guns incites more people who want to blow Americans to smithereens.

I am saying that gun owners, like smokers, have been on the defensive for years. It's pretty hard to defend smoking, I would know - though I maintain that, if you'll allow their manufacture and sale, you have to allow their consumption.

But now, Depression AND War AND Terrorism? I see that as the "confluence of events" for proactive marketing of Bearing Arms. Treat self-defense as a Business, rather than a Civil Liberty . . . offense, rather than defense.

 

[cheapseats]

I believe the overwhelming support for RP above all the other candidates speaks volumes...

Music to MY ears.

Well, I get around and do not find this strange at all. Notably in a time when our forces are stretched and recruitment is a priority.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If Military regularly makes it's presence visible, that is one thing - and a premise that warrants debate. When Military makes its presence visible sporadically and unpredictably and inconsistently, it's a Mindfuck.

IMHO- Your emphasizing of what you see as "highly unusual", (and others consider kinda normal) seems an over-reaction. Couple that with your, "Go after them for a discreet photo" and I see you considering them a threat, hence an enemy

Nope. But nor do I seek out exchanges with Military and Law Enforcement.
...

yes, an unorganized militia of everyday armed citizens would do a much better job at "keeping the peace", in general, and is one of the requirements for the existence of an organized militia, which has separate benefits.

Which brings us back to the topic of this thread, "Militia = Legal & Prudent, Why Hide?"

Yep. I am suggesting that it's time to dust off and mainstream the oh-so-legal and oh-so-prudent concept of Unorganized Militia.

My understanding is that the National Guard constitutes Organized Militia.

 

[phill4paul]

cheapseats this is a good post.

I have never had a problem with seeing any in military uniforms acting with those they defend. I truthfully think there should be more to it. I often see military and I always make a point of approaching and giving a heartfelt thank you. I guess maybe that is because I have served.

Now that I am more aware of..well many things, I also get into a discussion with them.

I intro talking about boot camp and how much that experience had changed me. Then I will guide the conversation to the common oath that they and I share. "To uphold and defend the Constitution" and what it means. Then I steer them towards lawful and unlawful order discussions.

I remind them that each and every civilian is their or their squadmates mother, brother, sister etc.

The point of boot camp was to de-humanize the "enemy". I make it a point to reestablish that no citizen of the U.S. should be considered an "enemy" by those that serve in the military and are sworn to defend and uphold the Constitution.

 

[cthulhufan]

cheapseats this is a good post.

I have never had a problem with seeing any in military uniforms acting with those they defend. I truthfully think there should be more to it. I often see military and I always make a point of approaching and giving a heartfelt thank you. I guess maybe that is because I have served.

Now that I am more aware of..well many things, I also get into a discussion with them.

I intro talking about boot camp and how much that experience had changed me. Then I will guide the conversation to the common oath that they and I share. "To uphold and defend the Constitution" and what it means. Then I steer them towards lawful and unlawful order discussions.

I remind them that each and every civilian is their or their squadmates mother, brother, sister etc.

The point of boot camp was to de-humanize the "enemy". I make it a point to reestablish that no citizen of the U.S. should be considered an "enemy" by those that serve in the military and are sworn to defend and uphold the Constitution.

Absolutely! Boot is a great ice breaker and then following up with a genuine and heartfelt "Thank You" with the added benefit that they know you've been there and done that. Can't say I've been to 'Nam or something but establishing the commonality of "I served" WILLINGLY and I appreciate that you are too is great.

Great point on the oath to THE CONSTITUTION and the whole civilians are your family matter...

We have more friends in the military than most suspect, I'll wager.