Kokesh on Atheism + Libertarians

[heavenlyboy34]

Rothbard would not have appreciated all this dumping on religion.

 

[TheLibertarianNationalist]

Atheism to most atheists just means "an absence of an active belief in any deities."

How does that defy logic?

The problem is there are different definitions to Atheism. Some affirm that there cannot be a God, like Hitchens use to do. Others just claim there is no evidence for a deity thus they cannot believe. I have problems with both of those beliefs.

 

[Victor Grey]

lol....huh?

Well, the leaders of their cities were known as "archons." Which are the things that, "an-archon-ists" are against. So yeah. Statists .

 

[Muwahid]

The best thing about the Ron Paul movement is that it brings together a large segemant of the populace that would otherwise just hate each other because of our diffrences instead of figuring out our diffrences are pretty small and our simularties are much larger.

True, and since Paulites are so diverse they (hopefully) grow as people and learn to accept other views even if they dont necessarily agree with them, themselves.

Libertarianism isn't..Christian, or Atheist its non of those it's non collective.

But lets face it the religious right, and the atheist left, have both been duped - and the majority of them both support what the state tells them to support so anyone who has a superiority complex especially because they belong to 'x' group, needs a reality check.

 

[Athena]

The problem is there are different definitions to Atheism. Some affirm that there cannot be a God, like Hitchens use to do. Others just claim there is no evidence for a deity thus they cannot believe..

The difference is "hard" atheism vs "soft" atheism.

 

[BrittanySligar]

Atheism to most atheists just means "an absence of an active belief in any deities."

How does that defy logic?

Bingo! Most Atheists are not "hard" atheists. I find that those who are "hard atheists" simply hold that position because too many times, they hear the theists trying to refute soft atheism by saying "SEE, you think that there IS a possibility of a god!", while failing to understand that soft atheists believe that the chances of any definition of god being true are equal to that of pink flying unicorns.

Hard atheists are a very small minority still, but constantly alluded to by theists when trying to say "Hey, look, theirs is also a position of faith!" Like it justifies their faith-based beliefs.

Atheism (lack of belief) is the default position. Evidence must be presented to justify any claims made. Faith is not a LOGICAL means to forming a belief, and is the greatest fallacy passed off to the believers. Faith is a belief in lack of, and sometimes in spite of evidence.

 

[muzzled dogg]

he's absolutely right but did a terrible job explaining

 

[BrittanySligar]

Rothbard would not have appreciated all this dumping on religion.

Rothbard was an atheist.

he's absolutely right but did a terrible job explaining

Agreed.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Bingo! Most Atheists are not "hard" atheists. They are a very small minority, but constantly alluded to by theists when trying to say "Hey, look, theirs is also a position of faith!" Like it justifies their faith-based beliefs.

Atheism (lack of belief) is the default position. Evidence must be presented to justify any claims made. Faith is not a LOGICAL means to forming a belief, and is the greatest fallacy passed off to the believers. Faith is a belief in lack of, and sometimes in spite of evidence.

lol...

"atheism is the default position"
"faith is not a logical means to forming a belief"


...wow

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Rothbard was an atheist.

He was a secular Jew-and he didn't appreciate atheist libertarians bashing religious people. He wrote a pretty lengthy essay about it. I don't have it handy, but LE posted it a while back.

 

[LibertyEagle]

he's absolutely right but did a terrible job explaining

That's bullshit, Shem.

Libertarianism is not tied to atheism in any manner, shape, or form.

 

[muzzled dogg]

yes it is

 

[BrittanySligar]

lol...

"atheism is the default position"
"faith is not a logical means to forming a belief"

...wow

I'm sorry. Is believing in a man in the sky who knows the future, is without need but requires worship, and created the world 5000 years ago in 7 days the default position?

1) If you were born on an island, would that be your default belief?

2) Does one arrive at this conclusion using logic, or what they are told by parents, church or a book? If you claim the former, please state the line of reasoning.

I'd appreciate an answer to these two questions.

 

[Athena]

lol...

"atheism is the default position"
"faith is not a logical means to forming a belief"


...wow

Can you refute it?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Rothbard was an atheist.

"But it is to Christianity that we owe individual freedom and capitalism. It is no coincidence that capitalism developed in Christian Europe after the transnational church limited the state. In ancient Greece and Rome, the individual was merely part of the city state or the empire, unimportant in his own right. Christianity changed that by stressing the infinite worth of each individual soul." - Murray Rothbard
http://www.stephankinsella.com/wp-content/uploads/texts/rockwell_tucker_rand.pdf

“Parenthetically, I am getting tired of the offhanded smearing of religion that has long been endemic to the
libertarian movement. Religion is generally dismissed as imbecilic at best, inherently evil at worst. The greatest
and most creative minds in the history of mankind have been deeply and profoundly religious, most of them Christian.” – Murray Rothbard
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard232.html

"Rothbard wrote for conservative Christian publications in the early 1950s and onward because he saw in Christianity a devotion to law and morality, not of state but of transcendent origin. Early memos even have Rothbard praising Catholicism for its implicit universalist anarchism as opposed to the nationalist-statist strains in Protestant history. Moreover, Rothbard showed how the demands of the rank-and-file Christian Right were mostly libertarian: keep government out of our churches, families, communities, and schools. Even today, libertarians have yet to understand the potential for strategic alliances here." - Lew Rockwell on Murray Rothbard
http://mises.org/daily/1788

 

[Athena]

I really don't think objectivism is a necessary consequence of atheism.

 

[BrittanySligar]

yes it is

Here's why.. The church uses coersion, force, and propaganda to perpetuate falsehoods and enslave people. So goes the state.

 

[Sola_Fide]

I'm sorry. Is believing in a man in the sky who knows the future, is without need but requires worship, and created the world 5000 years ago in 7 days the default position?

If you were born on an island, would that be your default belief?

"man in the sky"
"5000 years ago 7 days"
"without need but requires worship"
"knows the future"

...lol

 

[Sola_Fide]

I'm sorry. Is believing in a man in the sky who knows the future, is without need but requires worship, and created the world 5000 years ago in 7 days the default position?

If you were born on an island, would that be your default belief?

"man in the sky"
"5000 years ago 7 days"
"without need but requires worship"
"knows the future"

...lol

 

[Elfshadow]

Can you refute it?

Athena, you know I'm not in anyway shape or form a detist, but the entire world is built on faith. We have faith that our senses and reason do not lie to us. In the end every thing everyone knows in this world is based on faith. I'm probably to much of a solipsist to be in on this. LOL science to me is built on faith.