MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: Lawyers for Ron Paul Lawsuit NOTE: Having the lawsuit not up 4 debate

[jay_dub]

Why do I foresee this ending badly, with Ron really despising a lot of his own supporters...

How can this end any worse than the likely outcome we were facing? Nature abhors a vacuum. The campaign, in many ways, brought this on itself. It is not fair to the delegates to ask them to go through the time, expense and effort just to have a campaign that insists on going belly-up.

How can Ron despise the base he built when it decides to to stand its ground, much as he has for the last 30 years? The legal route is certainly preferable to having frustrations vented at Tampa.

I would remind you that injuries have been sustained, arrests have been made, rules have been violated, votes have gone uncounted and myriad shenanigans have been documented on video. In Nevada the Old Guard has formed a shadow party, apparently with the RNC's blessing. Just how much do you think we should be dumped on and remain silent? These lawyers are providing an avenue for redress that the campaign has been unwilling to undertake. I think Ron knows this. He may be surprised, but I don't see him despising anyone for it.

 

[TheGrinch]

Why do I foresee this ending badly, with Ron really despising a lot of his own supporters...

I disagree. As much as I've been a staunch defender of Ron and the campaign, they've really put their heads in the sand about all of this disenfranchisement.

When I emailed Wead some time ago about the possibilities for a 3rd party run, one of things he said was that we were going to "expose their corruption". I was even under the impression that some of our donations would be going to support the legal battles, but I've not seen anything come of it, other than Doug paying lip service to it on his blog. I mean, when Rachel Maddow has done more to expose the corruption then they have (just to bash republicans of course), that's not good...

So I think they've pretty much necessitated this by keeping their heads in the sand about it. People have been disenfranchised and should demand justice... And who knows, maybe there are some consciences in all of those other delegates who've seen the scummy lengths that they've gone....

But regardless, if they're successful, this will make headlines, and I'll take whatever bad press we might get on the convention floor to show that they're the ones who've been playing dirty all along.

 

[TheGrinch]

How can this end any worse than the likely outcome we were facing? Nature abhors a vacuum. The campaign, in many ways, brought this on itself. It is not fair to the delegates to ask them to go through the time, expense and effort just to have a campaign that insists on going belly-up.

How can Ron despise the base he built when it decides to to stand its ground, much as he has for the last 30 years? The legal route is certainly preferable to having frustrations vented at Tampa.

I would remind you that injuries have been sustained, arrests have been made, rules have been violated, votes have gone uncounted and myriad shenanigans have been documented on video. In Nevada the Old Guard has formed a shadow party, apparently with the RNC's blessing. Just how much do you think we should be dumped on and remain silent? These lawyers are providing an avenue for redress that the campaign has been unwilling to undertake. I think Ron knows this. He may be surprised, but I don't see him despising anyone for it.

You beat me to it. I agree completely.

Also, Ron has said all along that anyone with evidence of disenfranchisement or shenanigans should pursue it.

 

[leslymill]

I have listened to it twice.

 

[acptulsa]

Basis ?

=singular. Bases=plural, as in more than one basis.

And the fat lady ain't sung yet, folks. Our job is to sell this action as the right thing for both the G.O.P. and the nation. Which shouldn't be all that hard as this happens to be the case.

 

[TrishW]

Why do I foresee this ending badly, with Ron really despising a lot of his own supporters...

I think you are wrong. Why would Ron Paul despise people for standing up to injustices? Where has Ron Paul ever chosen his battles on the prospect of winning or losing? You must do what is right, and what is needed to keep America free. Even if in the end there is no justice, you will know that at least you kept fighting. Perhaps, I am wrong, but this is the Ron Paul that I have come to know.

Granted they likely will lose, but more delegates have already shown a interest in signing on to the complaint. They expect many more. Of course its about ousting Romney, but there is also a much bigger picture. Why should the American election not be honest and fair? I am tired of hearing the Republicans are a club. The hell with that! This so called club as a 50% or better chance of producing the next President of the United States! Surely they must be held to a high standard of open and fair elections? If nothing else we need to get that cleared up, not only for now, but for all future elections! Don't you agree?

 

[SilenceDewgooder]

I disagree. As much as I've been a staunch defender of Ron and the campaign, they've really put their heads in the sand about all of this disenfranchisement.

When I emailed Wead some time ago about the possibilities for a 3rd party run, one of things he said was that we were going to "expose their corruption". I was even under the impression that some of our donations would be going to support the legal battles, but I've not seen anything come of it, other than Doug paying lip service to it on his blog. I mean, when Rachel Maddow has done more to expose the corruption then they have (just to bash republicans of course), that's not good...

So I think they've pretty much necessitated this by keeping their heads in the sand about it. People have been disenfranchised and should demand justice... And who knows, maybe there are some consciences in all of those other delegates who've seen the scummy lengths that they've gone....

But regardless, if they're successful, this will make headlines, and I'll take whatever bad press we might get on the convention floor to show that they're the ones who've been playing dirty all along.

Did they keep their heads in the sand or was it just bait. The more the GOP "got away" with, the more blatant they became. It's been a while, but the last time I went fishing, I didn't catch anything just using a shiny hook.

Do you think that Dr. Paul can talk about an upcoming war years before it happens (Iraq, 1998) and predict a housing downturn (2002) but yet failed to comprehend the possible actions the GOP would take, especially after the negative 16,000 votes in FL in 2008?



I am in no way implying Dr. Paul is psychic by any stretch of the imagination, but he simply reads the writing on the wall. And if the information is foreshadowing a certain outcome, then why not strategize against it?

 

[KingNothing]

Why do I foresee this ending badly, with Ron really despising a lot of his own supporters...

I doubt this will be effective, but I see no reason not to venture down this path. That said, I predict plenty of complaining mixed with bombastic, overly dramatic rhetoric from our fellow supporters. And I don't think that will offend Paul. Its our MO.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

"If the judge rules in our favor, I won't be surprised if three or four new candidates, say Sarah Palin, jump in and say they want to be considered," Gilbert said.

If so, what will Tampa look like?

 

[TrishW]

Did they keep their heads in the sand or was it just bait. The more the GOP "got away" with, the more blatant they became. It's been a while, but the last time I went fishing, I didn't catch anything just using a shiny hook.

Do you think that Dr. Paul can talk about an upcoming war years before it happens (Iraq, 1998) and predict a housing downturn (2002) but yet failed to comprehend the possible actions the GOP would take, especially after the negative 16,000 votes in FL in 2008?



I am in no way implying Dr. Paul is psychic by any stretch of the imagination, but he simply reads the writing on the wall. And if the information is foreshadowing a certain outcome, then why not strategize against it?

Then perhaps he knows what we would do too...

Ron Paul is not destined to quietly ride his white horse into the sunset... He has torched the hills with his ideas. The fire burns, and I think Ron Paul is the last one wanting to put it out.

 

[KingNothing]

Why should the American election not be honest and fair? I am tired of hearing the Republicans are a club. The hell with that! This so called club as a 50% or better chance of producing the next President of the United States! Surely they must be held to a high standard of open and fair elections? If nothing else we need to get that cleared up, not only for now, but for all future elections! Don't you agree?

The biggest concern with the Party is that they abide by any contracts they might have. If they found a legal way to nominate a goat or a block of cheese, without violating any contracts, as a private organization why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

The problems arise when they say "hey, if you give us money and follow these rules, we will do X, Y and Z." In many instances, we've played by the agreed-upon rules but they changed them when they didn't like the results. That's not exactly appropriate, and I think it is entirely reasonable to take legal action against any entity that didn't follow through with their end of the bargain.

 

[RDM]

If so, what will Tampa look like?

Good question. But if this lawsuit were to open the door for that scenario, one thing for certain, there should and could be a lot of appreciation for the Ron Paul movement and THAT could create a scenario where WE get rewarded with a special thanks.

 

[realtonygoodwin]

So, now we are for the government telling a private club/organization how they should be run?

 

[RDM]

So, now we are for the government telling a private club/organization how they should be run?

Glad to see you value your right to vote and have it mean something.

 

[TheGrinch]

So, now we are for the government telling a private club/organization how they should be run?

No, its called contract enforcementwhich is a legitimate government function.

Its one thing for them to make up their own rules, but another thing entirely to not follow the rules they set forth to disenfranchised paying members.

 

[realtonygoodwin]

Glad to see you value your right to vote and have it mean something.

So, that's a yes?

No, its called contract enforcementwhich is a legitimate government function.

Its one thing for them to make up their own rules, but another thing entirely to not follow the rules they set forth to disenfranchised paying members.

Do they have signed contracts? I don't know.

 

[TheGrinch]

So, that's a yes?



Do they have signed contracts? I don't know.

Contract enforcement in the loose sense, kind of like false advertising... I do not think that an actual contract is required for the participant, it has to do with the written rules that have been laid out by those in charge... Particularly when you have people pay to join, then just like advertising, sales, anything, you're bound to not misrepresent your product or service, under penalty of law... I mean, companies can't sell soda as fruit juice can they? Same thing in my view.

Moreover, when it comes to something having to do with the election process, you should expect that they should be bound to doing what they say they're going to do. Not to say the courts will agree, but they should...

 

[torchbearer]

The biggest concern with the Party is that they abide by any contracts they might have. If they found a legal way to nominate a goat or a block of cheese, without violating any contracts, as a private organization why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

The problems arise when they say "hey, if you give us money and follow these rules, we will do X, Y and Z." In many instances, we've played by the agreed-upon rules but they changed them when they didn't like the results. That's not exactly appropriate, and I think it is entirely reasonable to take legal action against any entity that didn't follow through with their end of the bargain.

good point

 

[TrishW]

So, now we are for the government telling a private club/organization how they should be run?

YES! When the private club/organization is a willing participate of fraud... yes. When the private club/organization is utilizing monies from our taxes to finance their primaries... Hell Yes!

 

[Cowlesy]

How can this end any worse than the likely outcome we were facing? Nature abhors a vacuum. The campaign, in many ways, brought this on itself. It is not fair to the delegates to ask them to go through the time, expense and effort just to have a campaign that insists on going belly-up.

How can Ron despise the base he built when it decides to to stand its ground, much as he has for the last 30 years? The legal route is certainly preferable to having frustrations vented at Tampa.

I would remind you that injuries have been sustained, arrests have been made, rules have been violated, votes have gone uncounted and myriad shenanigans have been documented on video. In Nevada the Old Guard has formed a shadow party, apparently with the RNC's blessing. Just how much do you think we should be dumped on and remain silent? These lawyers are providing an avenue for redress that the campaign has been unwilling to undertake. I think Ron knows this. He may be surprised, but I don't see him despising anyone for it.

It presupposes that Ron was being disingenuous to us in that he is winding down his campaign, realizing he can't win the nomination. I don't believe he was being disingenuous, so I kind of see all these actions as an attempt to co-opt what he thinks is being wound down, without his knowledge, for some righteous purpose about which Ron is unaware.

I'm not saying don't do it. Go nuts and have fun if you think it's going to make you feel better or somehow, against astronomical odds, make Ron become POTUS.

The thing is, having been around these forums and the campaigns since 2007 for a variety of campaigns, it seems like these types of exercises usually lead to relationship issues between otherwise congenial supporters, and somehow leads to people making pointless donations. I am not saying anyone anywhere in any of this has asked for one red cent, just how things have gone in the past.

Like I said, if it makes you feel good, go for it.