Libertarians in it for the long haul

[hrdman2luv]

All this talk about writing in Ron Paul on the ballot is very patriotic. We all know he would be the best president in our time. We also know that Ron Paul has earned our votes. And has earned much more than just our votes.

But, Ron Paul can't win. And after this election, he'll be retiring. Though I'm sure he'll stay active with the CFL, and will continue to support the Liberty movement, TeaParty and any other grassroots organizations that exposes and tries to change DC.

The Libertarian party, isn't going anywhere either. They are already established. So far, that are on almost all the state ballots. (I've heard they're having problems getting in a few states).....But, the Libertarians will be around the next election cycle, and the next and the next and the next. And they will continue to lose elections year after year after year, until they finally get enough support.

If we stay stuck on Ron Paul, I believe we are doing him a dis-service. It seems like Ron Paul is trying to hand us the batton. But some just keep giving it back to him because they don't REALLY want to run with it.

Seriously folks, is it going to take Ron Paul endorsing Johnson for some to know which direction to go?

You know, there is a way to continue to beat the GOP, stay affiliated with the GOP and support the Libertarian Party at the same time. "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" sort of speak.

One thing about it, we're all going to do what we think is best. And I'm no one to tell anyone what they should do. That's the thing about freedom that I respect whole heartedly. I'm just saying, that if we don't unite behind the Libertarian Party, they aren't going to unite behind us. Which will keep us divided. Which is exactly how the RNC and the DNC continue to stay in power.

For that matter, we could unite with the willing OW's, TeaParty, and Libertarian party on a basic set of principles. Our differences could be set aside long enough to atleast start making a showing in some congressional seats. I have no doubt that the GOP liberty candidiates would have no problem switching to the Libertarian party once we start getting at least a couple in congress & state legislatures.

The bottom line is, the Libertarian Party will always be here. Ron Paul won't.

 

[CaptUSA]

Weird that you would post this in Ron Paul Grassroots. Ron Paul is a republican.

"If we stay stuck on Ron Paul??!!"

Anyway, the problem with the Libertarian party is not a lack of support, it's the infighting. I was a registered Libertarian until late last year when I switch to the GOP for Ron Paul so I'm not throwing stones. The people in the LP are constantly trying to get other people to join their side, then they get angry when it doesn't happen, then the start bickering and name-calling.

 

[American Idol]

The bottom line is, the Libertarian Party will always be here. Ron Paul won't.

Everyone now knows the name Ron Paul. No libertarian has ever been so popular. Many people barely even know the LP even exists. This is the LP's one big chance to give itself a boost and maybe even get into the debates.

Otherwise, the LP will continue to wallow in infighting and 1% annually in the polls. In other words: irrelevance.

Do you want to be irrelevant forever, LP?

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

For 40+ years the LP has been running candidates at the state and federal level, and failing miserably each and every time. If I had a nickel for every time that I heard this same pitch from LP people over the years, I would be a wealthy man.

The results speak for themselves: Number of LP candidates elected to state and federal offices - ZERO. Number of libertarian Republicans elected to state and federal offices - HUNDREDS (if not more).

Years ago, if I did not like the Republican that was on the ballot, I would vote for the LP candidate. However, in recent years I have decided that by doing so I was only encouraging them to continue in their delusion, so I instead leave that spot on the ballot blank.

My suggestion is instead of wallowing away in obscurity, run for office as a Republican. Your chances of getting elected to office are infinitly better as history has proven. Massie, Amash, Bentivolio, Rand, Hightower, etc -- all of these, and others, have shown us the path to success. We would do well to follow their examples.

 

[Origanalist]

Weird that you would post this in Ron Paul Grassroots. Ron Paul is a republican.

"If we stay stuck on Ron Paul??!!"

Anyway, the problem with the Libertarian party is not a lack of support, it's the infighting. I was a registered Libertarian until late last year when I switch to the GOP for Ron Paul so I'm not throwing stones. The people in the LP are constantly trying to get other people to join their side, then they get angry when it doesn't happen, then the start bickering and name-calling.

Sounds familiar.

 

[CaptUSA]

Sounds familiar.

Yes. It's the same problem the liberty movement in its entirety experiences. It's really a shame because we are supposed to be the ones who know better.

It's like herding cats. We are all individuals. And we KNOW it. This makes each one of us go our own way. But then we start to fall into the trap of believing that every one of us should follow the same path. Huh? We don't want anyone telling us what to do, but then we want everyone else to do what we want them to do?! So then we try to use persuasion, then arguing, then belittlement, then name-calling, then hatred...

Instead of trying to herd the cats we have, I think it may be wise to get more cats. Break more people off from the collectives of which they have allowed themselves to become a part. In my opinion, this is the way liberty reigns. Follow the path you deem most reasonable, teach other people about your path, and stop right there. If they choose your path, great. If they choose another path to liberty, wish them well and hope their's works. But when they start to infringe upon your liberty, raise holy hell! We will all join back at that front!

 

[Peace&Freedom]

But the people in the GOP are also constantly trying to get other liberty people to join their side, then they get angry when it doesn't happen, then the start bickering and name-calling. It's unproductive to do this either way.

Instead of insulting the only thoroughgoing Liberty party for the umpteenth time due to its 'failure,' while ignoring the even larger failures of the GOP for the umpteenth time, why can't we all just get along? The real reason the LP has 'failed' is identical to the real reason why the Paul campaigns have failed---the political establishment has consistently rigged the process and monkey wrenched the efforts of liberty people, be they inside the major party or outside. The GOP didn't invent the tactics used on Paul, they just adapted them from how they've treated the LP (and CP, by the way).

The sooner activists understand the game is to keep us 'irrelevant' whether inside or outside the major parties, we can stop the divisive finger pointing and work to develop our movement as a force independent of party structures, major or minor. Stop talking about herding cats. The grassroots IS the herd, and we aren't astray. We don't need top-down herding from either a GOP or LP leadership. Liberty is a self-organizing concept and reality---so let us herd ourselves.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Weird that you would post this in Ron Paul Grassroots. Ron Paul is a republican.

"If we stay stuck on Ron Paul??!!"

Anyway, the problem with the Libertarian party is not a lack of support, it's the infighting. I was a registered Libertarian until late last year when I switch to the GOP for Ron Paul so I'm not throwing stones. The people in the LP are constantly trying to get other people to join their side, then they get angry when it doesn't happen, then the start bickering and name-calling.

And a lifetime member of the LP.

 

[hrdman2luv]

And a lifetime member of the LP.

Exactly........ BTW, the only reason Ron Paul didn't endorse the LP candidate last time, was because Barr was a RINO...... At least his record showed him to be one. Barr thought he was too good for Ron Paul and us. And the LP suffered severely. This time, Johnson isn't making the same mistake. Why? Because Johnson agree's with Ron Paul.. Johnson isn't just siding with Ron Paul to get the support. He actually does agree with Ron Paul and us. His record as governor proves this.

I understand the LP has it's flaws, but dang it folks, those flaws are an ant hill, compared to the RNC mountain. Especially now with the rules changes.
The LP supports Ron Paul and the Liberty movement. Why can't we support them for supporting us?

 

[kathy88]

Grassroots Central? Hardly at this point in time. Perhaps down the road.

 

[truthspeaker]

Yes. It's the same problem the liberty movement in its entirety experiences. It's really a shame because we are supposed to be the ones who know better.

It's like herding cats. We are all individuals. And we KNOW it. This makes each one of us go our own way. But then we start to fall into the trap of believing that every one of us should follow the same path. Huh? We don't want anyone telling us what to do, but then we want everyone else to do what we want them to do?! So then we try to use persuasion, then arguing, then belittlement, then name-calling, then hatred...

Instead of trying to herd the cats we have, I think it may be wise to get more cats. Break more people off from the collectives of which they have allowed themselves to become a part. In my opinion, this is the way liberty reigns. Follow the path you deem most reasonable, teach other people about your path, and stop right there. If they choose your path, great. If they choose another path to liberty, wish them well and hope their's works. But when they start to infringe upon your liberty, raise holy hell! We will all join back at that front!

Which reminds me--how many RP supporters are cat-people?

I admit, I am.

 

[truthspeaker]

Exactly........ BTW, the only reason Ron Paul didn't endorse the LP candidate last time, was because Barr was a RINO...... At least his record showed him to be one. Barr thought he was too good for Ron Paul and us. And the LP suffered severely. This time, Johnson isn't making the same mistake. Why? Because Johnson agree's with Ron Paul.. Johnson isn't just siding with Ron Paul to get the support. He actually does agree with Ron Paul and us. His record as governor proves this.

I understand the LP has it's flaws, but dang it folks, those flaws are an ant hill, compared to the RNC mountain. Especially now with the rules changes.
The LP supports Ron Paul and the Liberty movement. Why can't we support them for supporting us?

start rant:

The biggest flaw of the LP is choosing NOT to work with the CP when they had a chance. /end rant

On another note: Is it against the law for two different parties to nominate the same candidate? I was thinking it was a way to get outside of the two party restrictions. That way, you can still vote for your person but also get the party the opportunity to remain on the ballot.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Okay, here goes:
(are there any LP members willing to get this to Gary and the Chairman, with their own preface?)

Dear Libertarian Party Members,

There has been a lot of noise about Ron Paul lately. And the most recent has been about Ron becoming the VP or Presidential candidate for the LP. We, Ron Paul supporters, believe in the man, and many, if not most, of you do too.

We have no right, as you already know, to barge in and take over your party. We just don't. All of you have taken your time and resources to bring your party to the point it is at. You have voted, you have given your voice for the available candidates. It is done.

I can't speak for all of the Ron Paul supporters, but I believe that I do speak in a manner that is acceptable to many of them in this plea.

Most of you have been following what has happened to Paul supporters at county conventions, state conventions and the RNC. The county and state conventions showed us how petty and ruthless individuals can be to hold on to their entrenched positions. But what occured at the RNC was atrocious malfeasance. It was, in your face, "we can do whatever we please". Rules were created on the fly to prevent the honest work of countless numbers of persons from succeeding.

Our country is at stake. You know this as well as I, and some of you, perhaps more so. I can see no recourse for us, as individuals, but to gather our persons together as a unit to prevent what we all know in our hearts to be heading our way, whether it is Obama or Romney at the head of our country. Obama's record is known, and if re-elected has nothing, but historical illusions, to lose. Romney has a controverial past as governor, but a more menacing present, when taking into account what he performed with the RNC. If that is any indication as to what his performance would be as president, I don't want any of it.

I'm asking you to consider, for all of our sakes, the possibility of Ron Paul running on the Libertarian ticket for President. I'm asking for your permission, your vote at this late date, if it is possible. And I'm asking even more, for all of you to request that this be done to convince Ron Paul to run.

If we look at it logically, Ron Paul polls well, he could probably poll well enough to get into the debates with Obama and Romney. This would also mean the Libertarian Party Vice Presidential candidate would be in the Vice Presidential debates. Yes, if the RNC is any indication, they may try to change the rules for that also. But we know, and so does Gary, that he does not poll well enough to get into the debates. We need to get into the debates.

With three candidates running, we only need to split the vote and get 34% to win if Obama and Romney are tied for the rest. It can be done. I believe there is also a way that Ron can get matching funds which would help greatly. We may not get into every state, but what states we do get ballot on we, together, can win.

Sincerely,
A supporter of Liberty,
Clyde F. Coulter, Jr.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Any takers or input on my post above ^^^ ?

 

[American Idol]

Any takers or input on my post above ^^^ ?

Great letter! Sums it up well.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

The letter is a good one, but the problem is with the state election bureaucracies at this point in the election calendar. The LP NY Chair estimated to me that most of the deadlines have passed that would make a substitution legal. The Republican leadership (already actively trying to kick the LP off the ballot in several states) would no doubt raise legal challenges across the country over this. I think it's too late.

 

[FindLiberty]

...Ron Paul is a republican....
...I was a registered Libertarian until late last year when I switch to the GOP for Ron Paul so I'm not throwing stones. The people in the LP are constantly trying to get other people to join their side, then they get angry when it doesn't happen, then the start bickering and name-calling.

I think the LP's VP slot could be filled ASAP if the Judge offered to step
down.... and be replaced by Ron Paul. LP POTUS changes are not
possible at this late date in the process.

 

[Ivash]

But the people in the GOP are also constantly trying to get other liberty people to join their side, then they get angry when it doesn't happen, then the start bickering and name-calling. It's unproductive to do this either way.

Instead of insulting the only thoroughgoing Liberty party for the umpteenth time due to its 'failure,' while ignoring the even larger failures of the GOP for the umpteenth time, why can't we all just get along? The real reason the LP has 'failed' is identical to the real reason why the Paul campaigns have failed---the political establishment has consistently rigged the process and monkey wrenched the efforts of liberty people, be they inside the major party or outside. The GOP didn't invent the tactics used on Paul, they just adapted them from how they've treated the LP (and CP, by the way).

The sooner activists understand the game is to keep us 'irrelevant' whether inside or outside the major parties, we can stop the divisive finger pointing and work to develop our movement as a force independent of party structures, major or minor. Stop talking about herding cats. The grassroots IS the herd, and we aren't astray. We don't need top-down herding from either a GOP or LP leadership. Liberty is a self-organizing concept and reality---so let us herd ourselves.

The main reason why third parties are irrelevant is the 'first-past-the-post' voting system. If voting was proportional it would make a lot more sense to vote for a third party.

 

[hrdman2luv]

Ron Paul said he wasn't running as a 3rd party candidate. So why can't we move onto plan "B"..........

BTW, why can't we all agree on a plan "B".

 

[cajuncocoa]

Ron Paul said he wasn't running as a 3rd party candidate. So why can't we move onto plan "B"..........

BTW, why can't we all agree on a plan "B".

I think the best we can do is agree that we should all have a "Plan B"...expecting a group of liberty-minded individuals to come to consensus on what that "Plan B" should be may be too much to ask!