Mary the Queen of Heaven

[TER]

If she has faith in Christ, then she is already a part of His Church, as all who have faith in him are.

My friend, being in Christ Who is the infinite Word of God has degrees. She has chosen the fullest and most assured way.

 

[erowe1]

My friend, being in Christ Who is the infinite Word of God has degrees. She has chosen the fullest and most assured way.

There is only one true Church. You're either in it, or you're not. All who have faith in Christ are in it.

 

[TER]

There is only one true Church. You're either in it, or you're not. All who have faith in Christ are in it.

The sad truth is that many who think they are in the Church will not be on that day, and many who thought they were will be shut out.

 

[erowe1]

The sad truth is that many who think they are in the Church will not be on that day, and many who thought they were will be shut out.

Yes. And, according to Jesus and His apostles, the way in is by faith in Christ.

It is through one's relationship with Jesus that one is joined to the Church, and not through one's relationship with the Church that one is joined to Christ.

 

[TER]

Yes. And, according to Jesus and His apostles, the way in is by faith in Christ.

It is through one's relationship with Jesus that one is joined to the Church, and not through one's relationship with the Church that one is joined to Christ.

Yes, faith goes a long way. But faith without works is dead. Our works are to seek Christ and enter into communion with His Church, not create our own.

 

[Terry1]

If she has faith in Christ, then she is already a part of His Church, as all who have faith in him are.

Yes, but faith is not an illusive or obscure state of mind. Faith is something we do in response to back up our belief. Faith is an action and a response to our belief. Without a work of faith by actually doing something to contribute to the spiritual well-being of mankind--we have no faith or witness--they are both dead. What good is our faith when we can't hear the Holy Spirit telling us to feed the hungry, help heal and care for the sick and the poor. We do what our conscience tells us when we walk in the spirit of the Lord. We live in a spontaneous state of reaction to what is being prompted upon our conscience. That is believing--that is backing up our belief with faith. Faith is indeed an action of which without--is dead faith and we can fall from grace if we ignore the voice of the Holy Spirit for too long. This is the message of true salvation in Christ.

 

[lilymc]

Yes. And, according to Jesus and His apostles, the way in is by faith in Christ.

It is through one's relationship with Jesus that one is joined to the Church, and not through one's relationship with the Church that one is joined to Christ.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to erowe1 again.

 

[Terry1]

Yes, faith goes a long way. But faith without works is dead. Our works are to seek Christ and enter into communion with His Church, not create our own.

Amen TER! I was typing as you wrote this.

 

[lilymc]

Yes, faith goes a long way. But faith without works is dead. Our works are to seek Christ and enter into communion with His Church, not create our own.

In the above sentence, how are you defining "His Church"?

 

[TER]

In the above sentence, how are you defining "His Church"?

The Church of the New Testament.

 

[lilymc]

The Church of the New Testament.

Ok, thanks for the reply. So, can you elaborate on what exactly you meant by "not create your own" (church) ?


.

 

[Terry1]

In the above sentence, how are you defining "His Church"?

Christ's church are the keepers of the true saving Gospel message. We are not eternally secure in this life. We are not once saved always saved. We are not chosen in this life. This life is a test--God chooses whom He will after we've been tested and proven true. We are only of the Elect of God as long as we abide in Christ in this life. Fall from faith--and we are no longer Elect. Hence Paul tells us 2 Timothy 2: 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Why else would Paul state that the Elect *MIGHT OBTAIN* something that the word "Elect" indicates they already have? Because as Paul tells us--in this life and to the very end of it that it's possible to fall away. Jesus tells us that the "overcomers"--those who endure till the end are the only ones He will confess before the Father in Heaven--Rev. 3:5.

 

[TER]

Ok, thanks for the reply. So, can you elaborate on what exactly you meant by "not create your own" (church) ?
.

Actually, I would much rather us understand what we mean by the New Testament Church. This seems like a more important thing to know and we must actually first understand it before we can begin to know what it means to create your own church.

 

[lilymc]

Actually, I would much rather us understand what we mean by the New Testament Church. This seems like a more important thing to know and we must actually first understand it before we can begin to know what it means to create your own church.

We've already talked about this a few times. All who have a true, saving faith in Christ are the church. Those who have been born again...and not merely going to church on Sunday, but are surrendered to God, and have a changed life that is evidence of their faith.

So can you please answer my previous question - If you were talking about the same church that erowe1, Kevin, myself, Dr.3d and others have been talking about.... then why did you say, "not create your own church"? I'm just curious.

 

[lilymc]

Christ's church are the keepers of the true saving Gospel message. We are not eternally secure in this life. We are not once saved always saved. We are not chosen in this life. This life is a test--God chooses whom He will after we've been tested and proven true. We are only of the Elect of God as long as we abide in Christ in this life. Fall from faith--and we are no longer Elect. Hence Paul tells us 2 Timothy 2: 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Why else would Paul state that the Elect *MIGHT OBTAIN* something that the word "Elect" indicates they already have? Because as Paul tells us--in this life and to the very end of it that it's possible to fall away. Jesus tells us that the "overcomers"--those who endure till the end are the only ones He will confess before the Father in Heaven--Rev. 3:5.

I disagree, but I honestly don't feel like getting into a big discussion on that, at the moment.

I just wanted to know what TER had in mind when he said "enter into communion with His Church".

This is why I really dislike religion, and denominations. People end up putting way, way, way too much emphasis on their church, their doctrines and their religious stuff, instead of just getting back to the basics. And doing what is important - God's will.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

We've already talked about this a few times. All who have a true, saving faith in Christ are the church. Those who have been born again...and not merely going to church on Sunday, but are surrendered to God, and have a changed life that is evidence of their faith.

So can you please answer my previous question - If you were talking about the same church that erowe1, Kevin, myself, Dr.3d and others have been talking about.... then why did you say, "not create your own church"? I'm just curious.

You're getting into OSAS and similar doctrinal territory. That doesn't stand up to scriptural or historical tests.

 

[TER]

We've already talked about this a few times. All who have a true, saving faith in Christ are the church. Those who have been born again...and not merely going to church on Sunday, but are surrendered to God, and have a changed life that is evidence of their faith.

Lily, I am not doubting that Christ is active in your life. I am not denying that the Holy Spirit is in your life.

The question is in regards to the Church we learn about in the New Testament. In this Church, having faith was not enough. You also had to be baptized. Are you aware of that?

 

[Terry1]

I disagree, but I honestly don't feel like getting into a big discussion on that, at the moment.

If you don't mind me asking respectfully, I would appreciate a reason as to why you disagree with my statements above. Do you believe that we are eternally secure in this life outside of continually abiding in Christ? If so--how so?

I just wanted to know what TER had in mind when he said "enter into communion with His Church".

The church of this world is both physical and spiritual and there is a correct way to believe and a true Gospel message that is taught by that church. This is all about being led of the Spirit and the ability to *rightly divide* what is and isn't of God. Just because you don't believe in the practice of one thing--is not an indication that the baby must be tossed out with the bathwater. We are called to spiritually discern and rightly divide the word of God as to what is and is not true.

This is why I really dislike religion, and denominations. People end up putting way, way, way too much emphasis on their church, their doctrines and their religious stuff, instead of just getting back to the basics. And doing what is important - God's will.

God's will is what you personally are led to believe as a result of "walking in the spirit of the Lord". I can not sit here and tell you that you are wrong. All I can disagree with is what is biblically correct and what isn't according to what I've been spiritually led to believe. It all has to reconcile with the teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and if it does not--then we have to question as to why what we believe isn't matching up with the rest of scripture.

The EOC teaches the ancient message of the Gospel and can be literally traced to the original teachings of the apostles and the New Testament church--not the new age reformed protestant version of the 15th century reformers. I am talking about the Gospel message here and nothing else because nothing else saves like the Gospel of Jesus Christ that match up with the teachings of the Apostle Paul and James as well. No other church in this world comes closer to the truest Gospel message than the EOC.

 

[lilymc]

Lily, I am not doubting that Christ is active in your life. I am not denying that the Holy Spirit is in your life.

The question is in regards to the Church we learn about in the New Testament. In this Church, having faith was not enough. You also had to be baptized. Are you aware of that?

Yes, I have been baptized. Click on the video below for a quick clip of it. However, if you believe that being dunked in water is an absolute requirement for salvation, I'm going to have to disagree. I'm noticing a pattern here. You seem to place so much emphasis on physical things....in this case, the physical act of being dunked in water. The important thing is not what is not physical, but the inner change that takes place in someone, a true spiritual birth.

Without that, it really doesn't matter if one is baptized - either as a baby or adult - because we are not saved by physical acts.

 

[lilymc]

Btw, TER, you still didn't answer my question. I think this is the 3rd time now, so hopefully you will answer it.

Here it is again, in case you forgot: "So can you please answer my previous question - If you were talking about the same church that erowe1, Kevin, myself, Dr.3d and others have been talking about.... then why did you say, "not create your own church"? I'm just curious."