Kucinich is mad...

[angrydragon]

Stories of where gun saves lives (even by kids) usually go unreported.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLG0GMgZAYA

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lott/lott17.html

The point of the 2nd amendment though was to protect us from the tyranny of government.

 

[vertesc]

YES guns are dangerous. Yes that is an issue that must be dealt with. But let us also recognize the value of an armed populace.

An armed populace is, as Jefferson put it, the people's "last defense against tyranny". If they ever try and send all the Muslims to Gitmo, those people will have a way to fight back and resist injustice. If they ever try and send YOU to a rendition camp, you can fight for your own freedom. If the government chooses to exercise force on the population, the population is not helpless.

Remember:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.... when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

How on earth could a population "throw off" a despotic government if it is not armed?

It is too bad that guns can also present a danger to children etc. But better to deal with an issue of education and safety than one of despotism.

 

[beerista]

Gun registration and confiscation is the first step down the hill of tyranny. Just any Jew who was in Warsaw in 1939...

Have you seen the movie made about this event? "Uprising" is the most pro-self defense against tyranny non-documentary movies I've ever seen. Really inspiring story of resistance. And quite well done.

Along the same lines, check out Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. They are a no compromise kind of group, and I think in light of the above movie, one can understand why.

Over a long time, tyranny has been more the rule than the exception and disarming the populace is pretty much always the first step. I hate to bandy about statistics that I can't remember the reference for, but I have read that 100 million people were killed in the last century... by their own governments. I'm inclined to believe this as I'm no historian and I can account for about 30 million just off the top of my head. If you like, I'll try to locate the reference.

I think it bears mentioning that huge, horrible evils may in fact be the last thing on government officials' minds when they disarm their populations. They may do it for the best of reasons with nothing but goodness and love in their hearts. But a disarmed populace is the result nonetheless. And that does nothing but increase the temptation that must be endured by a later, less well inclined leader. Sure, maybe I trust Kucinich (I don't) with my protection once I'm disarmed and trust him not to take advantage of my helplessness. But who comes next?

 

[Nash]

uhhmm Ok let me see. Japan's has a very tough gun control. I heard the other day that were less than 10 gun related deaths in Japan. Now, I know Japanese people are crazy and they do kill mostly themselves. I think i like this idea. If someone goes crazy then they should kill themselves no others.

I dont know but letting everybody own guns seems like a stupid idea to me specially with so many irresponsible fathers leaving guns unlocked.

I can see toddlers taking guns to school for show and tell.

I see your point guys of "self defense" but I don't think it will work. Any country as an example? so I can do some research?

Switzerland basically mandates a gun in every household. Their homicide rate is as low as Canada's which has very strict gun control. The fact that Switzerland has guns all over the place but low death rates by guns proves to me that guns don't necessarily equal violence.

Note also that when you read statistics the term "homicide" is cited when one person kills another. This doesn't clarify whether it was murder or self-defense or a cop killing someone with a gun. The US has a high gun homocide rate, but that stat includes self-defense and police shootings.

There are a number of reasons why gun control is a bad idea, at least in the United States. As cited the primary reason is an armed population is also a free population. That's what the second amendment is for. But there are other less idealistic reasons. The notion that you can actually effectively enforce gun laws in this country is almost impossible without cops searching every household and confiscating them. I don't think anyone wants to live in a society like that.

Note also that in your example Japan is an island with a highly enforced border. The US border is wide open. If guns weren't legal to sell here you can be sure they would be imported from Latin America just like the drugs are.

The short of it: In the United States people who want guns are going to get their hands on them. If you outlaw them then people who obey the law are not going to be able to defend themselves against people who don't care about obeying the law. Also, it's totally unrealistic to think that law enforcement is going to protect you from criminals with guns. They might prosecute the criminal, but only after he's violated you or your family with a gun that he obtained illegally.

For better or for worse, guns are here to stay in this country, unless of course we choose to live in a police state. If we do that we're throwing the other 9 amendments of the bill of rights out the window along with the 2nd.

 

[denvervoipguru]

bump!

Well all the democrats, including Rudy, McCain, Romney voted for or want more gun-control.

Well put.

 

[beerista]

Plus he has advocated creating another bureaucracy, "the department of peace"...

And does anyone want to guess what the "MiniPax" will concern itself with?
I miss the good old days when they just acted out Orwell plots but took department names from Nazi Germany (Dept of Homeland Security). Now that they're actually taking the names of departments straight from Orwell, I'm a little insulted. It's as if they think no one's paying any attention. Or just don't care.

 

[Gee]

Switzerland has fully automatic weapons in 14% of homes I don't like guns much myself, but thats impressive given their level of crime and overall civility (Switzerland is non-intervention at work). The mark of a civil society should not be the absense of weapons, but the proper use of them.

Note also that when you read statistics the term "homicide" is cited when one person kills another. This doesn't clarify whether it was murder or self-defense or a cop killing someone with a gun. The US has a high gun homocide rate, but that stat includes self-defense and police shootings.

Gun violence statistics also often include suicide using a firearm, which is actually the largest cause of gun-related deaths.

But there are other less idealistic reasons. The notion that you can actually effectively enforce gun laws in this country is almost impossible without cops searching every household and confiscating them. I don't think anyone wants to live in a society like that.

There are 200 million guns in the US, give or take. The idea that enough of them could be confiscated so that criminals couldn't get ahold of them is... laughable. Even if 95%, or 190 million, guns were confiscated, that would still leave plenty left over for murderers and killers. Plus we'd have to fight a "War on Guns" which might be just as violent and costly as the war on drugs. Yay.

 

[enan]

Department of Peace. I love rhetoric.

Ministry of Peace, anyone? Now, come on. Orwell already used that name. Find another one.

But in all honesty, education is the key to a civil society of any kind. People are no longer educated about drugs, sex, or alcohol adequately - hence the reason why there is such a large problem with them. People are also no longer educated about guns - hence why there is such a widespread fear of them. Education is the key, but big government folks have buried it - on both sides of the aisle.