Jesus doesn't put food on my table or fix my leaky pipes.

How could that be? Do you deny the existence of those things? Do you think that the universe is doomed to evils that are beyond God's control?

We don't have to understand how something evil fits into his plan. And I don't think we should try. But we can still take consolation in knowing that there must be a way that they can, and that the reason for that can be beyond our comprehension.

With respect, this is the standard copout for theists who cannot rationalize the Problem of Evil. We are told that God is loving, just, and omnipotent. Some go further and claim that He wills everything that happens. Yet when faced with horrible things that cause untold suffering, instead of admitting that their assumptions must be wrong and should be reexamined, theists simply say, "It's all part of God's plan, and we just don't know." Or in your case, it's that we shouldn't know (is this because of the story of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in Genesis?)

I would prefer to think that God gave man free will and that it is man, not God, who wills such evil things. True, an omnipotent deity could prevent evil, but it's could be that God determined that free will and moral responsibility were more important than the occasions of man-made evil. But it is inconceivable to me how evil can possibly glorify God.
 
It's simple... this is life... not heaven. The mere fact that the great spirit does anything to help us in this learning environment is pretty awesome when you think about it. The amount of energy it takes just to keep things from falling apart is pretty astonishing. When things do go right, that's when you should be thankful... not questioning faith when they go wrong.
 
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For some reason when an atheist states their opinion Christians say they are being mean or persecuting Christians.

If you don't catch the mocking tone in this particular OP (not discussing every single other time), then I'm not sure what to tell you.

* * *

At some point (and this was LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG ago), religion began becoming more about what God can do for the individual. Heavenly concierge, will you get me a bagel toasted --- but not burnt! --- and bedecked in a holy layer of cream cheese? Oh and are there tickets for the game next week? How about the lottery numbers?

I am not going to directly attribute this, that, or the other thing to God. I am, instead, going to notice that the OP is quite unable to see that in order to whine about Jesus not fixing your pipes, you have to have them in the first place. Ingratitude knows no particular religion. I am way better off than a whole lot of people on this planet, in a number of ways. I am worse off than a lot of them as well. It's my choice which of the two I'm going to focus on today.
 
With respect, this is the standard copout for theists who cannot rationalize the Problem of Evil.

That's a good thing. Right? Or should we have God all figured out?

If I understand you correctly, your answer to my third question in that quote is "yes."
 
I personally do not expect or think god can or will put food on my table or fix my pipes. I am fully capable of fixing my own pipes and providing my own food. I know many christians that pray for guidance, give thanks when things go right, thank god when it rains and even attribute the recovery of a very sick person to an absolute miracle. If your pipes are leaking praying is not going to fix them. If people attribute all the good things that happen to god then they must also attribute the bad things. If god brings the rain to water the crops he also brings the rain that floods. What is prayer? Ever listen when the preacher says lets bow our heads? Always seems to be something about talking to god through our lord jesus christ and having to do with god helping the afflicted, the less fortunate or the person that just lost his job or house.
 
I personally do not expect or think god can or will put food on my table or fix my pipes. I am fully capable of fixing my own pipes and providing my own food. I know many christians that pray for guidance, give thanks when things go right, thank god when it rains and even attribute the recovery of a very sick person to an absolute miracle. If your pipes are leaking praying is not going to fix them. If people attribute all the good things that happen to god then they must also attribute the bad things. If god brings the rain to water the crops he also brings the rain that floods. What is prayer? Ever listen when the preacher says lets bow our heads? Always seems to be something about talking to god through our lord jesus christ and having to do with god helping the afflicted, the less fortunate or the person that just lost his job or house.

Everything happens for a reason. You may not understand it now, but there will come a day you will.
 
Jesus never promised to fix your plumbing. What he did promise was much more important but rarely understood - he promised to deliver you from suffering through complete surrender.

...

Funny, Govt promises the same thing, and demands complete surrender. Only difference is they steal from you and your neighbors and will fix your plumbing, in the worst possible way imaginable.

Here is the problem: how many people have completely surrendered to GOVT?
 
With respect, this is the standard copout for theists who cannot rationalize the Problem of Evil. We are told that God is loving, just, and omnipotent. Some go further and claim that He wills everything that happens. Yet when faced with horrible things that cause untold suffering, instead of admitting that their assumptions must be wrong and should be reexamined, theists simply say, "It's all part of God's plan, and we just don't know." Or in your case, it's that we shouldn't know (is this because of the story of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in Genesis?)

I would prefer to think that God gave man free will and that it is man, not God, who wills such evil things. True, an omnipotent deity could prevent evil, but it's could be that God determined that free will and moral responsibility were more important than the occasions of man-made evil. But it is inconceivable to me how evil can possibly glorify God.

You have to understand why God even got the whole ball moving in the first place in order to know why the world is the way it is.This is my opinion,but i feel that God created man because he wanted fellowship with like minded beings.Now he could have created a bunch of robots to forever say " you da man God" ,but that wouldn't be sincere or real.The only way to be able to create a being that sincerely loves you and desires fellowship with you,is that it must have the option too also reject you.

So when God placed Adam and Eve in the garden he knew they would eat the apple and disobey his commandment to not eat it.The purpose though was too allow them too freely decide for themselves too pursue the ways of God or to reject them.Now he doesn't cause none of the ill wills on earth but he does allow them too happen and trys to teach us the value in righteousness thru our suffering in sin.

The worlds ills are caused by either the corruption of man and the curse he caused or Satan, since he does have dominion over this world for a time.Even though God allows these ills he always gives you a solution and thats too come too him for help.He isnt a genie in the bottle though and will not answer any prayer thats asked.He will answer prayers that seek to save your soul.

James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Your looking at the ills and suffering from one side,but theres a another side your not even paying attention too.God isnt concerned with your earthly welfare nearly as much as he is your spiritual welfare.Why would he stop all ills but allow man to be corrupt ,that would defeat the whole reason he made us.

Im sure you've heard the phrase spare the rod,spoil the child

Everyone knows that if you shelter your child from ever having to deal with any trials and spoil them, that when they become an adult they will most likely be self serving and uncompassionate ,not haveing the wisdom and experience to be able too understand or embrace why there is value in the things of righteousness.Seeing and experiencing evil allows you to value and hold tight too what is good.
This life wasn't ment to be the time of all Joy and peace ,but this is the time of learning and to show God what you value.In the end he is just, because he will give everyone what they desire.

If you reject God and want nothing to do with him,then he will give you what you want and cast you away from him too hell when you die.Hell isnt what you most likely think it is .It won't be a place of demons tormenting you ,but far worse.It will be a place devoid of God to where you will then realize and see everything he did for you out of love too raise you up to be righteous and the wonders he had en stored for you if you chose heaven.The gravity of seeing the full reality of Gods love he did for you and the choice you made too reject him is why the Bible says there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,for a eternity without God is a depraved existence with no joy peace or hope.

But hey if thats what you want he will freely let you choose it.
 
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I personally do not expect or think god can or will put food on my table or fix my pipes. I am fully capable of fixing my own pipes and providing my own food. I know many christians that pray for guidance, give thanks when things go right, thank god when it rains and even attribute the recovery of a very sick person to an absolute miracle. If your pipes are leaking praying is not going to fix them. If people attribute all the good things that happen to god then they must also attribute the bad things. If god brings the rain to water the crops he also brings the rain that floods. What is prayer? Ever listen when the preacher says lets bow our heads? Always seems to be something about talking to god through our lord jesus christ and having to do with god helping the afflicted, the less fortunate or the person that just lost his job or house.

A reflective moment between myself and what I personally believe to be out there, mostly a self-fulfilling sort of thing where praying calms me and centers me and clears out a lot of the noise that was going on in the background. It is an extension, a specific kind of meditation to me. It is a time to remember that every burr and thorn and awful thing I've stepped on, and every dark night, has brought me to this precise moment ... a moment with relative safety, the friendship of a few wonderful people, not to mention a variety of spoiled-rotten comforts (climate control springs blissfully to mind), two living parents, a number of people that I have enriched in some small or large way, and the financial ability to help further causes and people I believe in. It is a time to reflect on when so few of those things existed for me, and so many other dark things did.

I'm not sure I'd appreciate things nearly as much now, but that gets into the "everything happens for a reason" argument, and that's not really what I'm saying. I'm saying that I could not be who I am now without the hardships. I would not change them out.
 
Because the sole point of this thread is to mock Jesus Christ and those who follow Him.

Its never okay for Non Christians to mock Christians, Christ, God, or their religion, but it is ALWAYS okay for Christians to mock anyone who does not buy into the Christian way of thinking. It never seems to make any difference (at least from my perspective) if we both come to the same Objective Conclusion, Religion always seems to be the method of validation for whatever the Religious Person comes to the conclusion of.
 
Turn the other cheek.
Its never okay for Non Christians to mock Christians, Christ, God, or their religion, but it is ALWAYS okay for Christians to mock anyone who does not buy into the Christian way of thinking. It never seems to make any difference (at least from my perspective) if we both come to the same Objective Conclusion, Religion always seems to be the method of validation for whatever the Religious Person comes to the conclusion of.
 
No, a faulty view of God would be one that asserts that these horrible things were willed by and glorify Him.

No, a Biblical (and therefore correct) view of God would be that God wills all things for His own ultimately good purpose.

And that is the key to understanding why your questioning of your Creator has no grounds. You have no argument against God's eternal purpose because it is an eternally good purpose. Even the bad things that God decrees are for an ultimately good purpose.
 
If only god were a politician. We could name him bloomberg or obama.
No, a Biblical (and therefore correct) view of God would be that God wills all things for His own ultimately good purpose.

And that is the key to understanding why your questioning of your Creator has no grounds. You have no argument against God's eternal purpose because it is an eternally good purpose. Even the bad things that God decrees are for an ultimately good purpose.
 
Its never okay for Non Christians to mock Christians, Christ, God, or their religion, but it is ALWAYS okay for Christians to mock anyone who does not buy into the Christian way of thinking. It never seems to make any difference (at least from my perspective) if we both come to the same Objective Conclusion, Religion always seems to be the method of validation for whatever the Religious Person comes to the conclusion of.
Actually, that's not okay (if one takes what Christ said about love seriously). Many self-proclaimed Christians would have you believe that, though. :(
 
I think you got that all wrong. Those politicians are Satan's minions.
But the key to understanding why your questioning of your Politician has no grounds. You have no argument against the politicians purpose because it is an eternally good purpose. Even the bad things that the politician decrees are for an ultimately good purpose. They know what is best for us.
 
If you don't catch the mocking tone in this particular OP (not discussing every single other time), then I'm not sure what to tell you.

After re-reading it I do catch it. If I could remove or adjust one or two sentences it wouldn't have been mocking.
 
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