Libertarians Move In To Make A Small N.H. Town Even Smaller

[Tod]

Turmoil in Grafton as the Free Staters are starting to have influence in the town, breeding resentment from the locals who are not into freedom so much.

http://www.npr.org/2014/03/09/288069880/libertarians-move-in-to-make-a-small-n-h-town-even-smaller

 

[aGameOfThrones]

The comments... they burns us.

 

[RM918]

The comments... they burns us.

Yeah, comment sections frequently make me lose my faith in humanity.

 

[Cabal]

Question: If a focused libertarian effort within a relatively small town cannot be successful through the established legal means available, how can we expect these same sorts of established legal means to lead to success on an exponentially larger, national scale?

I believe Molyneux has offered this challenge in the past--if it is possible we can 'infiltrate' the establishment and affect change by way of the political process, why not prove this is possible on a smaller scale first, and then go from there? Though, admittedly, he tends to suggest we change the mafia into a charitable organization, so this situation is somewhat different, but perhaps still somewhat applicable.

 

[69360]

The comments... they burns us.

Honestly the commenters have valid point. They have lived there for generations and free staters "from away" moved in and want to change the way things have always been. You can hardly blame them for being upset. A little respect for the way things are would go a long way for the free staters. I mean they liked NH so much they moved there, why change it?

I speak from experience in New England. I moved to Maine last year. No matter how long I live here I will always be "from away" and so will my kids. You aren't considered a Mainer unless your grandparents were born here. I think the saying is "a cat can have kittens in the oven, doesn't make them biscuits". I like the way life is where I live, so I don't rock the boat much. Most people don't notice I'm not a native.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Honestly the commenters have valid point. They have lived there for generations and free staters "from away" moved in and want to change the way things have always been. You can hardly blame them for being upset. A little respect for the way things are would go a long way for the free staters. I mean they liked NH so much they moved there, why change it?

I speak from experience in New England. I moved to Maine last year. No matter how long I live here I will always be "from away" and so will my kids. You aren't considered a Mainer unless your grandparents were born here. I think the saying is "a cat can have kittens in the oven, doesn't make them biscuits". I like the way life is where I live, so I don't rock the boat much. Most people don't notice I'm not a native.

You make good points. Though, Maine (a dying state) isn't NH when most people (including powerful political figures) aren't originally from here.

NPR is a statist media outlet. In fact, it is the most popular media source in the nation for statists. How long have the free staters lived there? How long have the anti-liberty folks moved there? I don't know. I do know that less than 40% of adults living in NH were born in NH. For example, 1 of the Grafton state reps was born in England. The guy the got arrested at the meeting is a from Grafton. He is also a local official. Some of the locals that don't want to keep Grafton Grafton, changed the rules during the meeting. They did it because they goal is to change Grafton to make it into a more big-government place. Some of the locals don't like that so they voted against that. In NH, they small town meetings are a sport for some people. It's not that unlike the British House of Commons.

But yeah, both sides were wrong in the tactics and approach. I'm not upset that a statist family is thinking of leaving Grafton because it is so hard for them to increase the size of government with liberty activists around.

 

[angelatc]

I'm not upset that a statist family is thinking of leaving Grafton because it is so hard for them to increase the size of government with liberty activists around.

Ha ha! I was wondering how much her house would cost.

 

[Barrex]

I hate. There is all this talk about emotinos and yada yada yada... What are the issues they dont agree on? They mention UN and school. Is that it? It is like sending reporter to vidoetape nuclear explosion and reporter videotapes only people talking about it. Annoying.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Color me unsurprised. The same shit went down in VT and CA when the hippies moved in large numbers to those states. The same thing is happening in Florida with New England transplants. Shit changes. If you don't like it, move. You're not entitled to anything else than the property you rightly own, and the liberties endowed by our humanity. I say this, even though I can be a bit bitter about New Englanders moving to Florida, but hey at least Free Staters aren't that much different than supposed values of NH unlike New Yorkers who come to Florida...

It should be interesting when the ticker hits 20k...

 

[Tod]

Ha ha! I was wondering how much her house would cost.

It looks too big for my taste/needs/budget. Besides, it is on the main drag and that would be a drag.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Color me unsurprised. The same shit went down in VT and CA when the hippies moved in large numbers to those states. The same thing is happening in Florida with New England transplants. Shit changes. If you don't like it, move. You're not entitled to anything else than the property you rightly own, and the liberties endowed by our humanity. I say this, even though I can be a bit bitter about New Englanders moving to Florida, but hey at least Free Staters aren't that much different than supposed values of NH unlike New Yorkers who come to Florida...

Don't be surprised if the moving of folks from NH to FL/NC picks up, the more the liberty activists are known in NH There are plenty of people that love almost everything about New England except the cold. They just need a polite nudge in the southern direction

 

[Tod]

Don't be surprised if the moving of folks from NH to FL/NC picks up, the more the liberty activists are known in NH There are plenty of people that love almost everything about New England except the cold. They just need a polite nudge in the southern direction

New Hampshire needs more coastline. And coastal islands. New Hampshire should take over Maine.

 

[Keith and stuff]

New Hampshire needs more coastline. And coastal islands. New Hampshire should take over Maine.

NH has coast line and several islands. It is known for it's lakes. But yeah, 2 towns north of NH (into ME) there is York with 1 of the most popular beaches in Maine and another beach with free parking. Just 45 minutes north of NH is Old Orchard Beach, Maine's most famous and popular beach. So while it's not technically in NH, it's closer to quite a bit of the NH population than it is to many of the folks in ME.

Just south of Seabrook Beach in NH is Salisbury Beach in MA. Crane Beach, MA is only 35 minutes south of Seabrook, NH.

About the NH beaches on the ocean, they are known as the cleanest beaches in the United States, with 2 of it's ocean beaches having the amazing level of 5 out of 5 stars! http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/06/26/195896606/a-look-at-the-nastiest-and-cleanest-u-s-beaches

New Hampshire also has many lakes with beaches. In fact, I think there might even be a pond in Grafton, NH with a beach. I might have even swam there before

 

[fr33]

I mean they liked NH so much they moved there, why change it?

I'm not an FSP member but my understanding is that they (the FSP) are moving to NH specifically to change it.

 

[69360]

New Hampshire needs more coastline. And coastal islands. New Hampshire should take over Maine.

NH has coast line and several islands. It is known for it's lakes. But yeah, 2 towns north of NH (into ME) there is York with 1 of the most popular beaches in Maine and another beach with free parking. Just 45 minutes north of NH is Old Orchard Beach, Maine's most famous and popular beach. So while it's not technically in NH, it's closer to quite a bit of the NH population than it is to many of the folks in ME.

Just south of Seabrook Beach in NH is Salisbury Beach in MA. Crane Beach, MA is only 35 minutes south of Seabrook, NH.

About the NH beaches on the ocean, they are known as the cleanest beaches in the United States, with 2 of it's ocean beaches having the amazing level of 5 out of 5 stars! http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/06/26/195896606/a-look-at-the-nastiest-and-cleanest-u-s-beaches

New Hampshire also has many lakes with beaches. In fact, I think there might even be a pond in Grafton, NH with a beach. I might have even swam there before

There is what maybe 10 miles of ocean front in NH vs. hundreds in Maine? That is what made me choose Maine over NH. I wanted to live on the coast and I couldn't afford the NH coast. I do like NH, I'll be there later today actually.

I'm not an FSP member but my understanding is that they (the FSP) are moving to NH specifically to change it.

Well yeah, if a group of people moved into your town and wanted to change the way things always have been, wouldn't you be pissed too?

Here in Maine the locals all get pissed off when out of state summer people buy up the waterfront and close off the beaches that the previous owners used to let the public use. It happens fairly often, I think that is how the people in Grafton feel about the free staters.

 

[fisharmor]

I hate. There is all this talk about emotinos and yada yada yada... What are the issues they dont agree on? They mention UN and school. Is that it? It is like sending reporter to vidoetape nuclear explosion and reporter videotapes only people talking about it. Annoying.

Now multiply your experience by about a bajillion and you'll get an idea what our Ukraine coverage has been like.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Well yeah, if a group of people moved into your town and wanted to change the way things always have been, wouldn't you be pissed too?

It depends. That's what the upset people in Grafton are complaining about. They are trying to change the government by making it large and liberty activists are working against those changes. The truth is people run for office all over the nation. The people running for office usually run because they want to change things, by growing the size of government. These uppity folks in Grafton are made that there are other people actually trying to stop the grow and shockingly, do what 2/3s of people suggestion they might actually support, reduce the size of the government. That has the evil statists freaking out and mad as hell. How dare someone stand up for what is right! How dare someone try to do the right thing!

Here in Maine the locals all get pissed off when out of state summer people buy up the waterfront and close off the beaches that the previous owners used to let the public use.

That actually annoys me too. When I used to live in a beach community in NH, I'd go to the York Cliff Walk in Maine. It was a great walk with a nice view, a short drive from the house I lived in. Sadly, I heard people exercised their property rights and closed down the Cliff Walk since I left the beach town. I'm not upset because people have the right to exercise their rights, but I feel part of what made York special is now lost.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Well yeah, if a group of people moved into your town and wanted to change the way things always have been, wouldn't you be pissed too?

Here in Maine the locals all get pissed off when out of state summer people buy up the waterfront and close off the beaches that the previous owners used to let the public use. It happens fairly often, I think that is how the people in Grafton feel about the free staters.

I wish a group of people would suddenly move here with the intention of establishing a reasonable, voluntary government. I suppose the people here already who benefit from what we have (plunderism) might be a little upset though. If you read the comments that was a lot of their concerns... they were upset because "libertarians" weren't "team players." (i.e that libertarians didn't wish to be extracted from to pay for what other people wanted. Had those people asked respectfully, and had the services been voluntary and necessary, I think most people would be reasonable. That is not how they think, though. They think 50.1% have legal authority to extort the minority. They want to use the government to take for their special interests. I find their whiny tantrums comical. Reminds me of kids at the store when their parents don't succumb to buying them candy)

 

[Cabal]

Well yeah, if a group of people moved into your town and wanted to change the way things always have been, wouldn't you be pissed too?

I don't own any towns, so I can't really relate. How many towns do you own?

 

[donnay]

There is what maybe 10 miles of ocean front in NH vs. hundreds in Maine? That is what made me choose Maine over NH. I wanted to live on the coast and I couldn't afford the NH coast. I do like NH, I'll be there later today actually.



Well yeah, if a group of people moved into your town and wanted to change the way things always have been, wouldn't you be pissed too?

Here in Maine the locals all get pissed off when out of state summer people buy up the waterfront and close off the beaches that the previous owners used to let the public use. It happens fairly often, I think that is how the people in Grafton feel about the free staters.

Yeah but that is because most of the out-of-towners are from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (formerly known as Taxachusetts). I don't blame Mainers for getting pissed, they come in and want to take a rural setting and make it urban--municipal water and sewage, street lights and paved roads which create higher taxation. The taxes in Maine are high enough. Most of the southern portion of Maine pay taxes to support the northern portion of Maine. Maine is becoming an elite playground. The motto: Vacationland. Sooner or later the native Mainers will see that motto as; Vacate land.