John Stossel: The Stupidity of "Buy American"

[Brian4Liberty]

And how is it, that all the things, and many more, that I listed above are all built in heavily regulated, socialist societies?

If we are going to take economic textbooks and theories as gospel, then I demand an answer to that, since standard economic thinking would suggest that in a heavily regulated, unionized, socialist society, nothing would get accomplished efficiently.

No...there's more going on to this than just simple economics, there is currency and capital manipulation and "insiders" rigging this game.

Continuing on this path of "globalization" is insanity, it is economic and national suicide.

+ rep "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again."

 

[Anti Federalist]

+rep

I think you missed the part were I said 60% of Americans were buying BEFORE the "Free Trade" agreements. They didn't just suddenly decide to quit buying American. SOMETHING happened that caused them to buy cheaper product at lower costs. That something was the decline of manufacturing and the loss of jobs across the spectrum. Also, the loss of the American middle-class single income family that came with it.
And this notion that losing these manufacturing jobs frees up labour for more advanced tasks is hog-wash. That is what the government tried to sell to the people in the area that lost their ability to make a living doing what they had done for generations. The local community college (Formally, a technical institute which specialized in furniture construction.) is now turning out nurses and other service sector employees to a population increasingly unable to afford such services. The businesses that have replaced furniture, freed up labour, are currently phone service centers and a Target distribution center. Jobs that pay less than 1/3 of the previous jobs.
The current business plan for Hickory N.C.? The local government has all but given up trying to get new businesses and believe that all will be right if they can convince the retirement community to move here. More low wage jobs for those who's labour has been freed up.

 

[jtstellar]

i like how minorities with generally disagreed opinions in this community tend to vote each other up.. it's like a group under oppression tend to stick together better.. talk about herd mentality

free trade issues have been explored and every libertarian issue can be discussed at length.. you're not gonna convince anyone one way or the other with a two paragraph post on some internet forum.. the only difference is have you heard debates or read books or not. from how i see it, the only separation is this: the lazy camp and not. btw no anti free trader has won argument against any of the well known leaders around this movement, not against peter schiff, not against tom woods, not against ron paul. not one intellectual leader of this movement harbors the anti free trade argument, in fact, before you waste anymore time posting nonsense because your livelihood depended on some subsidies. tough luck. if your livelihood depends on trade war, we don't need you.

 

[Anti Federalist]

i like how minorities with generally disagreed opinions in this community tend to vote each other up.. it's like a group under oppression tend to stick together better.. talk about herd mentality

free trade issues have been explored and every libertarian issue can be discussed at length.. you're not gonna convince anyone one way or the other with a two paragraph post on some internet forum.. the only difference is have you heard debates or read books or not. from how i see it, the only separation is this: the lazy camp and not.

You're free to vote up what you think is correct as well.

And what is this "lazy camp" that you speak of?

US workers take less time off, work longer hours and, on an hourly level are more productive than almost all industrialized nations.

We're busting our asses here, and yet still moving backward, due to a combination of government policies, taxes, regulations, tariffs and monetary supply that all play a role in rushing us down a hill in a race to the bottom.

 

[pcosmar]

i like how minorities with generally disagreed opinions in this community tend to vote each other up.. it's like a group under oppression tend to stick together better.. talk about herd mentality

Isaiah's Job

"Ah," the Lord said, "you do not get the point. There is a Remnant there that you know nothing about. They are obscure, unorganized, inarticulate, each one rubbing along as best he can. They need to be encouraged and braced up because when everything has gone completely to the dogs, they are the ones who will come back and build up a new society; and meanwhile, your preaching will reassure them and keep them hanging on. Your job is to take care of the Remnant, so be off now and set about it."


I think, is that in any given society the Remnant are always so largely an unknown quantity. You do not know, and will never know, more than two things about them. You can be sure of those – dead sure, as our phrase is – but you will never be able to make even a respectable guess at anything else. You do not know, and will never know, who the Remnant are, nor what they are doing or will do. Two things you do know, and no more: First, that they exist; second, that they will find you. Except for these two certainties, working for the Remnant means working in impenetrable darkness; and this, I should say, is just the condition calculated most effectively to pique the interest of any prophet who is properly gifted with the imagination, insight and intellectual curiosity necessary to a successful pursuit of his trade.

Albert Jay Nock

 

[Bordillo]

The flaw in this logic is that we can't produce anything as cheap as it can be done in other countries. We're strangled by our own rules and regulations.

If we buy the cheapest thing to "free up our resources", wouldn't we naturally buy the next thing from the cheapest country who produces it? We aren't producing many cheap products now. What's going to happen that will change that?

Where I live almost all industry is gone. Only one factory producing a product remains. We used to have about eight and all of those have moved to other countries. It's obvious that if we would have bought products from these factories while they were here they would have remained.

This is bad logic

Buying cheap frees up more income, which in turns allows the consumer to spend more money on different things. The U.S. is a highly service based economy. That money saved will go to other areas of the economy

 

[Brian4Liberty]

i like how minorities with generally disagreed opinions in this community tend to vote each other up.. it's like a group under oppression tend to stick together better.. talk about herd mentality

Are you a US citizen?

you're not gonna convince anyone one way or the other with a two paragraph post on some internet forum.. the only difference is have you heard debates or read books or not.

You have left out the best teacher of all, experience. Many of us were hard core, free-trade, open borders libertarians when we were young and idealistic. And I rarely say that because I hated when someone said that to me when I was younger. Reality has changed our opinions on some things. It will probably change some of our opinions in the future. Don't be surprised if your opinions change over time.

 

[specsaregood]

btw no anti free trader has won argument against any of the well known leaders around this movement, not against peter schiff, not against tom woods, not against ron paul. not one intellectual leader of this movement harbors the anti free trade argument,.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread; Dr. Paul is for "free trade" as he is against government making decisions and meddling in our transactions. BUT he still CHOSE to buy domestic because he (dr. paul) wanted to buy american. I don't think he would have any problem whatsoever with non-govt "buy american" advocacy by consumers. In fact, I think he would probably support it.

 

[Southron]

I think you missed the part were I said 60% of Americans were buying BEFORE the "Free Trade" agreements. They didn't just suddenly decide to quit buying American. SOMETHING happened that caused them to buy cheaper product at lower costs. That something was the decline of manufacturing and the loss of jobs across the spectrum. Also, the loss of the American middle-class single income family that came with it.
And this notion that losing these manufacturing jobs frees up labour for more advanced tasks is hog-wash. That is what the government tried to sell to the people in the area that lost their ability to make a living doing what they had done for generations. The local community college (Formally, a technical institute which specialized in furniture construction.) is now turning out nurses and other service sector employees to a population increasingly unable to afford such services. The businesses that have replaced furniture, freed up labour, are currently phone service centers and a Target distribution center. Jobs that pay less than 1/3 of the previous jobs.
The current business plan for Hickory N.C.? The local government has all but given up trying to get new businesses and believe that all will be right if they can convince the retirement community to move here. More low wage jobs for those who's labour has been freed up.

We have the same problem in south-central NC where all the textile companies and other manufacturing plants moved away. Now the county employs the most people. Those jobs were replaced by fast food chains or nothing at all. Our solid manufacturing base is gone. You are lucky to make $10/hr now.

 

[Anti Federalist]

We have the same problem in south-central NC where all the textile companies and other manufacturing plants moved away. Now the county employs the most people. Those jobs were replaced by fast food chains or nothing at all. Our solid manufacturing base is gone. You are lucky to make $10/hr now.

Fool, don't you know that you are bathed in prosperity now, free to spend that $300 bucks a week (take home) on a cornucopia of cheap products and services?

 

[jtstellar]

nvm

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Supporting local economies is a pretty good thing imo & experience

This ^

 

[low preference guy]

As I pointed out earlier in the thread; Dr. Paul is for "free trade" as he is against government making decisions and meddling in our transactions. BUT he still CHOSE to buy domestic because he (dr. paul) wanted to buy american. I don't think he would have any problem whatsoever with non-govt "buy american" advocacy by consumers. In fact, I think he would probably support it.

In some cases he seems to support it, in other cases no, for example, you might recall that when someone asked him why were the products sold by his campaign made in Honduras, he said the free market should decide those things.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

You bunch of Coneheads!

Cheap products offer that cheap thrill of purchase power for people who have no other sense of control about their lives

 

[phill4paul]

We have the same problem in south-central NC where all the textile companies and other manufacturing plants moved away. Now the county employs the most people. Those jobs were replaced by fast food chains or nothing at all. Our solid manufacturing base is gone. You are lucky to make $10/hr now.

Yeah, the textiles are a part of the same problem. Textiles and furniture went hand in hand. But, it was the larger impact on the nation as a whole with regards to the same managed trade agreements that sent this country into tail-spin.
And while these jobs were bleeding away the government just kept telling us that freeing us from this labour would mean higher paying jobs and happier days for everyone. Guess what? It didn't work out.
I'm still waiting on an answer to AF's earlier question......

OK, so if the premise of the OP is true, why are we in the jam we are in?

Because, for all intents and purposes, it is next to impossible to "Buy American" in retail consumer goods.

Therefore, the flood of cheap shit into the marketplace should have ushered in an age of propsperity, unheard of before.

So why are we bankrupt, personally and on a government level, why have real wages stagnated for decades now, why does it take two people working multiple jobs to support a household and why is unemployment, gauged by the metric used up until 1986 hovering around 17-18 percent?

 

[specsaregood]

In some cases he seems to support it, in other cases no, for example, you might recall that when someone asked him why were the products sold by his campaign made in Honduras, he said the free market should decide those things.

fair enough point; but it also his own personal goals go into account there as it is to his benefit to offer the least expensive product and try to get his materials into the hands of as many people as possible while raising campaign funds. in the tshirt example he isn't the consumer but the seller. And I guarantee if there was a great outpouring of demand for american-made campaign clothing he would make sure that was an option.

 

[phill4paul]

For fuck sakes we had to get China to build a bridge and ship it over here because there were no adequate U.S. facilities. Some green car manufacturing company just took American taxpayer monies to set up shop in Finland because there were no adequate American facilities.

 

[low preference guy]

And I guarantee if there was a great outpouring of demand for american-made campaign clothing he would make sure that was an option.

Of course, almost anyone would do that if they can sell more.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

What we need to do is return to the cottage system.

 

[ZanZibar]

So price is the only factor we should take into consideration when we make purchases?

Enjoy those cheap, lead sandwiches John.

The people who didn't catch the lead in the toys were executed by the Chinese government for embarrassment and ruining a business deal. They are trying to kick their QC up higher because they understand the free market. If someone provided a crap product, people will be willing to go elsewhere even if it means that they pay more for it.