John Stossel: The Stupidity of "Buy American"

[low preference guy]

And Kenyans might actually be better off if they did things themselves.

If they consume something, even if it's made abroad, they can do it only because they produced something. You can't convince foreigners to give things to you unless you give them something else, you know?

 

[nobody's_hero]

It's news to me that free traders say tariffs will "end the world". We just say that it is better to have free trade, just like it is better to have no minimum wage than a minimum wage. Nice straw man.

No straw man here. There's enough evidence on RPF of the outcry against so-called 'protectionist' tariffs. Every single argument made by free-traders espouses that tariffs hurt the economy, but China is living proof that is not the case. People in China have jobs, and income, and manufacturers flood into their country every day from around the world.

 

[nobody's_hero]

You can't convince foreigners to give things to you unless you give them something else, you know?

Where've you been bro? The U.S. is doing that very thing, lol.

 

[low preference guy]

No straw man here. There's enough evidence on RPF of the outcry against so-called 'protectionist' tariffs. Every single argument made by free-traders espouses that tariffs hurt the economy, but China is living proof that is not the case. People in China have jobs, and income, and manufacturers flood into their country every day from around the world.

lol. you have a pretty low standard to call something "proof". that's like saying that porn harms the economy. it is clear that the standard of living in the U.S. has gone down since the advent of the internet, as the economy was much better when porn wasn't freely available on the internet.

we now have "proof" that porn harms the economy.

 

[low preference guy]

Where've you been bro? The U.S. is doing that very thing, lol.

I was addressing Kenya, bro, if you didn't forget your own post that I quoted.

 

[torchbearer]

No straw man here. There's enough evidence on RPF of the outcry against so-called 'protectionist' tariffs. Every single argument made by free-traders espouses that tariffs hurt the economy, but China is living proof that is not the case. People in China have jobs, and income, and manufacturers flood into their country every day from around the world.

tariff is a sales tax.
the tariff on sugar was put in place to "protect domestic sugar cane growers", all we got for it was higher sugar prices(the tariff increased sales tax) and a bunch of corn syrup in our sodas.

basically the cane farmer couldn't compete so now you are paying for their inabilities.

 

[low preference guy]

tariff is a sales tax.
the tariff on sugar was put in place to "protect domestic sugar cane growers", all we got for it was higher sugar prices(the tariff increased sales tax) and a bunch of corn syrup in our sodas.

basically the cane farmer couldn't compete so now you are paying for their inabilities.

the protectionists can thank tariffs for the widespread use of high fructose corn syrup too.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

the protectionists can thank tariffs for the widespread use of high fructose corn syrup too.

That, and the fact that many products taste like shit without HFCS (like gatorade), and subsidies for corn growers, and argri-lobbies.

 

[torchbearer]

the protectionists can thank tariffs for the widespread use of high fructose corn syrup too.

tarrifs can be used as a form of price control by setting a floor for the price. it damages everyone but the special interest group.

 

[nobody's_hero]

tariff is a sales tax.
the tariff on sugar was put in place to "protect domestic sugar cane growers", all we got for it was higher sugar prices(the tariff increased sales tax) and a bunch of corn syrup in our sodas.

basically the cane farmer couldn't compete so now you are paying for their inabilities.

Here's essentially what is happening today, in practice (not theory):

Let's say I put up a huge wall between you and me, and I tell you, a manufacturer, that in order to do business with folks on my side of the wall, you have to pack up your business and set up shop on my side. You don't have anything to lose, since the people on your side of the wall would never prohibit goods from coming over to their side (they're all free-traders, except for that one Anti-Federalist guy who doesn't like what he sees going on around him, lol). So you jump over to my side, and now you can do business on both sides of the wall.

This is why China is booming. They have a wall up that only lets goods go one way. No one is going to pass up a billion-person market, especially when they can tap the Chinese and U.S. market (300 million) just by relocating to China. If anything, Chinese tariffs on imports are actually attracting businesses to China. The consumer benefits as well, because more businesses means more competition. More competition leads to lower prices.

Plus they have jobs too!

 

[nobody's_hero]

lol. you have a pretty low standard to call something "proof". that's like saying that porn harms the economy. it is clear that the standard of living in the U.S. has gone down since the advent of the internet, as the economy was much better when porn wasn't freely available on the internet.

we now have "proof" that porn harms the economy.

The free-trader argument is:

"Tariffs hurt the economy."

China is not hurt.

Questions?

 

[torchbearer]

Here's essentially what is happening today, in practice (not theory):

Let's say I put up a huge wall between you and me, and I tell you, a manufacturer, that in order to do business with folks on my side of the wall, you have to pack up your business and set up shop on my side. You don't have anything to lose, since the people on your side of the wall would never prohibit goods from coming over to their side (they're all free-traders, except for that one Anti-Federalist guy who doesn't like what he sees going on around him, lol). So you jump over to my side, and now you can do business on both sides of the wall.

This is why China is booming. They have a wall up that only lets goods go one way. No one is going to pass up a billion-person market, especially when they can tap the Chinese and U.S. market (300 million) just by relocating to China. If anything, Chinese tariffs on imports are actually attracting businesses to China. The consumer benefits as well, because more businesses means more competition. More competition leads to lower prices.

Plus they have jobs too!

the goal of life is not to work. i don't want a job- i want to produce wealth. china doesn't keep me from doing that with their wall.

 

[jmdrake]

In fact, Kenya wouldn't be so damn poor if they would just be more protectionist. If they want modern medicines and modern medical equipment, they had better make it themselves than allow their own country to be bankrupted by countries that can make those things much cheaper and more efficiently.

Actually you've made a pretty good argument against what passes for "free trade". For example, in many African countries the textile industry has completely collapsed because used clothing from Europe is dumped below cost. As for modern medicines, South Africa was going to produce its own AIDS drugs, violating U.S. patents, until Bush promised billions in "AIDS aid". And remember Clinton bombing the aspirin factory? These nations could produce their own modern medicines if we would just stay the hell out of their way.

 

[nobody's_hero]

the goal of life is not to work. i don't want a job- i want to produce wealth. china doesn't keep me from doing that with their wall.

But China IS producing wealth. If you want the prices of goods to fall, you increase production. You don't increase consumption. That just leads to scarcity.

I'm trying to tell you guys the same thing that Anti-Federalist has been saying:

'The Chinese have figured out the game.'

But free-traders argue that China is only hurting itself with tariffs. I don't see it. They don't either, apparently too busy counting the money.

 

[silverhandorder]

The free-trader argument is:

"Tariffs hurt the economy."

China is not hurt.

Questions?

China also does not have the regulatory burden that we have.

Actually you've made a pretty good argument against what passes for "free trade". For example, in many African countries the textile industry has completely collapsed because used clothing from Europe is dumped below cost. As for modern medicines, South Africa was going to produce its own AIDS drugs, violating U.S. patents, until Bush promised billions in "AIDS aid". And remember Clinton bombing the aspirin factory? These nations could produce their own modern medicines if we would just stay the hell out of their way.

How is that a bad thing? Where is it written that Africa must have a textile industry?

 

[torchbearer]

But China IS producing wealth. If you want the prices of goods to fall, you increase production. You don't increase consumption. That just leads to scarcity.

I'm trying to tell you guys the same thing that Anti-Federalist has been saying:

'The Chinese have figured out the game.'

But free-traders argue that China is only hurting itself with tariffs. I don't see it. They don't either, apparently too busy counting the money.

why don't we try producing wealth for ourselves first. if we can't do that- we can't even begin to produce wealth for others.
i think most people get money and wealth confused. wealth is the services and objects the make our life better. china's wall has nothing to do with our lack of wealth production.

it would be like claiming the auto industry destroyed jobs because it shut down the horse carriage industry. jobs were lost, but more and better wealth is produce.

if venezuala can produce sugar cheaper, then that frees up our resources here to produce more developed wealth like tech, which we could trade for sugar.(indirectly using a money system).

an earlier time of serfdom when Ag took up 90% of the workforce led to full employment, but wealth was minimal. tractors destroyed jobs. but it created more wealth with fewer people freeing up others and their resources to develop other types of wealth.

intervention into any of those processes would have been terrible.

i'd rather a market with 320 million people deciding with their dollars what is best for their life and business, than having an interventionist government telling me i can't have cheap products because it will cause someone to lose a job.
in a free market, a lost job is a natural resource reallocation.

 

[low preference guy]

The free-trader argument is:

"Tariffs hurt the economy."

China is not hurt.

Questions?

it is hurt, they would've been a lot better than they are had they not had tariffs. tariffs in China are a transfer of wealth from chinese consumers to the chinese government. only statists believe that giving more money to the government helps the economy.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

China is in a massive bubble right now, and will likely see economic stagnation in the future, for the record.

 

[jmdrake]

How is that a bad thing? Where is it written that Africa must have a textile industry?

It certainly hasn't been good for Africa. It's led to more dependence where starving people in Africa are dependent on the west for aid. If you like pocket being picked to feed starving kids who's parents might have had the money to feed them before when they made native cloth then I suppose it's all good. It's no accident that one of the first things Ghandi did in his countries bid for independence was to promote "homespun" cloth. Whether this is "written" or not is totally irrelevant.

 

[torchbearer]

It certainly hasn't been good for Africa. It's led to more dependence where starving people in Africa are dependent on the west for aid. If you like pocket being picked to feed starving kids who's parents might have had the money to feed them before when they made native cloth then I suppose it's all good. It's no accident that one of the first things Ghandi did in his countries bid for independence was to promote "homespun" cloth. Whether this is "written" or not is totally irrelevant.

people started making their own clothes were started to produce their own wealth. step one.
of course the technical/mechanical skills for complex devices and vehicles were missing for most- so the options were limited.
go with what you are good at.
instead of admitting we are in a system that destroys/steals wealth from the productive- we focus on what china is doing.
i think we should get the log jam out of our eye before we start talking about the splinter in theirs.