LP Founder David Nolan: "Sending money to Schiff was a colossal waste of resources"

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Yes, I am aware of their history. In a more uninformed, unfortunate part of my youth, I was a member.

The country has laws which make third parties incredibly uncompetitive. The rational members of the party have left, which is why only lunatics and weirdos remain. The GOP is the obvious choice for people of a limited government persuasion in today's climate.

Political education really doesn't come from a political campaign. It's an extremely inefficient way to spread a message. Think tanks, PACs, books, articles, hell, even letters to the editor, are much better methods, and much more cost effective.

Are you willing to bet 50$ that when the GOP takes the House and Senate again they will decrease the size of Government? I will bet 50$ that they increase it.

It is much easier to influence your county, or state than the .Fed. If we are ever going to change the size of Government through political ends its going to come from the States asserting autonomy. I still would like to see Schiff, Kokesh, et. al up in DC if for no other reason as to give me a reason to watch C-Span

 

[G-Wohl]

Are you willing to bet 50$ that when the GOP takes the House and Senate again they will decrease the size of Government? I will bet 50$ that they increase it.

It is much easier to influence your county, or state than the .Fed. If we are ever going to change the size of Government through political ends its going to come from the States asserting autonomy. I still would like to see Schiff, Kokesh, et. al up in DC if for no other reason as to give me a reason to watch C-Span

Nope. I have little hope in the ability to get anything done in the congress, no matter which party controls it. That's the best we can hope for in this political climate: gridlock.

We cannot have a better government until we have a better People. Our country has a philosophical problem, not a political problem. Education is the key to fixing this problem. Until we get a better-educated public, all we can hope for is the most minimal amount of new legislation getting passed.

 

[XxNeXuSxX]

Nope. I have little hope in the ability to get anything done in the congress, no matter which party controls it. That's the best we can hope for in this political climate: gridlock.

We cannot have a better government until we have a better People. Our country has a philosophical problem, not a political problem. Education is the key to fixing this problem. Until we get a better-educated public, all we can hope for is the most minimal amount of new legislation getting passed.

Exactly. Once again I point to Constitutional exams upon registration. Obviously it would be great if they taught ideology vs coalitions in Public schools. But that should be the job of the states' anyway; but as long as the Federal Government controls it, Congress will do whatever it can to get re-elected.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Nope. I have little hope in the ability to get anything done in the congress, no matter which party controls it. That's the best we can hope for in this political climate: gridlock.

We cannot have a better government until we have a better People. Our country has a philosophical problem, not a political problem. Education is the key to fixing this problem. Until we get a better-educated public, all we can hope for is the most minimal amount of new legislation getting passed.

Seems you are at an impasse then, because the Government controls education. Special interests also control media, which is another outlet for mass propaganda. The Government also protects these media interests through legislation.

I agree education is important, but action is more important. America, we need a velvet revolution. Gridlock is fine and all, but it really doesn't accomplish anything. Personally, I would rather have one Ron Paul in congress than fifty-DeMints.

Remember again, this is just my personal opinion. Take it as you will. You are free to do whatever you want.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Exactly. Once again I point to Constitutional exams upon registration. Obviously it would be great if they taught ideology vs coalitions in Public schools. But that should be the job of the states' anyway; but as long as the Federal Government controls it, Congress will do whatever it can to get re-elected.

How does that help anything? Geraldo Rivera is educated on the Constitution yet he is a big Gov shill. Besides, I don't buy into the ends justify the means.

 

[libertarian4321]

Because the libertarians are deranged and unnecessarily taking money and support from a party that has the potential to espouse the same views.

What party might that be? Certainly not the Republican Party. With luck, someday there might be another "Ron Paul" or two holding office as a Republican, but that's a far cry from "the party espousing libertarian views."

The Libertarian Party doesn't "take" money from the Republican Party. I assure you that any and all monies I have sent to the LP over the years would NOT have gone to the Republican Party otherwise.

 

[libertarian4321]

The country has laws which make third parties incredibly uncompetitive. The rational members of the party have left, which is why only lunatics and weirdos remain.

The leaders of your party include the likes of Michael Steele, George W. Bush, Rush Limbaugh, Dick Cheney, Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin, Pat Robertson, Rudy Giuliani, Newt Gingrich, Mark Levine, and John McCain.

While the LP has been invaded by neocons in the past couple of years (when many Libertarians came over the the GOP to help Ron Paul), people like Bob Barr, bad as he is, are rank amateurs when it comes to evil compared to that lot.

So you may want to re-evaluate where the "crazy" is...

The GOP is the obvious choice for people of a limited government persuasion in today's climate.

The GOP is going to bring about limited government? Really?

Wow, you are a dreamer.

Trusting the GOP to bring "limited government" makes about as much sense as trusting Ted Bundy to baby sit your teenage daughter.

 

[libertarian4321]

Are you willing to bet 50$ that when the GOP takes the House and Senate again they will decrease the size of Government? I will bet 50$ that they increase it.

That'd be the easiest money you ever made! Like stealing candy from a baby...

The GOP decreasing the size of government, lol- that's funny.

 

[libertarian4321]

This is how most people behave though. Just like sports they are sad/happy when their team loses/wins. Its the same with voting.

Being associated with the winner is more popular than being associated with the what is right.

Unfortunately, this is true.

 

[teamrican1]

I don't agree with his assessment, but David is a good candidate and I'll send some money his way. The LP is the ONLY option in that race and they actually have a chance because so many people in AZ are sick to death of McCAin. One thing David is forgetting in his criticism is that elections in CT are way more expensive than anywhere else because to get on TV you have to buy ads from the NYC networks, which is the most expensive market in the USA.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

True, but sending it to LP candidates is even worse.

Not really, unless you think party building the GOP is a good thing, and party building the LP is a bad thing.

 

[Aratus]

The 30 million Dr. Ron Paul ran with and on has helped out Rand's recognition factor in a way less
expensive Kentucky. IMOHO should Peter Schiff run again after he has his campaign operation
shifted down several adroit notches to a low key, low gear quietude til the next senate seat
is up for voter scrutiny, he will then be in a situation quite similar to Rand's at FANCY FARM!

 

[libertybrewcity]

Schiff could be the nominee in 2012 BECAUSE of his run this time.


Ain't this kinda ironic a libertarian is saying this? LOL as Nolan, not with him. I don't think I would donate to libertarian unless it was RP or someone who had a chance in hell.

 

[michaelwise]

Bullshit! The awareness that was raised was well worth the effort. You people have to start thinking on a macro-economic(psychological) scale.

 

[senatorpjt]

You have to consider the results in light of the original conditions of the race. If Dodd had not retired and McMahon had not decided to buy the nomination, Peter may very well have won.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

The founder of the frickin' Libertarian party, a party (including both the main party and all the candidates that have ran under its label) that has taken God knows how much money in its nearly forty year existence and put up a gigantic goose egg when it comes to the number of House and Senate seats won, Governorships and of course the White House. A party that peaked in presidential runs thirty years ago in 1980 with a whooping 1.1% of the vote.

Good grief.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Libertarian educational campaigns paved the ground over 30 years, and provided the main activist base for the Paul revolution of 2007 and forward. And I'll take 30 years of LP electoral failure over 80 years of Republican legislative failure anytime. The money knowingly spent to mainly get a liberty message out through a candidacy, and to put a real liberty choice on the ballot, is a different investment than one involving trying to ELECT a candidate. So the LP's successful efforts getting at the liberty side at least represented on the ballot should not be confused with active efforts to get certain candidates in office.

When you buy a bike, you have expectations limited to a bike---but when you buy a car, you expect it to do a lot more things. Nolan suggests that money poured in with a primary intent to elect a candidate, should be related to their likelihood of actually being competitive. I've advocated that our funds, in trying to get liberty candidates elected, should be restricted to competitive races. I thought in foresight that Schiff had a real chance, all elements considered, while Nolan thinks in hindsight Schiff never had a real shot. To each his own, but if you think blowing $33 million without even seeing a primary victory was worth it, well, come back to us after you've contributed to 100 $33 million campaigns without victory. You might become a tad more selective in which candidacies you will support. That's all Nolan is suggesting.

 

[raystone]

Mr. Nolan may still be steaming after the smackdown Schiff put on the Libertarian Party at their own state convention. YouTube - Peter Schiff gives the Libertarian Party some tough medicine "We Need to Influence the GOP!"

 

[FrankRep]

True, but sending it to LP candidates is even worse.

Yep. Can't win elections with 5% of the vote.

 

[Kludge]

Yep. Can't win elections with 5% of the vote.

... Unless there are over 20 candidates!


What we need are... more ineffective political parties!

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Yep. Can't win elections with 5% of the vote.

But the point isn't just to win elections, it's to ACHIEVE something in office that reverses the Total State, and brings us back to a culture of Liberty. GOP candidates have been winning elections since forever---are we more free, as a result? Frankly, it takes a long time to turn the public around on many issues. Third parties have served the thankless task of helping to set the stage for that turnaround, with all those 1-5% campaigns. Let's not demean the LP for doing at least that, to get the word out.

I have known about Ron Paul since 1980, whereas most Paul supporters only heard about him from 2007 onwards. So excuse me when I suggest it's taken a long time to get his ideas to gain wide traction. Meaning, BESIDES winning elections, you also have to win hearts and minds, as in running symbolic or educational campaigns that get you 5% of the vote today, but a bigger victory later. That 'later' may be decades away, not the next election cycle. It's a long game, so appreciate the LP for having had the patience to play it, to make it easier for current liberty candidates to outright win some elections. Just telling you now, before it's 2040.