Matt Collins
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Kerry Bentvoilio having a primary challanger?! No, you don't say?
Didn't see that coming...
/sarc
Didn't see that coming...
/sarc
Kerry Bentivolio draws primary challenger
- Thread starter tsai3904
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Matt Collins
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Incumbents almost never lose except for the first re-election campaign, and if they are redistricted out, or if the district has a sea change in mentality (red to blue).
GunnyFreedom
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That's when he lost me too. He still would have been able to redeem himself from that, but he never even tried. It's just like Bastiat said in #17, it's like he just wanted to go with the flow of the caucus and disappear into the woodwork. That's such crap. I was disappointed in the Boehner vote, but I could have given him another chance. He clearly didn't want that chance. He got elected pandering to liberty, got into office and went straight establishment. He deserved to be primaried.
The problem with Freedoworks and most other scorecards is that they score so little votes. They've only scored 13 out of nearly 500 votes. My scorecard has 32 votes, 2.5x Freedomworks.
From my "cherry-picked" votes that I disagree with Jones, how would you vote on those?
And no one has said Jones and Bentivolio are "equal".
GunnyFreedom
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He's gonna have a hard time running a Congressional Primary on < $90k.
If you support Rand, will he lose your support when he votes for McConnell to be leader?
I don't understand this. Whoever creates a scorecard has their own bias and reflects their own views. That's why everyone should create their own so they can judge elected officials from their own viewpoints. Why would you want to judge elected officials through FreedomWorks' point of view when you can do it through your own point of view?
GunnyFreedom
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Ratings are about quality, not volume.
I have never claimed a yes or a no on any bill until I have read it in depth and I am not about to start now.
Nobody except YOU. Your case for why we should support this statist petty tyrant was predicated on the fact that he is tied with Walter Jones. Your case is built on a delusion. The only person or agency on the planet who equates Bentivolio with Walter Jones is you, yourself, and thou. I would have left you alone to make your case in peace, hopeless as it may be around here, but when you tried to equate him with Jones that's just obscene. Bentivolio is a go-along to get-along status quo establishmentarian, trying to hang on to the prestige of being a Congressman by kissing Boehner's posterior. Jones is the dead opposite of Bentivolio, and every rating agency on the planet (except you, yourself, and thou) agrees.
If you were going to have any hope of winning my sympathy for your cause, you destroyed it utterly by saying something so astoundingly stupid as to equate Bentivolio and Jones. Jones is a frikkin HERO. Bentivolio is an empty suit. I didn't actually care one way or the other about this race, because to me one empty suit is as good or bad as another, but your lunacy in the OP has me hoping he crashes and burns. Hard.
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GunnyFreedom
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You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. Do I need to type more slowly or something?
The very post you quote explained that I have my own metrics. You had to delete my words to make your point. WTF is your problem? Now you are going to rip my own words out of context and twist them into something else right in front of me? Your desperately unprincipled behavior is why I should support Bentivolio?? LMAO!
Not sure why you're taking this so personal...
All I said is I "hope" he wins. I even said I'm not sending him any money. How is that me building a case for people to support him?
As far as Jones being a hero. I absolutely agree. When it comes to foreign policy issues and war, he is a hero. That's not the only thing Congress votes on though. Jones has a lifetime 53% rating from Club for Growth.
All I said is I "hope" he wins. I even said I'm not sending him any money. How is that me building a case for people to support him?
As far as Jones being a hero. I absolutely agree. When it comes to foreign policy issues and war, he is a hero. That's not the only thing Congress votes on though. Jones has a lifetime 53% rating from Club for Growth.
Man...I honestly don't understand your grudge. I am NOT asking anyone to support Bentivolio. I am NOT trying to pick a fight with you.
I'm really regretting sending you money for your campaigns given your personal reaction to my comments.
GunnyFreedom
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It makes me angry when people carve out 5 words from a paragraph and pretend that I said the opposite of what I said. It shows that you have no principles, and I don't like people lying about me. I got enough to that crap from the newspapers when I was in office. To get that crap from alleged 'liberty' people, people who are supposed to be on my same team, is deeply offensive.
You called him equal to Jones. I know Jones personally. To me, that is an insult to a friend. I guess I'm old-school, someone insults my friends I get pissed.
Foreign policy is just one part of why he is a hero. He is also a hero on domestic liberty. Opposing indefinite detention, not just supporting but fighting for the Amash NSA defunding, and having the guts to stand up against Republican leadership that is killing America.
I am usually criticized around here because I make foreign policy too small a part of my metric. If you think foreign policy is the only place Jones far excels other Congress critters, then you have your eyes wide shut. Maybe he can improve on some spending issues, he's a 90%er instead of a 98%er like Rand. Oh my. Considering the Boehner THAT BENTIVOLIO SUPPORTED is a 20%er color me unimpressed. Policy doesn't come from an individual member, policy comes from leadership. Until Bentivolio has the stones to call a spade a spade and tell Boehner to take a long walk off a shore pier you can stop trying to convince me -- it ain't gonna happen.
GunnyFreedom
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If you don't want to piss me off then don't lie on me. When the newspaper does it I just blow it off. When a putative 'ally' does it it makes me damn angry. If you think "I donated to your campaign" is going to make me abandon principle, then you haven't been paying much attention to what I stand for these last 3 years. Ask anybody else on RPF's who donated to me if money makes me act one bit different. I should think a Ron Pauler would be encouraged by the fact I don't give a damn if you donated, I am going to stand on principle come hell or high water. You can always refuse to donate to my US Senate campaign. No skin off my nose.
Keith and stuff
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Lol. I'm not even following this conversation closely, but that was a funny line. +Rep
eduardo89
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He probably thought that Boehner and Cantor would help him out with fundraising.
GunnyFreedom
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I'm not a big fan of the development of inaccurate imagery for the purpose of making rhetorical points. Fact is Jones is decent on economic issues too. There are some votes I may not agree with, but even AFP, a fiscally-focused organization, rates Jones at 88%, and Bentivolio at 75% on fiscal policy alone.
If I have an OCD-like issue that pulls my trip-wire it's truthfulness. Your reaction confirms my fundamental rationale here. You bought the spin that Jones is bad on fiscal issues. That's simply not true. The votes that made Jones into a fiscal derelict were cherry-picked. AFP has Jones significantly better than Bentivolio on fiscal issues alone, and even the NTU -- the harshest rating agency in the United States on fiscal policy has Jones as "acceptable" (grade C) for 2011, and he's miles better than that now in 2013.
Disagreement doesn't even begin to bother me. Deception and dishonesty will make me go nuclear, especially when allies do it. Is Jones as good as I would like on fiscal issues? No, he's not. Is he anything like what he was being characterized as? Not even close!
//
ETA deleted last para, added nothing, was probably provocative.
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Well Gunny, assuming every bill he listed is factual, I'd hardly call it cherry picking. Lets review them and rank importance.
HR 41 - bill to authorize FEMA to borrow $9.7 billion due to Hurricane Sandy- Certainly an important vote given how laced with pork these things are.
HR 297 - bill reauthorizing federal support for children's hospitals at levels ABOVE Obama's request-Not as important
Resolution calling on sanctions for North Korea-Hugely important
HR 933 - CR from March through September- HUGE HUGE vote
Republican Study Committee's 5 year balanced budget-Very important vote
Amendment reducing the statutory requirement from 11 to 10 the number of carriers Navy must have-Not as important
Amendment cutting spending in NDAA so that it complies with Budget Control Act-Pretty important
Also, his club for growth rating is indeed mediocre.
Overall, he missed the boat on enough to not be considered a great fiscal champion. That's okay, I love Jones for other things, but on economics he appears to be just okay.
HR 41 - bill to authorize FEMA to borrow $9.7 billion due to Hurricane Sandy- Certainly an important vote given how laced with pork these things are.
HR 297 - bill reauthorizing federal support for children's hospitals at levels ABOVE Obama's request-Not as important
Resolution calling on sanctions for North Korea-Hugely important
HR 933 - CR from March through September- HUGE HUGE vote
Republican Study Committee's 5 year balanced budget-Very important vote
Amendment reducing the statutory requirement from 11 to 10 the number of carriers Navy must have-Not as important
Amendment cutting spending in NDAA so that it complies with Budget Control Act-Pretty important
Also, his club for growth rating is indeed mediocre.
Overall, he missed the boat on enough to not be considered a great fiscal champion. That's okay, I love Jones for other things, but on economics he appears to be just okay.
GunnyFreedom
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I never said Jones was excellent on fiscal issues, but that overall even on this hyperfocus, he still better than Bentivolio.
The first and only CR he's ever voted for, and he has already pledged not to vote for the next one. From his own explanation at this website, Obama set it up so that in the event of a government shutdown Congress would still get paid but the military would not. Since he represents a huge military population, he was worried that a shutdown would leave him getting paid but struggling soldiers getting nothing. His vote to avoid a government shutdown was a direct result of the malfeasance of the President to punish Jones's constituents in the event that a shutdown happened. I would have preferred the shutdown but I do not blame him for putting his constituents first.
Not really. Study Committees are basically irrelevant. The most that ever comes out of a study committee is someone references their findings 5 years later in order to support or oppose a given bill.
No, he's not excellent on fiscal issues. I never claimed he was, but he is getting progressively better year on year. He's stronger in 2013 than he was in 2011, and he's better than Bentivolio even on the narrow fiscal policy range given as evidence. His C4G score is basically the same as his NTU score, and both are showing steady improvement year on year.
And back to the honesty issue, Jones did not pretend to be a fiscal super-conservative and then get elected only to betray his promises. Bentivolio did. So even if they were the same score (which they are not) then Jones would still be miles better, because Jones has been dead honest the whole way through while Bentivolio said one thing and then did another.
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