Just got off the phone with HQ

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Im not giving another dime to them unless they show me my vote matters to them.
Its time to get aggresive with this campaign, but noone seems to want to do it. When Paul loses what are you going to do? I hear alot of talk about how we will continue blah blah blah. You know what? I believe the only people who will are the defamed "truthers" in this campaign. All you other liberal's will go back and stick you head in the sand until the next go around. Talk in your little liberal rags about how the system is biased and unfair. But, you wont get off your asses and do anything to change it. Here's a hint. You want the LP not to be seen as a damn joke of a party? Actually try to effect change, build your base up, fundraise and get some damn money, effect policy change. But no, its easier to just complain and hope someone else will do it.
 
There is also major blowback in just letting this slide.

We are revolutionaries fighting for our freedom, so when they screw us over at the polls are we just to ignore it?

If we do, next time they won't just take 3 or 4 percent of our votes, but laugh with glee as they steal many more. After all, why shouldn't they steal them if we just sit back and allow it.

If we are to get any respect from our enemy, we have to fight back. If we cower down, they will happily roll their tanks over us . . .

My two cents . . . .

We must fight back! If we don't set a precedent that we are not going to tolerate this then on Super Tuesday we could have even more votes stolen!
 
Im not giving another dime to them unless they show me my vote matters to them.
Its time to get aggresive with this campaign, but noone seems to want to do it. When Paul loses what are you going to do? I hear alot of talk about how we will continue blah blah blah. You know what? I believe the only people who will are the defamed "truthers" in this campaign. All you other liberal's will go back and stick you head in the sand until the next go around. Talk in your little liberal rags about how the system is biased and unfair. But, you wont get off your asses and do anything to change it. Here's a hint. You want the LP not to be seen as a damn joke of a party? Actually try to effect change, build your base up, fundraise and get some damn money, effect policy change. But no, its easier to just complain and hope someone else will do it.

I agree. There are a lot of cowards on here.
 
Dr. Paul isn't stupid, he will handle this, but his campaign can't be part of calling out this fraud.

Luckily he has die hard grass roots supporters that don't need his direction. At least, I hope he does.
 
Just have faith in Doctor Paul. I'm sure he is weighing the options more heavily than all of us; I trust his judgement, and I can only hope he has something up his sleeve.

Agreed. Someone else pointed out that we trust Paul with the presidency, we need to trust him with the campaign.
I don't like the support I'm getting here in MI, but that doesn't mean I'm not out talking to friends, neighbors, dropping lit, etc. Control the controllables people.
 
No.. a warmonger did not win an anti-war state. A warmonger won the REPUBLICAN TICKET, which has been pretty much a warmonger ticket for the past few years. The ANTI war people went Democratic almost exclusively, with Clinton and Obama getting more votes than McCain and Romney.

Clinton Obama McCain Romeny Edwards Huckabee. Democrats in 1st, 2nd, and 5th.

That's where the "anti-war" people went.
 
I'm ashamed of everyone on here that is saying the campaign should not pay for a recount!

You have to see the risks! Vote fraud is a serious accusation. I don't think the evidence is strong enough to proof a significant "misscount".

There are several ways to make us look bad.

1) There is no fraud to begin with.
2) The recounts shows that we have 50 votes more. It's insignificant and will be "human mistakes".
3) There is vote fraud, but those who recount are the same, so we never find out.

All this will make us look like a stupid, conspiracy fanatic, fringe campaign of sore loser.
 
I just spoke to somebody from HQ and asked for a recount. He told me that they are getting many many calls like mine. I've never called HQ for anything but I felt this was important after looking over some of the evidence.

Do you know what I was told? That they are "aware of the situation"

The person went on to say that if you request a recount that can have blowback and cause voters to think you're a fringe candidate.

I got the impression that the top was telling the people answering the phones to answer this way.

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!

What difference does that make if it is CLEAR that not all of the votes are being counted?

It MATTERS NOT what anybody thinks - Ron Paul will NOT win this election because they are FIXING IT so at the very least LET'S PROVE IT!!!!

Just my two cents. If you happen to feel the same way I don't know - give them a call too.
 
I just spoke to somebody from HQ and asked for a recount. He told me that they are getting many many calls like mine. I've never called HQ for anything but I felt this was important after looking over some of the evidence.

Do you know what I was told? That they are "aware of the situation"

The person went on to say that if you request a recount that can have blowback and cause voters to think you're a fringe candidate.

I got the impression that the top was telling the people answering the phones to answer this way.

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!

What difference does that make if it is CLEAR that not all of the votes are being counted?

It MATTERS NOT what anybody thinks - Ron Paul will NOT win this election because they are FIXING IT so at the very least LET'S PROVE IT!!!!

Just my two cents. If you happen to feel the same way I don't know - give them a call too.


As much as I want this exposed to the world - I think HQ has it right. We even have members of this forum doubting any voter fraud - so just imagine what non-RP supporters are going to think. They could be right about the blowback.
 
Asking for a recount when you're in fifth place is a PR nightmare. It'll do more harm than good.
 
Please don't

Look, I've not been shy pointing out when I think the official campaign staff are screwing up. (Actually, I've been very reserved and only made a small fraction public, but that's another story.)

In this ONE CASE, I think HQ is making the right decision. Only if we thought Dr. Paul got 50% more votes than his total shows would it make enough of a difference to get him in the top three and get awarded any delegates. There is no reason to think that is the case.

There are simply too many other things where HQ is behind schedule, etc., to worry about spilled milk. They need to be working now on making sure they stop screwing up the coming voting.

And yes, I type grudgingly, they are right also about the perception too.

In sum, the costs outweigh the expected benefits.
 
Hqs is RIGHT about not getting a recount in NH

I'm fully aware of vote fraud, etc. That said, to have Paul complain would isolate him further. USE YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE.

The final tally (might not be completey accurate, but is telling) was

Huckabee 26,760
Guilliani 20,387
Paul 18,276

Only 8,484 separated Paul from Huckabee

Only 2,111 votes separted Paul from Guilliani.

Too many Paul supporters are "loose cannons" like chasing Sean Hannity down with signs and shouting at him. Very Professional isn't it? That's great publicity, which puts us in "fruitcake alley."

You would never find McCain, Romney, Clinton or Obama supporters doing that?

GROW THE you know what UP!

Suggest you ponder this article by Alex Merced. He's right. NOW, Time and Money are on Paul's side.

http://causeoffreedom.blogspot.com/

Tuesday, January 8, 2008
#86 - Ron Paul People, the worst is over
Hey Guys the worst is over, we just survived two states where every candidate had massive organizations and staffs at work for the last 6 months with a lot of people hired to motivate voters to the polls. Luckily, this is no longer the case in the rest of the states here on out. In IA and NH you had a presence from ALL the candidates and it's all they can afford.

Huckabee and Mccain can't afford to rally and organize their voters in any states other than IA and NH, and Romney is suffering but betting the horse on those two states. So now Romney is scrambling to organize last minute in other states while the rest can't afford to do so while Ron Pauls grassroots has been strong in every state. Turnout will be lower here on out in many states for many reasons which puts the ball back in Ron Pauls court. We have massive voting, but high turnout has diluted our percentages.

- Michigan will have no campaigning from dems since there's no delegates at stake, and most of GOP is going straight for South Carolina except Romney who is attempting to rally Michigan for some much needed momentum. ROn Paul is the only candidate with an HQ and organization, Romney can rally but we'll have the organization to turnout the vote in a state the media doesn't care about making the turnout reallllly low.

- Nevada is being ignored by candidates due to being on the same day as South Carolina, and again Paul is only candidate with the organization there to turn out the vote. Super low turnouts will occur due to the switch from a primary to a caucus which will catch many likely voter off guard.

- South Carolina is a state that will respond to Ron Pauls federalist message, we'll see. Turnout may backfire on us again at this state since the media blitz will be here as well and the dem race motivates people to the polls and Obama eats up swing voters.

- Again a media blitz and possible high turnout works against us, but the lack of the dems pressence leaves the swing voters all to Ron Paul since Mccain doesn't have the money to reach Florida independents. Can we beat Giuliani at his stronghold?

- Florida is so close to super Tuesday I doubt any candidate will have enough time to organize anything in these states, Luckily Ron Paul has been running ads in many of these states and the grassroots is a lot more organization than many of the candidates have the luxury of having. Super low turnout and high RP turnout is a good mix for super Tuesday.

It's still anyones game, this is a game of endurance and everyone else has been sprinting but we're going at a safe pace.
 
Some of you people also seem to forget this simple fact. The campaign has to answer to You and ME. We are their base, we are their boss. I think what pisses me off more than anything is the total lack of any communication whatsoever between us and HQ. Here's something you might find funny. Huckabee actually talks to his grassroots. They have an idea, they go talk with the campaign about it and they formulat a strategy, and it seems to be working for them. Every time we call HQ we are told, "we are aware"or "we are looking into that".

Im tired of it, so go on and talk now for the next 11 days how we will pull 3rd in SC because our message is so good and people have to convert to it. When we pull 6th there behind everyone what will you all say.
 
Look, I've not been shy pointing out when I think the official campaign staff are screwing up. (Actually, I've been very reserved and only made a small fraction public, but that's another story.)

In this ONE CASE, I think HQ is making the right decision. Only if we thought Dr. Paul got 50% more votes than his total shows would it make enough of a difference to get him in the top three and get awarded any delegates. There is no reason to think that is the case.

There are simply too many other things where HQ is behind schedule, etc., to worry about spilled milk. They need to be working now on making sure they stop screwing up the coming voting.

And yes, I type grudgingly, they are right also about the perception too.

In sum, the costs outweigh the expected benefits.

If they don't have a recount then I will stand up and say that Ron Paul is not as principled as I thought he was.
 
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