MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: Lawyers for Ron Paul Lawsuit NOTE: Having the lawsuit not up 4 debate

I don't understand why he didn't give himself a little more time before filing.

But, perhaps, the judge mentioning that "...there are several indisputably constitutional alternative interpretations of Section 1971(b)" then allows him to request that the judge reveal those interpretations since he (plantiffs/Gilbert) is "asking" him (the judge) to.

A lexis/nexis search will give every applicable case, there's no need to ask the judge.

Every lawyer in the states pays to access lexis/nexis and any of them who so choose (including those chiming in here) could provide the data.

I'm certain this Gilbert fellow has access too......

Computers have made legal research quite simple, I started using Shepards in hardback...

One of you folks "in the legal profession" should buck-up and help out..
 
Sorry man!

Our cyber lines crossed..

In plain English you're saying this Gilbert fellow failed to state a claim that could be adjudicated, right?


I greatly appreciate the insults. My son was standing over my shoulder when I pulled the thread up. As to some of the other comments, as I've indicated previously, I am limited in what I role I can play.

Here is where it stands: 1) Gilbert filed his complaint. 2) The Judge dismissed his complaint as inadequate for failure to provide supportive facts and gave Gilbert one last chance to plead sufficient facts. 3) Gilbert today filed an amended complaint without any facts whatsoever (who specifically did what, where and when).

Unfortunately, Gilbert has created a procedural box. Amendments to a complaint are barred after Defendants answer unless the Court gives leave. Here, the Court granted leave but stated explicitly this (what was filed today) was the last chance.

A complaint is a critical procedural requirement to proceed with a lawsuit. Courts don't just pontificate on what the law should be (ie. whether or not the Voting Rights Act applies to the RNC Convention). They look to specific wrongdoing, supported by specific factual circumstances, that violates the law and which are susceptible to an appropriate remedy. Gilbert's complaint fails to meet the first threshold (specific wrongdoing) and merely makes an argument for what the law should be (that's for Congress, not a Judge).

The Judge has already stated that no further amendments will be permitted in extremely directly language. Additional filings will be disregarded, whether by Gilbert or third parties. The problem is the complaint itself, not attachments to it and there is now no ability to fix the underlying document.

As to the use of an amicus brief, those require either A) Permission from both parties or B) Leave from the Court. But, a brief is not the complaint itself. The complaint outlines the nature of the dispute. A brief merely makes arguments on the law. An amicus brief is irrelevant because the issue is not legal argument but factual sufficiency.

I'm sorry I'm such a downer. I've been watching this for a few weeks and thought I'd share my observations. Apparently some would prefer that I don't.
 
What I don't understand is why he isn't giving the judge what he said he needed. The judge seems to be giving him all kinds of opportunities.

Is anyone else frustrated?

Yes, I am. I think I could have done a better job (of producing the document and evidence) even without the law education, but maybe I'm wrong about that.
 
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There has been no motion from the defense to dismiss.. but that is a possibility, unless the defense thinks that a ruling on this would be in their favor... be careful what you wish for.. There was not enough time and thought put into the first 2 filings.. apparently some major considerations were given by RG to how he filed, since he stated he had been working on this for some time now.. He is still using the Utah letter, which is a incomplete presentation of the facts.
 
Sorry man!

Our cyber lines crossed..

In plain English you're saying this Gilbert fellow failed to state a claim that could be adjudicated, right?


That is exactly what I am saying.


Someone above asked why I hadn't posted sooner. I applied for membership some time ago. It took awhile to get approved. Then, I really didn't have a chance to read everything until last night.
 
I must say, other than your unwillingness to consider cutting losses by dropping the case, I admire your attitude in the way you are trying to see this to the end.

Will you be in Tampa?
why?...you gonna be there with a ''HAHA Paul Supporters, you lose!'' sign? with Steve next to you with a Mitt sign?
 
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There has been no motion from the defense to dismiss.. but that is a possibility, unless the defense thinks that a ruling on this would be in their favor... be careful what you wish for.. There was not enough time and thought put into the first 2 filings.. apparently some major considerations were given by RG to how he filed, since he stated he had been working on this for some time now.. He is still using the Utah letter, which is a incomplete presentation of the facts.

Yea, he seems to be going the route of "Rule 38" and the RNC's interpretation of that in 2008 as one of his arguments that Federal Law (VRA) applies to binding.
 
Yes, I am. I think I could have done a better job (of producing the document and evidence) even without the law education, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

A judge has tremendous latitude as to what he lets go on in his courtroom, he CAN choose to let the case proceed...BUT...any ruling would be subject to being overturned on appeal..(to a judge this is worse than tar-n-feathers)

We'll see...
 
I greatly appreciate the insults. My son was standing over my shoulder when I pulled the thread up. As to some of the other comments, as I've indicated previously, I am limited in what I role I can play.

Here is where it stands: 1) Gilbert filed his complaint. 2) The Judge dismissed his complaint as inadequate for failure to provide supportive facts and gave Gilbert one last chance to plead sufficient facts. 3) Gilbert today filed an amended complaint without any facts whatsoever (who specifically did what, where and when).

Unfortunately, Gilbert has created a procedural box. Amendments to a complaint are barred after Defendants answer unless the Court gives leave. Here, the Court granted leave but stated explicitly this (what was filed today) was the last chance.

A complaint is a critical procedural requirement to proceed with a lawsuit. Courts don't just pontificate on what the law should be (ie. whether or not the Voting Rights Act applies to the RNC Convention). They look to specific wrongdoing, supported by specific factual circumstances, that violates the law and which are susceptible to an appropriate remedy. Gilbert's complaint fails to meet the first threshold (specific wrongdoing) and merely makes an argument for what the law should be (that's for Congress, not a Judge).
Part of the reason for the requirement of a valid complaint is that every Defendant is entitled to know specifically what the Plaintiff alleges they have done. For instance, the Republican Party of Kansas is entitled to know what specific wrongs it has committed. What happened in Arizona or Massachusetts is irrelevant. There has to be specific acts committed by each Defendant.

The Judge has already stated that no further amendments will be permitted in extremely directly language. Additional filings will be disregarded, whether by Gilbert or third parties. The problem is the complaint itself, not attachments to it and there is now no ability to fix the underlying document.

As to the use of an amicus brief, those require either A) Permission from both parties or B) Leave from the Court. But, a brief is not the complaint itself. The complaint outlines the nature of the dispute. A brief merely makes arguments on the law. An amicus brief is irrelevant because the issue is not legal argument but factual sufficiency.

I'm sorry I'm such a downer. I've been watching this for a few weeks and thought I'd share my observations. Apparently some would prefer that I don't.

No response has been filed to the new complaint. Further, while the judge did say this was the final amendment he has discretion to change his mind. He put a lot of work into saying what was needed and if you are right and he strikes what is there (and I'm not sure I'm convinced that would happen since that single thing does allege its facts) It seems to me if Gilbert had in his response to the next motion to strike the actual text of a fact driven complaint and said THIS is what I want to amend to, the judge might feel he wasn't on a futile path and let him.

It seems to me it is worth a shot.

But I think we should probably get a federal practice attorney who can look at it, with whom we are either more familiar, or whom we know, to give us an opinion on what was just filed. If you could help that would be one thing, but just saying all is lost doesn't help advance the ball, even if it is just your honest opinion. If we are thinking of trying to help, we need someone who can do that. Just sitting by isn't really something we do well.
 
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I'm sure what they will do is just renew their motion to dismiss, reference the Judge's previous ruling and point out the lack of compliance on the factual issue.

But, once the issue of sufficiency has been raised, as here, the Judge can dismiss for failure to follow his direction without a filing by the Defendants.
 
from what i understand, the case has been dismissed twice, but without prejudice to the plaintiff(us).
we have one more try before judge says give it up.
The case was only dismissed once, Richards first try at amending the case was denied, the court instructed him how to file the amendment..
Today's filing makes it the 3rd and final one.
 
I'm sure what they will do is just renew their motion to dismiss, reference the Judge's previous ruling and point out the lack of compliance on the factual issue.

But, once the issue of sufficiency has been raised, as here, the Judge can dismiss for failure to follow his direction without a filing by the Defendants.

He can, but given he was up until midnight trying to give direction on how to file WILL he, if there is a more responsive complaint already before him?

Assuming he doesn't accept the new narrower action.
 
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It just doesn't address the fraud and abuse at the conventions and putting that in, just as why we need the question clarified, even might be helpful. But frankly, I just miss it because to ME that was what the case was mostly about.

Maybe it has been boiled down to simplicity. The RNC Attorney asserts that they can change the rules at any time as they see fit and that is in the record and in the mind of the Judge. So, do we need to prove that in St. Charles they changed the rules and announced that no recording devices were allowed, then threatened arrests, then proceeded with a false arrest. No need to even go there.
Again, the RNC Attorney assumes that party rules trumps Federal Law. RNC just needs to know that they are wrong and will follow Federal Law.

This is my own view and is NOT approved of by lawdiddly
 
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Steve is just giving his honest opinion.. it doesn't make him a "Romney supporter", it makes him a realistic person... facts are facts.. no time for candy coating.
 
Steve is just giving his honest opinion.. it doesn't make him a "Romney supporter", it makes him a realistic person... facts are facts.. no time for candy coating.
His honest opinion would make it his honest opinion, not a fact.

However if we are going to act on his opinion we need to be fast about it.
 
As much as everyone want this to be considered a "general", "federal" election no where is it stated that a National convention is a federal election.. if so can someone post that
 
As much as everyone want this to be considered a "general", "federal" election no where is it stated that a National convention is a federal election.. if so can someone post that

that is precisely the question the court has been asked to decide, given the term DELEGATES is used in the statute in question.

Where else would a federal election as defined by the statute have delegates?


But my own liking for the case had more to do with the fraud aspects and I would have written the RNC part differently. I think they may have a right to set rules, at least where not expressly forbidden by the statute, but not to change them mid stream.
 
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As much as everyone want this to be considered a "general", "federal" election no where is it stated that a National convention is a federal election.. if so can someone post that

Read the arguments that Gilbert gave on the subject starting at about page 32 or 33 of the filing.

He tries to show that the RNC IS a federal election and does quite well at it. It seems that's almost his entire argument.
 
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