Libya Was About to Unveil a Hugely Successful Project Built W/Out the International Banks

[BenIsForRon]

Danno, the soldiers defected because they didn't want to fire on their own people. You can't ignore reality just because you have a hard on for conspiracy theories.

And you can't discount an entire revolution and their grievances just because some CIA agents were in their country. If that were the case, then no revolution would be justified, because the CIA is fucking everywhere.

False choice. Look at it another way. If you could go back in time to the Russian revolution, would you advise the people to "do whatever their nice dictator (the czar) said", join the "glorious revolution" or pick option C?

It may be a false choice, but your analogy doesn't necessarily hold up. Egypt just had a referendum on the constitution, and has presidential and parliamentary elections scheduled for later in the year. Ideally, the same thing would occur in Libya after Gaddafi is ousted.

 

[angelatc]

Thank you for establishing a little bit of sanity into this thread. This forum worries me sometimes.

Asserting that the rebels are good guys is not sanity. We have no real idea who they are. And I'm pretty sure they aren't fighting for some liberal Utopian, romanticized definition the good of the common man.

 

[BenIsForRon]

Asserting that the rebels are good guys is not sanity. We have no real idea who they are. And I'm pretty sure they aren't fighting for some liberal Utopian, romanticized definition the good of the common man.

But they certainly weren't the aggressors, and the members of the military who defected did so for righteous reasons. The protests themselves were pro-democracy, much like in Egypt. So while they will probably end up being far from perfect, they are certainly in the right, Gaddafi cemented that when he shot innocent protestors.

 

[Chieppa1]

So, I guess every Libyan or Middle Eastern person I've followed or communicated with through social networking is a CIA op. The date for the first uprising in Libya was common knowledge of anyone following the Egypt situation.

 

[BlackTerrel]

False choice. Look at it another way. If you could go back in time to the Russian revolution, would you advise the people to "do whatever their nice dictator (the czar) said", join the "glorious revolution" or pick option C?

What is option C?

The way I see they live under a brutal dictator. Yeah I don't blame them for rebelling nor do I think Ghadaffi is a hell of a nice guy.

 

[nobody's_hero]

What is option C?

The way I see they live under a brutal dictator. Yeah I don't blame them for rebelling nor do I think Ghadaffi is a hell of a nice guy.

That's what I was getting at. We have reactionaries on here who think if dictator A (let's call him OBusha) is bad, then dictator B must be good.

It's impossible for some folks to fathom that there can be more than one corrupt government at any given time.

It is very likely that the CIA is involved, and it is true that whenever we have such forces playing any sort of role in an uprising, it does spoil the credibility of the movement. I think of when the Ron Paul r3volution had some unsavory characters try to link to the movement (stormfronters) and the media spun it into "Ron Paul's a Racist!!!!" It's a good thing that didn't stick (Teflon Ron?), because it could have bogged down the r3volution.

Yes, it is possible that Americans are not the only people in the world dissatisfied by their own government.

But I'll be clear here: it's their fight to fight, not ours.

 

[jmdrake]

Danno, the soldiers defected because they didn't want to fire on their own people. You can't ignore reality just because you have a hard on for conspiracy theories.

And you can't discount an entire revolution and their grievances just because some CIA agents were in their country. If that were the case, then no revolution would be justified, because the CIA is fucking everywhere.



It may be a false choice, but your analogy doesn't necessarily hold up. Egypt just had a referendum on the constitution, and has presidential and parliamentary elections scheduled for later in the year. Ideally, the same thing would occur in Libya after Gaddafi is ousted.

Ben, I bolded the most import word in your response. Necessarily. It might go one way, it might go the other. That goes for Egypt too. If you've learned nothing else from Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza it's that a like "democracy snake oil" doesn't necessarily equal a better society. And the Soviets had elections initially also. There's a saying. One man, one vote, one time.

 

[jmdrake]

What is option C?

The way I see they live under a brutal dictator. Yeah I don't blame them for rebelling nor do I think Ghadaffi is a hell of a nice guy.

Who's "blaming" them for anything? I wouldn't have blamed the Indians for choosing option "B" in the face of brutal violence from the British Empire instead of choosing Ghandi's option "C". And there's option "D" and likely option "E" as well if you have the imagination and patience to think about it long enough.

 

[jmdrake]

That's what I was getting at. We have reactionaries on here who think if dictator A (let's call him OBusha) is bad, then dictator B must be good.

I don't think you understand what BlackTerrel and I were discussing. I'm not saying Ghadaffi must be "good". Again the czar of Russia was not "good". But then again the Lenin/Stalin cabal that replaced the czar was not "good" either. My realizing that neither options A nor B were good does not mean I think option A was good. That's why I talked about option "C". Seeing option "C" requires deeper thought.

It's impossible for some folks to fathom that there can be more than one corrupt government at any given time.

Quite the opposite. I "see" that while Ghadaffi is corrupt, the forces attempting to overthrow him might also be corrupt and if the people in Lybia aren't careful they might empower an even more corrupt future. Out of the frying pan into the fire.

It is very likely that the CIA is involved, and it is true that whenever we have such forces playing any sort of role in an uprising, it does spoil the credibility of the movement. I think of when the Ron Paul r3volution had some unsavory characters try to link to the movement (stormfronters) and the media spun it into "Ron Paul's a Racist!!!!" It's a good thing that didn't stick (Teflon Ron?), because it could have bogged down the r3volution.

The stormfarters were always bit players. I'm not concerned about bit players in Lybia. I'm concerned about the driving forces. Maybe the driving forces are all pure pro-liberty types. Maybe they're not. Time will tell.

Yes, it is possible that Americans are not the only people in the world dissatisfied by their own government.

But I'll be clear here: it's their fight to fight, not ours.

On that we all agree.

 

[BlackTerrel]

That's what I was getting at. We have reactionaries on here who think if dictator A (let's call him OBusha) is bad, then dictator B must be good.

Except Obama and Bush were never dictators is another point.

Obama got the majority of votes.

Obama can be (and is) criticized all the time.

Try that in Libya.

 

[Qdog]

Here we go... getting drug into another war. I cant wait for my next birthday, I wil be too old for the draft!!!

 

[jmdrake]

Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. Gaddafi was saying a week ago that these rebels were members of Al-Qaeda. He's an idiot.

What is option C?

The way I see they live under a brutal dictator. Yeah I don't blame them for rebelling nor do I think Ghadaffi is a hell of a nice guy.

That's what I was getting at. We have reactionaries on here who think if dictator A (let's call him OBusha) is bad, then dictator B must be good.

It's impossible for some folks to fathom that there can be more than one corrupt government at any given time.

It is very likely that the CIA is involved, and it is true that whenever we have such forces playing any sort of role in an uprising, it does spoil the credibility of the movement. I think of when the Ron Paul r3volution had some unsavory characters try to link to the movement (stormfronters) and the media spun it into "Ron Paul's a Racist!!!!" It's a good thing that didn't stick (Teflon Ron?), because it could have bogged down the r3volution.

Yes, it is possible that Americans are not the only people in the world dissatisfied by their own government.

But I'll be clear here: it's their fight to fight, not ours.

So now that the mainstream media has reported that Ghadafi was right and Al Qaeda was/is leading the uprising, are the three of you willing to admit that Dannno and I are right?

See:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/30/flickers-al-qaeda-libya-wouldnt-new-development/

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-25/...n-state-television-noman-benotman?_s=PM:WORLD

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/geoffr...mann-should-we-show-compassion-al-qaeda-libya

Note: Ghadafi still sucks. But the Libyans should have picked option C.

 

[dannno]

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-25/...n-state-television-noman-benotman?_s=PM:WORLD

Holy crap, Gadhaffi said that the rebels were being drugged to make them want to revolt!! Propaganda + drugs sounds like some MKUltra shit, I would not be the LEAST bit surprised.. and anybody who thinks that they wouldn't do this has no credibility imo..

 

[BenIsForRon]

Holy crap, Gadhaffi said that the rebels were being drugged to make them want to revolt!! Propaganda + drugs sounds like some MKUltra shit, I would not be the LEAST bit surprised.. and anybody who thinks that they wouldn't do this has no credibility imo..

Dude, what drug is going to make someone pick up arms and take part in a rebellion?

Danno, you have officially lost your mind.

So now that the mainstream media has reported that Ghadafi was right and Al Qaeda was/is leading the uprising, are the three of you willing to admit that Dannno and I are right?

None of those articles say Al Qaeda is leading the uprising, unless you think "flickers of Al Qaeda" means they're leading.

 

[libertyjam]

Look up "Orange Sunshine". Developed, manufactured, and distributed by your friendly CIA and MKUltra.

 

[ds21089]

Dude, what drug is going to make someone pick up arms and take part in a rebellion?

http://michael-robinett.com/declass/c000.htm If you take the time to research MK-ultra, you will find it's very real. If you don't believe that the government has certain studies which aren't shown in the media, you are very misinformed. HAARP is another project which many scientists have proven is completely possible with our current technology. Remember the government controls the media.... Some people think that Loughner's shooting in AZ was because of this same test. People whom knew him said he was completely normal. He never showed any signs whatsoever of being ill in any way until recently before the shooting.

"Mk Ultra was a code name declassified in the 1970's Church Committee and other lawsuits brought against the government where the public was informed that thousands of people, patients from hospitals, mental health patients, prisoners in the... justice system, and even public citizens were selected for testing without their consent. Testing was conducted int he 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. Some claim they still go on today and provide evidence. The testing includes torture, drugs and exotic hypnosis experiments in an effort to explore the mind, propaganda and other related patterns. One sub department of the operation included a group of lunatic scientists who were looking to create an assassins program, to see if it was possible to kidnap someone, say an enemy in a country, conduct hypnosis and other techniques learned in Mk Ultra, and send them back to the country with a plan to assassinate their leaders. That plan is what scares people most. MK Ultra was carried out by the CIA illegally and in the 1970s, hundreds of patients sued the federal government for damages, and the government settled and paid millions of dollars.

Now here is the really trippy, scary info. Some of these patients where MK Ultra was used include Ted Kazinsky (the unabpmber), mark David Chapman (the man who shot Lennon), Sirhan Sirhan (the man who shot Bobby Kennedy) and even Lee Harvey Oswald is rumored to have attended a base in japan before heading to Russia where MK Ultra experiments were taking place. David Ferrie, Oswalds boss for a long period of time, is said to have been an MK Ultra specialist and specialized in hypnosis and believe it or not, sexual molestation to mess with his patients heads. David Ferrie was a convicted child predator who left the Catholic Church to train Black Operations hitmen for the invasion of Cuba. David Ferrie taught the Louisiana Civial Air Patrol where both Lee Harvey Oswald and Barry Seal joined as 15 year old children. Barry Seal became the primary operative in Iran-Contra who ran drugs for the CIA and was an active contract hitman, Oswlad was accused of killing John F Kennedy. David Ferrie was murdered, made to look like a suicide, the night before his testimony in a trial Jim Garrison brought against the CIA where he accused Ferrie and others of using Oswald as a patsy... "

 

[nobody's_hero]

So now that the mainstream media has reported that Ghadafi was right and Al Qaeda was/is leading the uprising, are the three of you willing to admit that Dannno and I are right?

Right about what?

Two bad men are fighting each other. Now a third unsavory party (al-Qaida) is fighting with the first two.

That was my point.

1. There is more than one bad person in the world, and sometimes they fight with each other.

2. It is not necessary to take sides in such a conflict.

 

[BenIsForRon]

LSD is not a mind control drug. Just because the CIA tried to use it as one doesn't mean it works. They quickly abandoned it because they realized that it didn't work that way.

Besides, how in the hell could the CIA hypnotize thousands of rebels? You guys need to use your heads a little bit.

 

[dannno]

Dude, what drug is going to make someone pick up arms and take part in a rebellion?

You have some reading comprehension skills you need to improve on.

Danno, you have officially lost your mind.

No, you have reading comprehension skills to brush up on. I NEVER said that a drug alone would make people pick up arms and revolt.. although Jacob's Ladder, likely a fiction piece, says otherwise, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

None of those articles say Al Qaeda is leading the uprising, unless you think "flickers of Al Qaeda" means they're leading.

THE article YOU read said "flickers of Al Qaeda" and that in and of itself is propaganda. The original articles WE posted BEFORE this was an issue in the US MSM stated something different.

"Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html


Of course you along with the vast majority of the American public insist on remaining ignorant regarding what Al Qaeda actually is, so this information isn't as useful to you.

 

[dannno]

LSD is not a mind control drug. Just because the CIA tried to use it as one doesn't mean it works. They quickly abandoned it because they realized that it didn't work that way.

You know, it amazes me that you trust the same government that lied to you about MKUltra in the first place, when it was found out, they came clean with as much as they needed to, and then you believe everything they say about the program and it's future. What is the definition of insanity? You keep believing people who are fucking LYING to you!! Why do you think they have any credibility what-so-ever? Why do you keep believing them?

Besides, how in the hell could the CIA hypnotize thousands of rebels? You guys need to use your heads a little bit.

Probably the same way as they did Iran in 1952, or very similar. Why do you refuse to remember the past and what has been done in the past?