Judge Napolitano "Immigration is a right."

[UMULAS]

I never stated that immigrants hurt the economy. I stated, that more people immigrating to the U.S. Compounds the economic problems. Why? Inserting more people into the job market when opportunities are gradually fading away, just means less opportunity for more and more people.

Immigration is good during prosperity.
Immigration is bad during decline.

Immigrants can make jobs, also it's healthy to have competition on jobs. Look at the guilded age of America.

 

[Danke]

As the purpose of therapy is admitting the truth, seems part of the problem causing mental illness today is how we have to pay someone lots of money in order to be in therapy. When people are honest in public, therapeutically speaking, they are called crazy. It's all quite funny. Funny in how Plato once taught people how to generalize in order to gain control over tyranny. Now the best of the educated today criticize people for generalizing. Is it any wonder we are all so confused?

You know you can't even carry on a rational conversation, right?

 

[otherone]

Is it any wonder we are all so confused?

I'm not confused at all. I see you as someone using pointless self-aggrandizing rhetoric to justify your fear of anyone different than you. This is America, you're free to hate anyone you want. What I can't abide however, is that you believe assuaging your own personal insecurities is enough cause to have my Rights further trampled upon by the state.

 

[RickyJ]

It's not like there's some finite number of jobs out there where when one person gets one that leaves one less for someone else.

If there are an infinite number of jobs for a finite number of people then why is unemployment so high? The reason is manipulation of the economy. This nation is purposely being destroyed and most worker-visa holders are being used by the elite to help the destruction of this nation. If you think that is not the case then you are living in a bubble.

 

[BSWPaulsen]

Okay, as in self-ownership as opposed to having ones soul fully owned as a slave by a master? Deductive reasoning as it was developed by Aristotle? Self-evident as in reduced to an undeniable proposition as apposed to modern theoretical science? You see, you still haven't answered the question. Supposedly, our Founders sent to a king a conclusion within The Declaration of Independence which, to be a natural law, had to have within it both a conclusion and an analysis explaining the conclusion. So, what would have concern Immanuel Kant with The Declaration of Independence? The conclusion iself, or the analysis of the conclusion within it?

Self-ownership as in one controls their person, and therefore owns it. This is a self-evident proposition that you cannot effectively deny.

Deductive reasoning predates Aristotle. Your association fallacies have previously been dismissed as logically invalid, and it is no different now. Your failure to argue your position on its own merit is noted.

What has also been noted is your willingness to acquiesce to State abuses of human rights so long as it benefits you.

Honest question - why are you on a board dedicated to liberty?

 

[Danke]

Doesn't matter, don't change the subject.

Do you believe that the government has the right to watch and give National ID's?

Of course they don't. It is a voluntary system, that is the only way it passed the constitutional muster.

But of course, if you want to work for someone else, they make it difficult not to have one.

 

[UMULAS]

Of course they don't. It is a voluntary system, that is the only way it passed the constitutional muster.

But of course, if you want to work for someone else, they make it difficult not to have one.

I know, but the federal government caused it for problems; that's why I signed up to get my SSN.

However, she stated that immigrants need documents and paper, which I find it contradicting a liberty state would do. Because no country ever used documentations and informations as a weapon against the people.

SSN's are barely voluntarily, since majority of parents give it to their kids without choice.

 

[AGRP]

So, on one side we have people who believe people are human beings regardless of what club card they have or dont have. On the other, we have people who believe the country is a giant bargain warehouse filled with goodies purchased by taxation and no one with their club card gets in. Right?

 

[dinosaur]

Mass Immigration from one country to another -> Balkanization -> war

We just need to look at history if we want to find out what happens in real life when the rate of immigration exceeds the rate of cultural assimilation.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

You know you can't even carry on a rational conversation, right?

Man, you have no idea. Do you realize Socrates spoke with a demon? It was allowed in Greek society during that time to do so. But Socrates heard a very clear voice in his head. It said to him to quit his life in the Athenian army and take up a life of philosophy. This so bothered him that, according to lore, he prayed for a whole day before obeying the voice. Do you realize Socrates wasn't even an elite? By elite, I mean he wasn't a trainer kind of teacher of the very rich as Aristotle was later on. Socrates wasn't even a professor like Plato. He didn't write and some question his reading ability. Yet, out of Socrates didn't come just laws, but a whole new order. He was a true Sage in this fashion.
Okay, so far we have someone who spoke to a demon. He wasn't an elite.
On top of this, he had absolutely no fear for his own life as a hoplite as the Spartans were so in awe of him that they spared his life. Okay, so think of a great serving kind of a philosopher, one who spoke with the clear voice of a demon in his head, and one who had no fear of death.
Would you consider this man rational?

 

[UMULAS]

So, on one side we have people who believe people are human beings regardless of what club card they have or dont have. On the other, we have people who believe the country is a giant bargain warehouse filled with goodies purchased by taxation and no one with their club card gets in. Right?

Immigrants pay taxes, therefore they should receive any social program.


Jesus.. Am I going to keep re-posting this all the time every time some argues against immigration?

 

[Ender]

I side with Napolitano on this one.

As for the arguments about people crossing private property in order to traverse the border, it is highly doubtful that the "owners" actually use all of that property, and arbitrarily deciding where people can travel based on imaginary lines is irrational. Any understanding of property rights that creates ownership of unused land can and should be rejected on logical grounds.

What is not a right is to violate the rights of others when there is no clear way that yours have been aggressed against. If immigrants destroy private property in the process (and this has happened), then they should be punished in accordance with law. If not, then they should be free to pursue their own prosperity - this was one of the principles that made the USA great.

If we're going to deal with the State at all, then it can safely be assumed that one within the Nation-State's boundaries is subject to its laws by virtue of voluntarily moving themselves into its territory.

The real problem here is the State's welfare programs providing an incentive that we are coerced into providing, and that is where a lot of the xenophobia stems from. I cannot imagine we'd be having this conversation if the Federal authority weren't so damn out of control, and restricting all of our opportunities.

The problem isn't immigrants. The problem is the State not fulfilling what should be its only responsibility - administering law based on human rights - and choosing other priorities.

Thank you! Great post- you are 1000% on the mark.

As for Mexicans, I hate to break it to y'all but California was once part of Mexico.

I am from California and I have had tons of Hispanic friends- they are the hardest workers on the planet- usually raised by a tough Mexican mama who showed them how to work. They do NOT take jobs from others; they take jobs that no one else will do. As long as people are working and contributing to their community, they are assets.

The welfare state was created to make people prisoners- it needs to be abolished.

 

[UMULAS]

Mass Immigration from one country to another -> Balkanization -> war

We just need to look at history if we want to find out what happens in real life when the rate of immigration exceeds the rate of cultural assimilation.

So cultural assimilation = justice

Please...tell me what the 1st amendment is again, I forgot what it was.

 

[Danke]

I know, but the federal government caused it for problems; that's why I signed up to get my SSN.

However, she stated that immigrants need documents and paper, which I find it contradicting a liberty state would do. Because no country ever used documentations and informations as a weapon against the people.

SSN's are barely voluntarily, since majority of parents give it to their kids without choice.

Once you are 18, you don't have to use it.

 

[UMULAS]

You are full of it. The crimes committed by "whites" do a lot more damage to the average American than some gang crime by "people of color" will ever do. I, along with my neighbors can easily defend against the threat of local violence.

A little harder against the well organized and funded mafia we call government.

Actually, not of to brag, but as for studying two months on retribution vs rehabilitation, it was reported that whites make the most crimes, however they have the lowest rate on race. Getting arrested or put in jail is not you did, but of your ethnic group and race. It's sad, but true.

 

[Danke]

Immigrants pay taxes, therefore they should receive any social program.


Jesus.. Am I going to keep re-posting this all the time every time some argues against immigration?

They do pay taxes, but no one should use any social programs.

 

[UMULAS]

They do pay taxes, but no one should use any social programs.

Unless it's in the 10th amendment, then it's constitutional.

Hoever, I'm pro-immigrant (as you see in recent posts) and Con on social programs.

So I believe that we can just compromise and allow immigration but end social programs. I'm all for two birds one stone.

EDIT:

Never knew you can voluntarily decide on SSN once your 18. However, government regulations such as artificial loaning and jobs caused it for SSN to go from voluntarily to "there is no way out maaaaaaan".

 

[Danke]

Actually, not of to brag, but as for studying two months on retribution vs rehabilitation, it was reported that whites make the most crimes, however they have the lowest rate on race. Getting arrested or put in jail is not you did, but of your ethnic group and race. It's sad, but true.

You will have to clarify that for me. Violent crimes? Whites as a percentage? Anyway, the lawyers, judges with the backing of bankers are a bigger threat to me than any individual.

 

[Danke]

Unless it's in the 10th amendment, then it's constitutional.

Hoever, I'm pro-immigrant (as you see in recent posts) and Con on social programs.

So I believe that we can just compromise and allow immigration but end social programs. I'm all for two birds one stone.

EDIT:

Never knew you can voluntarily decide on SSN once your 18. However, government regulations such as artificial loaning and jobs caused it for SSN to go from voluntarily to "there is no way out maaaaaaan".

I agree. I see no reason to restrict one's right to freely travel.

 

[Danke]

Man, you have no idea. Do you realize Socrates spoke with a demon? It was allowed in Greek society during that time to do so. But Socrates heard a very clear voice in his head. It said to him to quit his life in the Athenian army and take up a life of philosophy. This so bothered him that, according to lore, he prayed for a whole day before obeying the voice. Do you realize Socrates wasn't even an elite? By elite, I mean he wasn't a trainer kind of teacher of the very rich as Aristotle was later on. Socrates wasn't even a professor like Plato. He didn't write and some question his reading ability. Yet, out of Socrates didn't come just laws, but a whole new order. He was a true Sage in this fashion.
Okay, so far we have someone who spoke to a demon. He wasn't an elite.
On top of this, he had absolutely no fear for his own life as a hoplite as the Spartans were so in awe of him that they spared his life. Okay, so think of a great serving kind of a philosopher, one who spoke with the clear voice of a demon in his head, and one who had no fear of death.
Would you consider this man rational?

And there you have it:

You know you can't even carry on a rational conversation, right?