Judge Rules Trump Committed Fraud, Stripping Control of Key Properties

[acptulsa]

The summary judgment the judge rendered was for liability. There will be a trial to determine the size of the penalty and other remedies.

Penalty.

Remedies for whom, exactly? Is anyone going to get any of this plunder but government and government employees?

This does sound less and less like a civil case...

 

[Anti Federalist]

The Judge claimed Mar-a-Lago is only worth $18 million.

The vacant property down the street that is 1/10th the size is going for $150 million.

Mar-a-Lago is estimated to be worth upwards of $1 billion or more.

I used to live in Palm Beach County.

20 acres of land on the island, along with the Post/Trump estate itself, is worth $800 million to $1 billion in today's market, I think.

 

[Sonny Tufts]

Penalty.

Remedies for whom, exactly? Is anyone going to get any of this plunder but government and government employees?

This does sound less and less like a civil case...

Don't forget that the Trump companies are government-chartered, and there's probably something in NY law that allows the state to seek penalties for fraudulent behavior.

 

[Firestarter]

This does sound less and less like a civil case...

It does seem odd. Why is there no prison sentence demanded?!?
This fraud looks even more serious than not properly disclosing hush payments to a porn star and Playboy bunny...

.

Remedies for whom, exactly? Is anyone going to get any of this plunder but government and government employees?

Obviously those poor poor banks couldn't figure out that big bad Donald inflated the worth of his real estate.
I guess you're not arguing that the banks should be compensated (as far as I can tell it isn't even claimed that they suffered any damage).


Maybe it really is merely a publicity stunt that will give Donald the media attention he needs, bringing in the go-fund-my-lawsuits bucks and votes.
Although I DO find it hard to believe that this will make Donald more popular overall.

 

[dannno]

Don't forget that the Trump companies are government-chartered, and there's probably something in NY law that allows the state to seek penalties for fraudulent behavior.

Fortunately this behavior is totally normal and pretty much 100% of businesses who engage in similar business transactions engage in similar behavior.

Care to comment on the Judge claiming Mar-a-Lago is only worth $18 million?

It's 17.5 acres. There is a property down the street on a half acre with a home that probably cost about $1 million or so to build, that is currently listed at $40 million.

It is realistically probably worth $600 million - $1 billion plus.

The Judge is literally retarded.. either that or a complete lying authoritarian Stalinist toolbag.

 

[Sonny Tufts]

Care to comment on the Judge claiming Mar-a-Lago is only worth $18 million?

The judge said that the Palm Beach County Assessor had appraised the property at between $18 and 27.6 million. Why? Because Trump had placed conservation easements on the property restricting its use to that of a social club and "limiting changes to the Property, including, without limitation, the division or subdivision of the Property for any purpose, including use as single family homes, the interior of renovation of the mansion, which may be necessary or desirable for the sale of the Property, the construction of new buildings and the obstruction of open vistas". In exchange for these easements and restrictions the property was taxed at a much lower rate than it otherwise would have been (which was a major purpose of placing the restrictions on the property in the first place)

And guess what? The value for the property shown on Trump's financial statements didn't reflect these restrictions.

See pages 26-27 of the judge's order, available here: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fb...cumentId=op8OyfqVHpc6eGTx9LOw3Q==&system=prod[/quote]

The Judge is literally retarded.. either that or a complete lying authoritarian Stalinist toolbag.

No, the folks who are retarded are those who make knee-jerk assertions without knowing all of the facts. Also retarded is anyone who would pay $600 million for a property with these restrictions.

 

[69360]

The Judge claimed Mar-a-Lago is only worth $18 million.

The vacant property down the street that is 1/10th the size is going for $150 million.

Mar-a-Lago is estimated to be worth upwards of $1 billion or more.

As a resident of Florida, I can tell you there is no way in hell it is worth 18 million. Add a zero to that probably. I would say 150-200 million. Not a billion, not way. 18 million on my part of the east coast of Florida buys you a 2000-3000 sq foot house on a 1/4 acre lot oceanfront.

 

[69360]

The judge said that the Palm Beach County Assessor had appraised the property at between $18 and 27.6 million. Why? Because Trump had placed conservation easements on the property restricting its use to that of a social club and "limiting changes to the Property, including, without limitation, the division or subdivision of the Property for any purpose, including use as single family homes, the interior of renovation of the mansion, which may be necessary or desirable for the sale of the Property, the construction of new buildings and the obstruction of open vistas". In exchange for these easements and restrictions the property was taxed at a much lower rate than it otherwise would have been (which was a major purpose of placing the restrictions on the property in the first place)

And guess what? The value for the property shown on Trump's financial statements didn't reflect these restrictions.





No, the folks who are retarded are those who make knee-jerk assertions without knowing all of the facts. Also retarded is anyone who would pay $600 million for a property with these restrictions.

Around here in Florida the easments basically mean nothing. If you grease the right people, they just go away.

 

[spudea]

The judge said that the Palm Beach County Assessor had appraised the property at between $18 and 27.6 million. Why? Because Trump had placed conservation easements on the property restricting its use to that of a social club and "limiting changes to the Property, including, without limitation, the division or subdivision of the Property for any purpose, including use as single family homes, the interior of renovation of the mansion, which may be necessary or desirable for the sale of the Property, the construction of new buildings and the obstruction of open vistas". In exchange for these easements and restrictions the property was taxed at a much lower rate than it otherwise would have been (which was a major purpose of placing the restrictions on the property in the first place)

And guess what? The value for the property shown on Trump's financial statements didn't reflect these restrictions.

See pages 26-27 of the judge's order, available here: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fb...cumentId=op8OyfqVHpc6eGTx9LOw3Q==&system=prod

This changes nothing. Obviously, a new owner could remove those easements, and saying tax assessed value should be the same as market value or value presented to a bank is ludicrously retarded.

 

[Valli6]

Has anyone notice that every time the Republicans fine a new damning piece of information on Hunter and Joe, then some judge puts a slap down of Trump?

Yes.

100s Of Pages Of Newly Released Memos Spark Fresh Corruption Charges Ahead Of 1st Biden Impeachment Inquiry Hearing
WEDNESDAY, SEP 27, 2023 - 09:45 PM

Mountains of evidence released by House Republicans on the Ways and Means Committee today point to a decade and more of influence peddling and financial fraud involving President Joe Biden, his son Hunter, and brother, James, and multiple business associates.

These documents will be reviewed on Thursday in the first special impeachment inquiry hearing of the House Oversight and Accountability Committee.

Newly revealed materials confirm that Hunter Biden was traveling the world to sell influence and access to the Biden “brand,” meaning his father, Joe Biden.

Hunter has even referred to access to his father as “the keys” to “my family’s only asset.”...

https://www.zerohedge.com/political...park-fresh-corruption-charges-ahead-1st-biden

 

[dannno]

No, the folks who are retarded are those who make knee-jerk assertions without knowing all of the facts. Also retarded is anyone who would pay $600 million for a property with these restrictions.

Tell that to Forbes.. they literally said the basis from the Judge was on the tax assessed value, it's actually worth around $450-$650 million, people involved with the deal (from the bank) testified there was no fraud, the loans were all paid back and everything Trump did was completely normal for this type of business deal.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

Any Person treated like Trump is getting treated is getting harassed and railroaded.

When did these transactions take place? What about statute of limitations?

 

[Sonny Tufts]

This changes nothing. Obviously, a new owner could remove those easements

Hardly. When you place a conservation easement or other similar restrictions on property they are binding on all future owners. In Property Law 101 it's called restrictions that "run with the land".

 

[acptulsa]

Hardly. When you place a conservation easement or other similar restrictions on property they are binding on all future owners. In Property Law 101 it's called restrictions that "run with the land".

All?

So, no easement has ever been removed? Ever?

Nothing like a few insults to one's intelligence with one's coffee.

 

[Sonny Tufts]

All?

So, no easement has ever been removed? Ever?

Nothing like a few insults to one's intelligence with one's coffee.

You might want to read up on the history of Trump's conservation easement.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story...-lago-tax-break-veiled-irs-review/3572915001/

 

[Occam's Banana]

https://twitter.com/Travis_in_Flint/status/1717166811689439248

 

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/Travis_in_Flint/status/1717166811689439248

Always helps to have "hates white people" on your resume as well.

Equal justice my aching ass.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1717030987060727999

 

[Sonny Tufts]

Trump has been fined $10,000 for violating the court's order not to refer to court personnel, in this instance the judge's clerk. Although Trump claimed he was referring to Michael Cohen and not the clerk, the judge said, ""As the trier of fact, I find that the witness [Trump] is not credible."

This is Trump's second violation of the order; he was fined $5,000 for the first one. After the second, the judge told Trump "Don't do it again or it will be worse."

https://www.reuters.com/legal/donal...ce-off-again-new-york-fraud-trial-2023-10-25/

 

[Anti Federalist]

NYC-Judge fines Trump $354 million, bans him from NYC business for three years

Judge fines Donald Trump more than $350 million, bars him from running businesses in N.Y. for three years

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...damages-pay-millions-judge-engoron-rcna135283

Feb. 16, 2024, 3:05 PM -05 / Updated Feb. 16, 2024, 4:30 PM -05

By Adam Reiss and Dareh Gregorian

The judge who presided over a civil business fraud trial against Donald Trump on Friday ordered the former president, his sons, business associates and company to pay over $350 million in damages and temporarily limited their ability to do business in New York.

Judge Arthur Engoron ordered the former president and the Trump Organization to pay over $354 million in damages, and bars Trump "from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in New York for a period of three years," including his namesake company.

The ruling also bars Trump and his company from applying for any bank loans for three years.

The decision is a potential blow to both Trump's finances and persona — having built his brand on being a successful businessman that he leveraged in his first run for president. Trump is currently running for the White House for a third time. This case is just one of many he is currently facing, including four separate pending criminal trials, the first of which is scheduled to begin on March 25.

Engoron also continued "the appointment of an Independent Monitor" and ordered "the installation of an Independent Director of Compliance" for the company.

During the trial, Trump and executives at his company, including his sons Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, attempted to blame exaggerated financial statements that were the heart of New York Attorney General Letitia James' fraud case on the accountants who compiled them. Engoron disagreed.

"There is overwhelming evidence from both interested and non-interested witnesses, corroborated by documentary evidence, that the buck for being truthful in the supporting data valuations stopped with the Trump Organization, not the accountants," he wrote.

The judge also cited the lack of remorse by Trump and his executives after the fraud was discovered as showing the need for a monitor.

"Their complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological. They are accused only of inflating asset values to make more money. The documents prove this over and over again. This is a venial sin, not a mortal sin. Defendants did not commit murder or arson. They did not rob a bank at gunpoint. Donald Trump is not Bernard Madoff. Yet, defendants are incapable of admitting the error of their ways," Engoron wrote.

"Defendants’ refusal to admit error — indeed, to continue it, according to the Independent Monitor — constrains this Court to conclude that they will engage in it going forward unless judicially restrained," he added.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

Where does that money, if collected, go?