Jesus Preached Violence?

J

jth_ttu

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Oct 14, 2009
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I was trying to convince some Christians about Ron Paul and their main concerns were stances on social issues. One example: I explained to them that Jesus was the prince of peace. While he might not have approved of drug use, he would have never supported the use of violence against peaceful individuals just because he didn't agree with their lifestyle. They told me I was wrong and that Jesus stated numerous times throughout the bible that he supported the use of violence. Ive given up on using logic with these people.
 
You don't to convince Christians to support Ron only through Christian correlations.
 
That's bunk. The only example I can think of us when Jesus overturned the money changers' tables and threw a fit in the temple. And he didn't physically attack anyone, even then.

Before he was crucified, when he was arrested Simon Peter went at one of the high priests with a sword. Jesus stopped him (not before he hacked off a servant's ear).
 
Telkandore said:
Just write out a note from God that says they should support Ron Paul and tell them you found it buried in your backyard. Shit gets them every time.
Click to expand...
:D +rep
thanks for making me laugh first thing this morning. We are in an icy blast straight from the Antarctic, probably sounds good to you swelterers!
 
Jesus taught love and forgiveness to all. Especially your enemies. He put it out that HE would deal with unjust on Judgement day. The crusades were by men with their own agendas using the Fathers name. I would like to see any quote by Jesus that says anything but to walk away and pray for the blind, metaphorically speaking as in those whom don't see the truth.
 
Didn't he use violence to cleanse the Temple of gamblers?

Didn't he say "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword"?

Didn't he also say "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Sure he said many conflicting things also, that promoted peace...but Jesus was not the pascifist we are taught he was in Church or school. He was in favor of self defense (precisely why he "died for us", as a pascifist, so we wouldn't have to do so). Many theologians (not necessarily non-Christian either) believe he wasn't even a New Covenant theologian himslef, and they point out, he wasn't a Christian (somewhat obvious, but often overlooked).

If people read the entire Old and New Testament from back to front they'd see several things:

1. No two English versions of the bible are exactly the same.

2. The oldest version of the Bible we get out direct translations from is in Greek, not the original language Jesus spoke (Aramaic or Hebrew).

3. "Jesus" wasn't even his name. This is Greek, and he wasn't Greek. His name is Yeshua. In English Yeshua is "Joshua".

4. Each version changes important translations to fit their narative.

5. Many books over the years were voted out of canon (or more precisely, never allowed in, no matter how widespread the belief).

6. Jesus was voted a deity early on, as it has never, nor was ever, a unanimous belief in Christian tradition that Jesus was Divine (after some of the votes took place, so followed genocide of those who lost the votes).

7. Like every other religious book I've read, it calls for both world peace and death to infidels. It conflicst everywhere any anywhere it can. We are told Jesus was God, and his son at the same time, but then told "the NT God isn't cruel and in favor of genocide like the OT God..."...but it's the same God! Jesus is that God! It makes no sense.


The point is, although I could go on and on, that the Bible is full of man made conflicts of logic all throughout it. This shouldn't be blamed on Jesus even where he is quoted. It is my belief Jesus had a fantastic philosophy, and we should all aspire to his Cynical ethics. Whether you consider him Divine or not, believe in the Ressurection or not, or believe in the Trinity or not is irrelevant...he isn't to blame regardless. The book is man made book, it is no literal word of anything at all. I don't want to offend others, but I'm just being logical (and faith forsakes reason).

I am a constructional Deist, also known as a Christian Deist...I go to Church ocassionally. I am a fan of Jesus Christ. I just want to point out, if they really read their Bibles, they are correct to an extent...I mean you can even say Jesus sinned, as he disobeyed his parents to debate with the elders in the Synagogue at like 12 years old. The Bible is full of conflicts. Jesus wasn't a prince of peace until peace sold for the Church. Until then he was basically a Cynic, like those from the nearby town of Gadarra, a days walk from Nazareth. They preached self responsibility, austerity, non-violence except self defense, and anti-authoritarianism. Jesus himself was pascifist, but he knew full well the outcomes that brought in ancient and brutal world...and advocated for us to defend ourselves.

That being said, he never advocated aggression...unless you believe every man made thing in the bible, and accept it as the word of God. Then, you'll have to contend with certain conflicting quotes, and those who weild these quotes who actually read the book all the way through, not just gotten there understanding of it from the sermons on Sunday their preacher chooses to give.

(I already know, the old "you clearly taking this out of context" fallacy is coming. Anyone ever notice when you find a quote that conflicts, like every Holy book, the faithful (factless) always decry misinterpretation? If any interpretation you don't like is a "misinterpretation", please ignore my comment as "uninformed nonsense" and move along faith unphased...I don't want to debate the facts, please. I'm simply stating a few facts to help the OP understand why folks say this stuff, and moving on my way.)
 
amonasro said:
That's bunk. The only example I can think of us when Jesus overturned the money changers' tables and threw a fit in the temple. And he didn't physically attack anyone, even then.
Click to expand...

This.

He only ever lost His temper with corporatists. And it's high time we followed His example.

raiha said:
We are in an icy blast straight from the Antarctic, probably sounds good to you swelterers!
Click to expand...

Oh, railha. If you can get it in a box I will so pay postage. Want to trade?
 
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Am I on Facebook?
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LOL.

When my dad was alive he would hear someone say some phrase, using Jesus' name in vain, like "Jesus Christ!"

He'd reply "You called?" or "What can I do for you?"

LOL.
 
The violent Jesus:

Kevin Michael "GG" Allin (born Jesus Christ Allin, August 29, 1956 – June 28, 1993) was an American punk rock singer-songwriter, who performed and recorded with many groups during his career. GG Allin is perhaps best remembered for his notorious live performances, which often featured transgressive acts, including coprophagia, self-mutilation, and attacking audience members.[1] AllMusic has called him "the most spectacular degenerate in rock & roll history."[2]

Although more notorious for his stage antics than for his music, he recorded prolifically, not only in the punk rock genre, but also in spoken word, country, and more traditional-style rock. His extremely politically incorrect lyrics, which often covered subjects such as misogyny, pedophilia and racism, polarized listeners and created varied opinions of him within the highly politicized punk community. When questioned about his music and concerts, Allin often replied that he was trying to make rock music "dangerous" again.

Allin's music was often poorly recorded/produced, given limited distribution, and was met with mostly negative reviews from critics.[3][4][5] Despite these factors, Allin maintained a cult following throughout his career, and a fanbase that has greatly expanded since his death. Though Allin promised for several years before his death that he would commit suicide onstage during one of his concerts, he died June 28, 1993 of an accidental heroin overdose.[2]
Click to expand...

GG, the most extreme performance artist in history. He makes Marilyn Manson look like a Spice Girl...lol.
 
The original text was written in hebrew. Greek is a translation just as the KJV is. Its called the Calvin version. It has not changed in its original translation like the new international versions. Another thing you might want to consider is, some hebrew words, there is no english translation for. So, if you want to read the original unedited New testament, you need to learn hebrew. It's the only way to get the whole story. I would also point out, there are several Books of the Gospel the church deemed unnecessary to be published. The Apocalypse of Peter was in consideration for being for being published as the Book of Revelations.
Just another example of men judging God's wisdom. I try not to sin, abide the 10 commandments, treat others as I would like, know Jesus died so I may see Heaven and pray for forgiveness because men threw away half the literature on what I was meant to know, and hope it's enough.
 
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ProIndividual said:
Didn't he use violence to cleanse the Temple of gamblers?

Didn't he say "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword"?

Didn't he also say "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Sure he said many conflicting things also, that promoted peace...but Jesus was not the pascifist we are taught he was in Church or school. He was in favor of self defense (precisely why he "died for us", as a pascifist, so we wouldn't have to do so). Many theologians (not necessarily non-Christian either) believe he wasn't even a New Covenant theologian himslef, and they point out, he wasn't a Christian (somewhat obvious, but often overlooked).

If people read the entire Old and New Testament from back to front they'd see several things:

1. No two English versions of the bible are exactly the same.

2. The oldest version of the Bible we get out direct translations from is in Greek, not the original language Jesus spoke (Aramaic or Hebrew).

3. "Jesus" wasn't even his name. This is Greek, and he wasn't Greek. His name is Yeshua. In English Yeshua is "Joshua".

4. Each version changes important translations to fit their narative.

5. Many books over the years were voted out of canon (or more precisely, never allowed in, no matter how widespread the belief).

6. Jesus was voted a deity early on, as it has never, nor was ever, a unanimous belief in Christian tradition that Jesus was Divine (after some of the votes took place, so followed genocide of those who lost the votes).

7. Like every other religious book I've read, it calls for both world peace and death to infidels. It conflicst everywhere any anywhere it can. We are told Jesus was God, and his son at the same time, but then told "the NT God isn't cruel and in favor of genocide like the OT God..."...but it's the same God! Jesus is that God! It makes no sense.


The point is, although I could go on and on, that the Bible is full of man made conflicts of logic all throughout it. This shouldn't be blamed on Jesus even where he is quoted. It is my belief Jesus had a fantastic philosophy, and we should all aspire to his Cynical ethics. Whether you consider him Divine or not, believe in the Ressurection or not, or believe in the Trinity or not is irrelevant...he isn't to blame regardless. The book is man made book, it is no literal word of anything at all. I don't want to offend others, but I'm just being logical (and faith forsakes reason).

I am a constructional Deist, also known as a Christian Deist...I go to Church ocassionally. I am a fan of Jesus Christ. I just want to point out, if they really read their Bibles, they are correct to an extent...I mean you can even say Jesus sinned, as he disobeyed his parents to debate with the elders in the Synagogue at like 12 years old. The Bible is full of conflicts. Jesus wasn't a prince of peace until peace sold for the Church. Until then he was basically a Cynic, like those from the nearby town of Gadarra, a days walk from Nazareth. They preached self responsibility, austerity, non-violence except self defense, and anti-authoritarianism. Jesus himself was pascifist, but he knew full well the outcomes that brought in ancient and brutal world...and advocated for us to defend ourselves.

That being said, he never advocated aggression...unless you believe every man made thing in the bible, and accept it as the word of God. Then, you'll have to contend with certain conflicting quotes, and those who weild these quotes who actually read the book all the way through, not just gotten there understanding of it from the sermons on Sunday their preacher chooses to give.

(I already know, the old "you clearly taking this out of context" fallacy is coming. Anyone ever notice when you find a quote that conflicts, like every Holy book, the faithful (factless) always decry misinterpretation? If any interpretation you don't like is a "misinterpretation", please ignore my comment as "uninformed nonsense" and move along faith unphased...I don't want to debate the facts, please. I'm simply stating a few facts to help the OP understand why folks say this stuff, and moving on my way.)
Click to expand...

LoL. What on earth are you talking about? You reprised just about every heresy in one post and claimed it as "truth" lol.

I know this is the internet and anyone with an opinion can chime in, but have you ever considered trying to understand the historical Protestant position on these things?
 
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hillbilly123069 said:
The original text was written in hebrew. Greek is a translation just as the KJV is.
Click to expand...

You sure? I recall from a religion course that the original New Testament was written is some version of Greek. I'm almost 100% sure it wasn't Hebrew.
 
acptulsa said:
This.


Oh, railha. If you can get it in a box I will so pay postage. Want to trade?
Click to expand...

Absolutely Acptulsa! I have an icy cold nose, a mohair jacket and a balaclava on. Power too expensive/ oh ok then, i am a skinflint when it comes to outrageous power bills. Oklahoma sizzling no doubt! I can't even imagine how good that would feel right now. Even my dog is looking at me accusingly!
 
Now imagine, if people weren't so bound to this fairy tale, we wouldn't have these types of problems.
 
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