Libertarian party files motions to remove Bob Barr as their nominee

[richiep]

being mad at barr for not doing something he'd say he was going to do and tolerate his staff calling paul a thief without explanation, bashing his supporters for no reason, and ranting about bush showing true leadership after 9/11 has nothing to do with the church of ron paul. if he can't even show leadership on the campaign trail, i'm not going to trust him to show leadership while president.

As for the Bush and 9-11 comment, you must be from the "forget the twice a day thing, a broken clock is never right" group! As much as I think Busk is the worst of the worst, there was that one time he acted like a President should, and it was for those few moments there at that site. I admit, being I dislike the guy so much its hard even for me to admit that, but if I'm to be honest I have to admit it. It was one of those twice a day moments. But there is a bigger issue and its one of sales. One of the reasons the LP nominated Barr, hell the only reason, was to move some liberty minded people over to our side. We've been to small of a group for far too long, and to get bigger we have to convert people. That message was meant to reach out to some of those people.

The problem is, you guys are looking at Barr the way we all tend to look at Bush, in your mind Barr can not do anything right. Guys like you do nothing but question his "vonversion" his motives and his every word. When he says the Republican Party is corrupt, you still call him a neo-con, just one who's so clever we just can;t undertsnad how he;'s out here to destroy us.

No, the people out to destroy this movement are the Republicans who are backing bibleboy, and now have taken over the C4L. That's why both of those organizations are bent on taking out Barr. Its just that simple. So you are either one of them, or too closed minded to see it.

 

[voytechs]

Cool.

 

[mitty]

As for the Bush and 9-11 comment, you must be from the "forget the twice a day thing, a broken clock is never right" group! As much as I think Busk is the worst of the worst, there was that one time he acted like a President should, and it was for those few moments there at that site. I admit, being I dislike the guy so much its hard even for me to admit that, but if I'm to be honest I have to admit it. It was one of those twice a day moments. But there is a bigger issue and its one of sales. One of the reasons the LP nominated Barr, hell the only reason, was to move some liberty minded people over to our side. We've been to small of a group for far too long, and to get bigger we have to convert people. That message was meant to reach out to some of those people.

The problem is, you guys are looking at Barr the way we all tend to look at Bush, in your mind Barr can not do anything right. Guys like you do nothing but question his "vonversion" his motives and his every word. When he says the Republican Party is corrupt, you still call him a neo-con, just one who's so clever we just can;t undertsnad how he;'s out here to destroy us.

No, the people out to destroy this movement are the Republicans who are backing bibleboy, and now have taken over the C4L. That's why both of those organizations are bent on taking out Barr. Its just that simple. So you are either one of them, or too closed minded to see it.

david franke said it best:

"President Bush used 9/11 as a pretext for gutting our Constitution and Bill of Rights, and for involving the U.S. in an unconstitutional war against a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11—and Russ Verney praises him for “incredible leadership” on 9/11?

Verney thinks the choreographed fire truck speech demonstrated “incredible leadership” in a time of crisis—but he forgets to mention President Bush’s incredible leadership in that Florida classroom as the events were actually taking place on 9/11."

real leadership. i can see why you're so anxious to defend someone like bob barr. you can easily defend someone like bush when he doesn't deserve it.

 

[richiep]

david franke said it best:

"President Bush used 9/11 as a pretext for gutting our Constitution and Bill of Rights, and for involving the U.S. in an unconstitutional war against a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11—and Russ Verney praises him for “incredible leadership” on 9/11?

Verney thinks the choreographed fire truck speech demonstrated “incredible leadership” in a time of crisis—but he forgets to mention President Bush’s incredible leadership in that Florida classroom as the events were actually taking place on 9/11."

real leadership. i can see why you're so anxious to defend someone like bob barr. you can easily defend someone like bush when he doesn't deserve it.

I'm certainly not just defending Barr or Bush just for the sake of defending him. I just will not bash the intent of the Press Release. You on the other hand, have started with a dislike and any and all things Barr. So to you, the campaign can do no right. Its the same thing with Bush, to all of us as we all feel the same way about Bush (OK well I'm asssuming we all feel the same way about him, that is we can't stand him and think he is the worst of the worst) it is natural for us to look at everything he does with disdain.

But if we were to be honest, it was the one time he acted like a President should have acted. Again, we all know what he did before and after and how horrible he has been as a President. That's why I said it was like the broken clock that was right twice a day. Now if Paul, Barr, you, or me were President at that moment, I would hope that we would have acted as Presidential at that moment.

What Barr is trying to do is EXACTY what he was nominated to do, to reach out to people beyond our own base. You chastise him for not showing up at an event which was to tell people to vote for a socialist just to break the two party mindset. Well Barr said that isn't going to work and I agree.

What will work is meeting these people where they are - they believe in the likes of Bush, for crying out loud, 40 somewhat percent are still going to vote for that piece of shit McCain! Barr wants to reach those people and break them away from thinking that way. Telling them its OK to vote for a someone who doesn't pretend to not be a socialist is NOT the way to do it. Nor will bashing Bush at ever turn, including the one time he did the right thing.

Maybe you should try and look at it a different way... suppose you were trying to reach out to people who dislike liberty - really dislike it. Your task is to get them to think about liberty and how it would be good for them. Do you a) argue with them and tell them they are wrong. Or b) try to find one area of their life where liberty has worked for them in a way, then start with a positive area of agreement and build on that? To put that in other words, if you want to free people's minds from thinking they have to vote for McSame, do you endlessly bash Bush, or do you met them showing the one time Bush acted like President, then after that area of agreement, start to move them toward seeing the truth of how he is not a good leader.

 

[NewFederalist]

It looks like nobody on the LNC would make the motion to remove him so I believe this is now moot.

 

[TastyWheat]

being mad at barr for not doing something he'd say he was going to do and tolerate his staff calling paul a thief without explanation, bashing his supporters for no reason, and ranting about bush showing true leadership after 9/11 has nothing to do with the church of ron paul. if he can't even show leadership on the campaign trail, i'm not going to trust him to show leadership while president.

I agree Barr was foolish in skipping the press conference but that's a minor fault in my opinion. He also never said anything positive about Bush or bad about Ron Paul, that was his staff. If you don't like the company he keeps then don't vote for him, simple as that. I don't think he's made any serious ethics violations, some bad staff picks but nothing more.

 

[RickyJ]

"I'm not interested in third parties getting the most possible votes," Barr told reporters. "I'm interested in Bob Barr as the nominee for the Libertarian Party getting the most possible votes."

His best chance at getting the most possible votes was to be at that press conference. He has proven he is not smart enough to be president by missing it. Bob Barr should step down now, his time has obviously past.

 

[amy31416]

I agree Barr was foolish in skipping the press conference but that's a minor fault in my opinion. He also never said anything positive about Bush or bad about Ron Paul, that was his staff. If you don't like the company he keeps then don't vote for him, simple as that. I don't think he's made any serious ethics violations, some bad staff picks but nothing more.

If you had someone working for your company who went out and said something outrageous that offended quite a few of your customers to the point where they said they would no longer buy your product, would you, as the owner of the company--just say, it was just my store manager, not me! Yet still keep him on as your manager?

 

[richiep]

If you had someone working for your company who went out and said something outrageous that offended quite a few of your customers to the point where they said they would no longer buy your product, would you, as the owner of the company--just say, it was just my store manager, not me! Yet still keep him on as your manager?

Two points... first as a business owner, I would not fire someone if they pissed off people that I knew were not planning on buying from us. I am a hardliner on this type of thing too, always preaching about customer service. Just the same it has to be measured out as what was done to piss off that potential customer. Barr's campaign people made a stupid move, we all say that, but this repeated blasting of it is way way over the top. Its clear to me at least that 99% of people repeatedly making an issue of this never would have voted for him.

Second, I have been on here a short time but I have seen your tagline promoting Lawson. I've seen his name thrown around and if I'm right, he's from NC or SC I believe? Now I'm not in his state but if I were I would have nothing but negative associations with his name by your posts. Do you think that's a good way to win votes for him? Why not help this movement by bashing the true enemies of liberty, not someone who you just don't like as he's not perfect enough for you --- or--- you are more interested in something other then liberty and perhaps that Lawson guy is one of those phonies too. I do remember seeing a his name being pushed on the dailypaul a lot before I gave up on that site a week or so ago, so I am beginning to wonder. Is that guilt by association? If it is, that seems to be a good enough standard to condemn him, based on some posts I've read on here.

 

[amy31416]

Two points... first as a business owner, I would not fire someone if they pissed off people that I knew were not planning on buying from us. I am a hardliner on this type of thing too, always preaching about customer service. Just the same it has to be measured out as what was done to piss off that potential customer. Barr's campaign people made a stupid move, we all say that, but this repeated blasting of it is way way over the top. Its clear to me at least that 99% of people repeatedly making an issue of this never would have voted for him.

Second, I have been on here a short time but I have seen your tagline promoting Lawson. I've seen his name thrown around and if I'm right, he's from NC or SC I believe? Now I'm not in his state but if I were I would have nothing but negative associations with his name by your posts. Do you think that's a good way to win votes for him? Why not help this movement by bashing the true enemies of liberty, not someone who you just don't like as he's not perfect enough for you --- or--- you are more interested in something other then liberty and perhaps that Lawson guy is one of those phonies too. I do remember seeing a his name being pushed on the dailypaul a lot before I gave up on that site a week or so ago, so I am beginning to wonder. Is that guilt by association? If it is, that seems to be a good enough standard to condemn him, based on some posts I've read on here.

1. I planned on "buying" the product, as I had every intention of voting for Barr.
2. As a businessman who sees another business that sunk, do you see those who were fervent fans of the other business and tell them that they were all idiots for shopping at that store, or do you say to them, we have something that is not only similar, but better!?
3. I absolutely was going to vote for Barr, your assumptions are completely incorrect, and you have no way of proving/disproving otherwise as votes are private. Why would I be so irritated by it if I didn't intend to vote for him?
4. The Lawson point? I don't know if you have a point or not. I really don't think that too many people here look at taglines anymore, but that's one decent way to make me feel guilty, because I truly believe Lawson is one of the good guys, whereas, I do not feel that way about Barr--and I never have. I was voting for him to help the LP.
5. I have pretty much stopped "blasting" Barr, except to respond to these threads.
6. It left a lasting impression not only about Barr, but about the Libertarian Party, whether you like it or not.

You're pretty good at the guilt thing in regards to BJ Lawson. Anything you want to tell us about your mother?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

As a Republican, The LP has pissed ME off by letting down the only REAL Libertarian leaning Republican in Congress, and by letting down their own party by nominating a fascist who promotes both George Bush and Al Gore.

I am impressed that the LP is actually trying to hold their people accountable. I have hope for the LP yet.

I have hope too, commrade. The gov'ment can't steal that away...yet!

 

[RickyJ]

As for the Bush and 9-11 comment, you must be from the "forget the twice a day thing, a broken clock is never right" group! As much as I think Busk is the worst of the worst, there was that one time he acted like a President should...

A president should not sit on his ass and listen to kids read a story about a pet goat for 10 minutes AFTER he heard that we were under attack. Sorry, Bush failed on 9/11 just like Barr has failed in his attempt to be a Libertarian.

 

[richiep]

A president should not sit on his ass and listen to kids read a story about a pet goat for 10 minutes AFTER he heard that we were under attack. Sorry, Bush failed on 9/11 just like Barr has failed in his attempt to be a Libertarian.

Why are you trying to persuade me about Bush, for the 15th time, that PR was not written for me or for you it was written for the PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE BUSH SHOWN LEADERSHIP THAT DAY. If Barr is not Libertarian enough for you, next time spend your money and you time, get behind someone better and help them win the nomination. This year Barr won the LP nomination and Paul lost the R one. You guys act like sore losers instead of just working now for liberty in ways that are possible, and there are many of them. Here are a few suggestions...

1) Go make up a sign that says something POSITIVE about liberty

2) Spend money and instead of making one sign, buy ten and put them up in your town.

3) Write messages on other boards that you belong to. For example, I just wrote one on a restaurant board that I visit that had an article about who is better for small businesses, Mcfart or BO. What exactly I wrote wouldn't make as much sense to those not in that industry but I compared them to two failures (not so much publicly known failures but very well know to owners in that industry) and its like debating which one would be a better investment. Then I said say none and vote third party with my choice being Bob Barr.

4) Join facebook and post messages or comment on other people's comments. I'm old, and I have a lot of younger friends on there from my business and relatives. My little one liners might help get them to think.

5) Find a really good article that people you know professionally can relate to and will read. Find one that can get them into a discussion wit you about politics. 99% of the time you know more then they do and will be fascinated with the conversation, if you don't beat them over the head with it.

6) Be creative, these are just a few examples off the top of my head. They are all things I've done in the past few months (I say months as its been a while since I made a sign, it was a really cute one my wife held at a sign waving thing we did - she holding it in one of the many Ron Paul youtube videos out there)

Finally, STOP BASHING OTHER PEOPLE who you have more in common with then the ones you oppose. Work for liberty, not perfection as you will never see or find perfection ANYWHERE.

 

[revolutionary8]

Why are you trying to persuade me about Bush, for the 15th time, that PR was not written for me or for you it was written for the PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE BUSH SHOWN LEADERSHIP THAT DAY. If Barr is not Libertarian enough for you, next time spend your money and you time, get behind someone better and help them win the nomination. This year Barr won the LP nomination and Paul lost the R one. You guys act like sore losers instead of just working now for liberty in ways that are possible, and there are many of them. Here are a few suggestions...

1) Go make up a sign that says something POSITIVE about liberty

2) Spend money and instead of making one sign, buy ten and put them up in your town.

3) Write messages on other boards that you belong to. For example, I just wrote one on a restaurant board that I visit that had an article about who is better for small businesses, Mcfart or BO. What exactly I wrote wouldn't make as much sense to those not in that industry but I compared them to two failures (not so much publicly known failures but very well know to owners in that industry) and its like debating which one would be a better investment. Then I said say none and vote third party with my choice being Bob Barr.

4) Join facebook and post messages or comment on other people's comments. I'm old, and I have a lot of younger friends on there from my business and relatives. My little one liners might help get them to think.

5) Find a really good article that people you know professionally can relate to and will read. Find one that can get them into a discussion wit you about politics. 99% of the time you know more then they do and will be fascinated with the conversation, if you don't beat them over the head with it.

6) Be creative, these are just a few examples off the top of my head. They are all things I've done in the past few months (I say months as its been a while since I made a sign, it was a really cute one my wife held at a sign waving thing we did - she holding it in one of the many Ron Paul youtube videos out there)

Finally, STOP BASHING OTHER PEOPLE who you have more in common with then the ones you oppose. Work for liberty, not perfection as you will never see or find perfection ANYWHERE.

1)Sorry, Not a pacifist here, especially when there is nothing POSITIVE going on Mr. Dali Lama
2) What if you have no money? "the economy is just fine"
3)Restaurant board? Mcfart or BO? Those are your choices????
4)facebook= CIA
5) good advice
6)good advice

Don't categorize PEER REVIEWS with bashing. It keeps US in check.