Judge Napolitano "Immigration is a right."

[The Freethinker]

I am a former immigrant who became a naturalized citizen of the United States.

I went through ALL the legal channels from start to finish. I never illegally crossed land or maritime borders; I got off an airplane at an international airport, went through immigration with all my papers, and within weeks of my arrival my green cards arrived.

I went to public schools, enrolling at ESL classes first to learn the English language. Those ESL classes taught me about the Pilgrims, the early English influence on the colonies, Halloween, Thanksgiving (it was most probably the first time many of my former classmates ate turkey - many may never even have known turkey meat was edible), etc. I eventually learned English, became Americanized enough to start watching US sitcoms, collecting Marvel comics, learning what a pep rally was, differentiating between junior varsity and varsity sports. I took the SAT. I applied for college. I took out student loans, and later paid them off.

I fell in love with this country, although I have in recent years received an education which no school I earlier went to gave me (Austrian economics and libertarian thought). It is because I love America that I hate the statism that has corrupted the America the Founders wanted it to be.

Immigration is a right, but it is not to be taken lightly. Citizenship is an honor and a privilege one earns.

Mexican immigration laws openly states immigrants must prove they can contribute to society. Canadian immigration laws are strict, and applying for Canadian citizenship has requirements that must be duly followed. Every country has the right to regulate who comes in, who stays in, and who is entitled to acquire the citizenship, and all pertaining privileges, of that country.

I once escorted a senior citizen to court, on the ceremony where all present were awarded their naturalization certificates and swore allegiance to America. Two things stand out from that day.

One, the friendliness and warmth on the judge’s face. It was the same as the day on the occasion I myself was sworn as an American citizen. I always thought of judges as harsh, and while I’m sure those judges were quite capable of sternness during trials, they were kind to all. The humble demeanors on the faces of those being sworn in showed their appreciation.

Two, a comment by that senior citizen. The senior citizen, from a racially and culturally homogenous country, told me how absolutely generous America was as she sat there waiting for her name to be called, for her to retrieve her certificate of naturalization. She said her own country was never and would never be this welcoming to foreigners from all over the world.

That senior citizen, like me, came to America legally through all the proper channels, paying every fee and tax and submitting every required form and document. Sometimes the proper channels include obligatory visits to US consulates for interviews as to why one wants to immigrate to America.

No one deserves to be a US citizen just because they came here. Laws are imperfect and the state is corrupt, but there are at least some benefits with certain imperfect laws imposed by the state. One of them is to prevent people who come here from abusing the generosity of America.

And it is the generosity of America, along with its genius of liberty and freedom that the Founders instituted, that makes me a libertarian, an advocate of sound money, and a staunch defender of many wonderful things about this country. So to those of you who were born here and are dismayed by the deterioration we've witnessed under Bush 43, Obama, and their statist predecessors: things may be bad, but there's still very much to be proud of here in the United States. You may not realize it because you haven't lived abroad.

America, the Beautiful. God shed His grace on thee.

 

[Deborah K]

I am a former immigrant who became a naturalized citizen of the United States.

I went through ALL the legal channels from start to finish. I never illegally crossed land or maritime borders; I got off an airplane at an international airport, went through immigration with all my papers, and within weeks of my arrival my green cards arrived.

I went to public schools, enrolling at ESL classes first to learn the English language. Those ESL classes taught me about the Pilgrims, the early English influence on the colonies, Halloween, Thanksgiving (it was most probably the first time many of my former classmates ate turkey - many may never even have known turkey meat was edible), etc. I eventually learned English, became Americanized enough to start watching US sitcoms, collecting Marvel comics, learning what a pep rally was, differentiating between junior varsity and varsity sports. I took the SAT. I applied for college. I took out student loans, and later paid them off.

I fell in love with this country, although I have in recent years received an education which no school I earlier went to gave me (Austrian economics and libertarian thought). It is because I love America that I hate the statism that has corrupted the America the Founders wanted it to be.

Immigration is a right, but it is not to be taken lightly. Citizenship is an honor and a privilege one earns.

Mexican immigration laws openly states immigrants must prove they can contribute to society. Canadian immigration laws are strict, and applying for Canadian citizenship has requirements that must be duly followed. Every country has the right to regulate who comes in, who stays in, and who is entitled to acquire the citizenship, and all pertaining privileges, of that country.

I once escorted a senior citizen to court, on the ceremony where all present were awarded their naturalization certificates and swore allegiance to America. Two things stand out from that day.

One, the friendliness and warmth on the judge’s face. It was the same as the day on the occasion I myself was sworn as an American citizen. I always thought of judges as harsh, and while I’m sure those judges were quite capable of sternness during trials, they were kind to all. The humble demeanors on the faces of those being sworn in showed their appreciation.

Two, a comment by that senior citizen. The senior citizen, from a racially and culturally homogenous country, told me how absolutely generous America was as she sat there waiting for her name to be called, for her to retrieve her certificate of naturalization. She said her own country was never and would never be this welcoming to foreigners from all over the world.

That senior citizen, like me, came to America legally through all the proper channels, paying every fee and tax and submitting every required form and document. Sometimes the proper channels include obligatory visits to US consulates for interviews as to why one wants to immigrate to America.

No one deserves to be a US citizen just because they came here. Laws are imperfect and the state is corrupt, but there are at least some benefits with certain imperfect laws imposed by the state. One of them is to prevent people who come here from abusing the generosity of America.

And it is the generosity of America, along with its genius of liberty and freedom that the Founders instituted, that makes me a libertarian, an advocate of sound money, and a staunch defender of many wonderful things about this country. So to those of you who were born here and are dismayed by the deterioration we've witnessed under Bush 43, Obama, and their statist predecessors: things may be bad, but there's still very much to be proud of here in the United States. You may not realize it because you haven't lived abroad.

America, the Beautiful. God shed His grace on thee.

This is a beautiful testimony.

 

[AGRP]

What is bigoted is believing that someone will take advantage of welfare programs based solely on their country of origin.

Sounds like it. Is this debate really about resources? Resources belonging to whom? The state? What resources? Public schools? The DMV? The CPS? State colleges? Public utilities? Medicare? Social Security? Roads? Hmm. I though most libertarians believed those resources should be in private hands, but then by magic they suddenly become extremely valuable public resources when mexicans and asians are added to the mix.

 

[Deborah K]

It seems like theres a certain amount of racism that exists whether people recognize and admit it or not. Theres plenty of european descended canadians who are illegal and no one is complaining about them. I dont think many people would care if most people who came from mexico and asia looked like europeans.

I don't think people who are out of work and trying to compete with illegals in the trucking industry, landscaping, construction, hotel, restaurant, and most other service oriented businesses CARE one iota about race. *facepalm*

 

[sailingaway]

Sounds like it. Is this debate really about resources? Resources belonging to whom? The state? What resources? Public schools? The DMV? The CPS? State colleges? Public utilitys? Medicare? Social Security? Roads? Hmm. Seems like most libertarians believe those resources should be in private hands, but then by magic they suddenly become extremely valuable public resources when mexicans and asians are added to the mix.

The point is you can't have open immigration with a welfare state. Once people have had thousands a year taken when they didn't have kids to pay for schools, when they do have kids they don't have that money to have private schools instead, at the prices they are in areas where the public schools are seriously degraded. Schools are one example, hospitals another, welfare is not the one that impacts most people other than in the pocket book. The schools and medical care impact the quality of schools and medical care for all.

If they had not been created it would be a different situation, but once the force of the state has been used to create those systems and take money for those services, I do believe a nation has an obligation not to swamp the systems it has forced its people into.

 

[dinosaur]

You may not realize it because you haven't lived abroad.

Everyone who is waiting for the collapse instead of working to right our ship, or who thinks that we should leave our land to whatever other culture wants to inhabit it, should live and work on their own overseas for a year and get a dose of reality. Visiting is different, really immerse yourself in another culture without the buffer of American freinds and family, and you will see what this person is talking about.

 

[fisharmor]

There may be racism in there, too, I've seen some ugly stuff, but it is the drain on resources that is the issue, while people are forced to pay into a welfare state and made dependent on the services provided because their money was taken to pay for them.

The art of economics consists in not merely looking at the immediate but at the longer effects of any act or policy; it consists of tracing the consequences of that policy not merely for one group but for all groups.

Last year I completely renovated my kitchen, including the subfloor, everything out and new stuff in, for around $4500.
Go check with a couple contractors and see if any of them estimate you at less than ten times that.
We were able to do this in part because of illegal immigrants. And as a result we have a new kitchen, and there is at least $30,000 in the economy that can be put to a somewhat better purpose than waiting around for four hours and then having to reschedule the inspection because the county official chose the exact moment you couldn't hold in the turtle head any longer to come knocking.

It's just not as simple as "they're a drain on resources".

 

[otherone]

The point is you can't have open immigration with a welfare state.

Which of your Rights are you willing to part with to prevent it? Which of my Rights are you willing to sacrifice to prevent it?

 

[AGRP]

The point is you can't have open immigration with a welfare state.

You value a welfare state more than a human being who doesnt pay into it? That's sad. Hopefully, one day you will realize a human being is a human being regardless of what club card they have or dont have.

 

[sailingaway]

Last year I completely renovated my kitchen, including the subfloor, everything out and new stuff in, for around $4500.
Go check with a couple contractors and see if any of them estimate you at less than ten times that.
We were able to do this in part because of illegal immigrants. And as a result we have a new kitchen, and there is at least $30,000 in the economy that can be put to a somewhat better purpose than waiting around for four hours and then having to reschedule the inspection because the county official chose the exact moment you couldn't hold in the turtle head any longer to come knocking.

It's just not as simple as "they're a drain on resources".

I didn't say it was that simple, but they are only able to survive on those wages because they are getting the benefits of taxpayer funded schools for their kids, medical, etc. The taxpayers subsidize the benefit package and many aren't getting the benefit of your floors. Beyond that, it isn't just cost, but degredation of the health care and schools, etc. That goes way beyond price to people's health and children's futures.

THAT is why there is so much resistance to open borders in the NON racist part of America. Which I believe is the vast majority of the country.

 

[sailingaway]

You value a welfare state more than a human being who doesnt pay into it? That's sad.

That' ^^ is spin. Valuing a good education for children and decent medical care after being forced to pay for it isn't 'valuing the welfare state'.

 

[otherone]

I don't think people who are out of work and trying to compete with illegals in the trucking industry, landscaping, construction, hotel, restaurant, and most other service oriented businesses CARE one iota about race. *facepalm*

Everyone who is waiting for the collapse instead of working to right our ship, or who thinks that we should leave our land to whatever other culture wants to inhabit it, should live and work on their own overseas for a year and get a dose of reality. Visiting is different, really immerse yourself in another culture without the buffer of American freinds and family, and you will see what this person is talking about.

With all due respect, Deborah K, there are many who have posted here who disagree with you.

 

[AGRP]

That' ^^ is spin. Valuing a good education for children and decent medical care after being forced to pay for it isn't 'valuing the welfare state'.

Thats exactly what you stated. You said you cant have one without the other. You value the welfare state more than the human without the club card.

 

[dinosaur]

With all due respect, Deborah K, there are many who have posted here who disagree with you.

culture = race?

Please explain.

 

[sailingaway]

Thats exactly what you stated. You said you cant have one without the other.

No, I didn't I said once it already existed and the money had been taken, the state which should not have taken it was obligated to manage the service properly. A way it could be done is to ACTUALLY POLICE not letting any but citizens use those things and let everyone go where they want, but it is never going to happen, and would create the situation of dying people being turned away by hospitals, etc.

So as long as the welfare state DOES exist, impacts on services are a real consideration.

 

[otherone]

culture = race?

Please explain.

lol. "culture"= code. Please tell me. In your travels, what foreign "culture" is most compatible with "our" culture. In addition, please tell me what "our" culture is, so's i may inform my neighbor to put away his Ganesh statue.

 

[Deborah K]

With all due respect, Deborah K, there are many who have posted here who disagree with you.

I haven't read the whole thread. Are you implying there are people competing for jobs (posting on this thread) who are upset with illegals who are Mexican, but wouldn't be upset if they were white Canadians? Because that is my point.

 

[AGRP]

Im willing to bet most of this debate wouldnt exist if Chin Lee resembled Britney Spears and Rosa the cleaning lady looked like a French maid.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

It seems like theres a certain amount of racism that exists whether people recognize and admit it or not. Theres plenty of european descended canadians who are illegal and no one is complaining about them. I dont think many people would care if most people who came from mexico and asia looked like europeans.

That might apply to some people, but it's a gross generalization. There is certainly a focus in the media on people crossing from south of the border, but this is by no means the only source of immigration. It may also be due to the fact that people tend to become more concerned about "floods" of immigration, where people are not assimilated, and start to form their own sub-society. It could be any racial or ethnic group. It's more a matter of how obvious it is, or how much publicity it gets on the idiot box. Masses of people of Central American heritage, not being able to speak English stand out. Quite literally. They are standing out in front of Home Depots and 7/11s. They are doing jobs that tend to be the visible types; gardening, construction, etc. High visibility leads to more focus.

If every IT person from India spent their entire day sitting at a computer on the edge of the street instead of in buildings, they would get just as much publicity as South of the Border immigration. It would be a good guess that many Americans would literally be shocked at the numbers.

And this does come back around to your point. Obvious racial differences are erroneously used to identify immigrants. It doesn't necessarily mean racism or racial preference, it means jumping to conclusions. In some places, a "white" person walking down the street is just as likely to be a recent immigrant as a Hispanic or Asian.

People who are against illegal immigration usually have the same answer when this is pointed out. "It doesn't matter where they came from, they all need to get in line!" (I.e. follow the legal process.)

 

[Deborah K]

lol. "culture"= code. Please tell me. In your travels, what foreign "culture" is most compatible with "our" culture. In addition, please tell me what "our" culture is, so's i may inform my neighbor to put away his Ganesh statue.

Compare the American culture with the British culture. Or the Australian culture. And please, don't confuse culture with religion/spirituality. (Ganesh)

http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/choudhury/culture.html

SOME DEFINITIONS
Culture refers to the cumulative deposit of knowledge, experience, beliefs, values, attitudes, meanings, hierarchies, religion, notions of time, roles, spatial relations, concepts of the universe, and material objects and possessions acquired by a group of people in the course of generations through individual and group striving.
Culture is the systems of knowledge shared by a relatively large group of people.
Culture is communication, communication is culture.
Culture in its broadest sense is cultivated behavior; that is the totality of a person's learned, accumulated experience which is socially transmitted, or more briefly, behavior through social learning.
A culture is a way of life of a group of people--the behaviors, beliefs, values, and symbols that they accept, generally without thinking about them, and that are passed along by communication and imitation from one generation to the next.
Culture is symbolic communication. Some of its symbols include a group's skills, knowledge, attitudes, values, and motives. The meanings of the symbols are learned and deliberately perpetuated in a society through its institutions.
Culture consists of patterns, explicit and implicit, of and for behavior acquired and transmitted by symbols, constituting the distinctive achievement of human groups, including their embodiments in artifacts; the essential core of culture consists of traditional ideas and especially their attached values; culture systems may, on the one hand, be considered as products of action, on the other hand, as conditioning influences upon further action.
Culture is the sum of total of the learned behavior of a group of people that are generally considered to be the tradition of that people and are transmitted from generation to generation.
Culture is a collective programming of the mind that distinguishes the members of one group or category of people from another.