Jerusalem 'Fallout' Updates....

[goldenequity]

BREAKING: Tillerson now says that Jerusalem status "is not final"
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5054027,00.html

Tillerson says the final status of Jerusalem will be decided in a peace deal

Tillerson said it was unlikely the embassy would move anytime soon, saying that it would "probably not (move) next year" either. It is expected to take several years to make the transition, both for security and other reasons.


Tillerson hints at deal to resolve Arab-Israeli conflict in one fell swoop, Moscow waits in wings
https://www.rt.com/news/412430-lavrov-jerusalem-move-tillerson/

The US secretary of state believes he can resolve the decades-old conflict between Israel and its Arab neighbors in a single 'deal of the century.' Moscow is waiting with bated breath to hear the details of the plan, according to its top diplomat.


“Rex [Tillerson]… hinted to me that the United States is expecting to strike a ‘deal of the century,’ which would resolve the Palestinian-Israeli problem in one swoop,” Sergey Lavrov said. “We certainly want to understand how they see this happening.”

 

[Swordsmyth]

BREAKING: Tillerson now says that Jerusalem status "is not final"
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5054027,00.html

Tillerson says the final status of Jerusalem will be decided in a peace deal

Tillerson said it was unlikely the embassy would move anytime soon, saying that it would "probably not (move) next year" either. It is expected to take several years to make the transition, both for security and other reasons.


Tillerson hints at deal to resolve Arab-Israeli conflict in one fell swoop, Moscow waits in wings
https://www.rt.com/news/412430-lavrov-jerusalem-move-tillerson/

The US secretary of state believes he can resolve the decades-old conflict between Israel and its Arab neighbors in a single 'deal of the century.' Moscow is waiting with bated breath to hear the details of the plan, according to its top diplomat.


“Rex [Tillerson]… hinted to me that the United States is expecting to strike a ‘deal of the century,’ which would resolve the Palestinian-Israeli problem in one swoop,” Sergey Lavrov said. “We certainly want to understand how they see this happening.”

The irony is that what the president said does not concede those rights and claims. His recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reflects a reality that it is the seat of Israel’s government and that, for the Jewish state, Jerusalem will always be its capital — there is no other city that could be. For Palestinians, they too no doubt cannot envision any city but Jerusalem as the capital of their state, if and when it emerges from moribund negotiations. The president’s statement does not rule that out: On the contrary, he said that the United States is not taking a position on “the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.” Those questions, he said, “are up to the parties involved.”

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/moving-u-...215434421.html

The Arabs don't want Israel to have any part of Jerusalem, they don't want Israel to exist, THAT is why they are rioting over this.

 

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ation-avoids-some-thorny-questions/932088001/

What country is Jerusalem in? Trump's proclamation avoids some thorny questions

WASHINGTON — President Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel on Wednesday — but on Thursday, State Department officials stopped short of saying whether the U.S. believes that the city Jerusalem is actually in Israel.

That seemingly contradictory policy demonstrates just how difficult it will be for the Trump administration to implement what the president called a "recognition of reality."

Trump's decision to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem upended decades of American foreign policy, delighted conservatives in both countries, ignited protests in the West Bank and cast the future of peace talks into doubt.

But it also left any number of political, diplomatic and practical issues unresolved: How will U.S. passports identify people born in Jerusalem? How will the city appear on maps? What's the future of the Consulate General in Jerusalem? And where will the U.S. pay for and build a new embassy in a city where historic, political and security considerations so often intersect?

All those questions may be beside the point.

"It’s pretty clear the embassy is not going to move to Jerusalem in the foreseeable future, so it’s a moot point for the time being," said James B. Cunningham, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel and a fellow at the Atlantic Council. "The political situation will outrun the technical details of how to move the embassy in the long run."

For now, State Department officials said, there will be no practical change in how the U.S. deals with the status of Jerusalem.

A 2015 Supreme Court decision, for example, upheld the longstanding practice of omitting the country on passports for people born in Jerusalem, effectively giving it a stateless status. That won't change, officials said.

"There has been no change in our policy with respect to consular practice or passport issuance at this time," said acting Assistant Secretary of State David Satterfield on Thursday. U.S. government maps also won't change for now, he said.

"The president’s decision speaks for itself," he said. "He didn’t go beyond that, and I’m not going to go beyond that."

While Israel sees Jerusalem as its undivided and "eternal" capital, the Palestinians also claim east Jerusalem as the capital of their future state. Previous presidents have said that the decision on Jerusalem's capital must come from a negotiated agreement between the Israelis and Palestinians.

But even after Trump's decisive foreign policy pronouncement, State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert declined to say what country Jerusalem is in.

"What country was the president in when he prayed at the Western Wall?" an Associated Press reporter asked.

"We're not taking any position on the overall boundaries. We are recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel," Nauert responded. "There are some questions that you will rightfully have about passports, for example, about maps. Some of those things, we are still working out."

 

[PierzStyx]

There are few Christians left in mideast following Iraqi Freedom and we can't seem to keep even them on our side?

Christians of all people know how American military interventions have only made things worse for them. And there is a minority of Palestinian Christians who are driven from their homes by the Israeli warmongers, too.

 

[TheTexan]

Iraqi force threatens to attack US military in Iraq over Trump’s Jerusalem decision
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...alem-decision/

 

[Danke]

“A 2015 Supreme Court decision, for example, upheld the longstanding practice of omitting the country on passports for people born in Jerusalem, effectively giving it a stateless status. That won't change, officials said.

"There has been no change in our policy with respect to consular practice or passport issuance at this time," said acting Assistant Secretary of State David Satterfield on Thursday. U.S. government maps also won't change for now, he said.”



I don’t follow. How do we issue US passports to non-citizens in Jerusalem?.

 

[RJB]

Great. Maybe the world will kick us out of the Middle East.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

More chaos? Less chance of peace?

...who coulda knowed?

We aren't leaving the ME, we're staying in spades. All that's changed is now USG have completely sold us out to the Israelis. Trump's not playing 5d chess, poker, reverse psychology, or MAGA he's making Kushner rich and using our military to secure his venture project. Fuck em.

That about covers it.

 

[Zippyjuan]

“A 2015 Supreme Court decision, for example, upheld the longstanding practice of omitting the country on passports for people born in Jerusalem, effectively giving it a stateless status. That won't change, officials said.

"There has been no change in our policy with respect to consular practice or passport issuance at this time," said acting Assistant Secretary of State David Satterfield on Thursday. U.S. government maps also won't change for now, he said.”



I don’t follow. How do we issue US passports to non-citizens in Jerusalem?.

Apparently this is for US citizens born in Jerusalem.

http://thehill.com/policy/internati...-allow-american-citizens-born-in-jerusalem-to

Americans born in Jerusalem will still not be able to list "Israel" as their birthplace on passports despite President Trump's move to recognize the city as the Israeli capital.

“At this time, there are no changes to our current practices regarding place of birth on Consular Reports of Birth Abroad and U.S. Passports,” the State Department told The Associated Press on Thursday.

The department policy currently states that American citizens born in Jerusalem can only list the city on their passport as opposed to listing Israel as well, according to the AP.

American citizens born in Jerusalem prior to 1948 are able to list Palestine as the place of their birth.

 

[Danke]

Apparently this is for US citizens born in Jerusalem.

http://thehill.com/policy/internati...-allow-american-citizens-born-in-jerusalem-to

Oh, that makes sense, I just read it wrong.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Oh, that makes sense, I just read it wrong.

It was't very clear. I first thought it meant people travelling to/from Jerusalem and getting their passport stamped.

 

[goldenequity]

not a quiet sabbath morning...

Nasser Atta-
@nasseratta5
Renewed clashes in #Jerusalem today #Trump

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Pope Tawadros II, Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church in Alexandria, announced his refusal to meet with the US Vice President Mike Pence amid his scheduled visit in Egypt this later month.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQm6tk3VoAAwZwR.jpg:large

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Lebanon

Lebanon Christian Pres. Michael Aoun in solidarity rejecting statement....
Jerusalem projected on Cathedral and Mosque in Downtown Beirut

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Turkey Erdogan just called Israel "an occupying state".

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LIVE: Rally against Netanyahu and Trump hits Paris


LIVE: Palestinians protest against Trump in Jerusalem


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Telesur
US and Israel 'Isolated' at UN Security Council Meeting on Jerusalem
https://www.telesurtv.net/english/n...uncil-Meeting-on-Jerusalem-20171208-0020.html

"While there are two parties in this conflict, they are not on a level playing field," Bolivian ambassador Llorenti said. "One is an occupying power, the other is an occupied people.

"One party builds illegal settlements... One party puts a siege on Gaza... One party takes over the water resources and farmlands of the other .... One of the parties engages in forced displacement. Bolivia opposes the unilateral decision of the United States to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel."

Other representatives, including France, Japan, Russia, and Sweden, expressed their dismay at the decision, saying that it would lead to violence and potentially ruin chances at the peace process that President Trump claims to favor.

Egyptian Ambassador Amr Aboulatta said he expected the decision to have a "grave" impact on peace.

=========

Jordan

 

[r3volution 3.0]

This was an entirely orchestrated crisis: another sad episode in the 'clash of civilizations" certain parties here and in Israel have been fabricating for decades. This was bound to create polarization in the region, strengthening both extremes at the expense of moderates, and making compromise less likely - and that is precisely why the neocons/likudniks have been pushing for it (no doubt the ISIS leadership is also pleased). It's just like with the settlement policy, which is less about the scraps of land which are gained than about the political lobby against compromise which is created.

The credibility of all American politicians now requires acknowledging that America is engaged in a great war for survival – “the war against Islam.” Fear of “radical Islamic terrorists” requires our undivided attention. We’re to believe that the ugly and vicious violence of a very small percentage of the 1.7 billion Muslims around the world, without an army, navy, or air force, is on the verge of engulfing America and Western civilization. The claim is that the Western concept of Christianity, liberty, and free markets is threatened. If this is so, it speaks more about the weak support for these values than for the strength of a small group claiming to speak for all of Islam. It may not make much sense, but it provokes the fear required for warmongering.

The popular belief that a gigantic clash of civilizations explains today’s conditions fits well into the propaganda efforts of the neocon inspired American Empire. One cannot deny that a group exists that associates itself with Islam and preaches violence in combination with extreme religious beliefs. Al Qaeda and ISIS do exist. Claiming that they alone are responsible for the great “clash” is purposely misleading. That misunderstanding is required by Western propagandists to gain public support for their wars in the Middle East, and for a continuation of the American Empire. Unfortunately, so far it has worked pretty well.

Fear is the tool used to galvanize a people into supporting war while sacrificing liberty. Exaggerations and propping up groups who falsely claim to represent 99 percent of Muslims, serves the interests of those in the West who want the clash of civilizations for their own selfish purposes. Current US and Western support for ISIS in Syria, even though it’s denied, is designed to remove Assad. This policy is in the tradition of our foreign policy of recent decades. Aligning ourselves with the creation of Hamas and the mujahedin (Taliban) is well documented.

The emphasis on a clash of civilizations is more about ruthless pragmatism than it is of a great battle of two civilizations. Promoters of war must first find or create an enemy to demonize in order to gain the people’s support for stupid and illegal preemptive wars. The Iraq war was built on lies and fearmongering. US leaders, prodded by the neoconservatives, continue to propagandize for a “crusade” against Islam in order to justify rearranging the Middle East according to their desires. Disregarding all previous failures in this effort is not a problem if the people can be convinced that the enemy is grotesque and threatening our way of life.

It’s strange, but 130 people killed in Paris has served the purpose of throwing reason to the wind, and the majority of Americans have become anxious for a showdown with Islam no matter how many lies have to be told and people killed.

If what is said by the neoconservatives about Islam is true, nuking Indonesia would seem logical. Two hundred and three million Muslims could be wiped out rather quickly. What many fail to admit is that ISIS deliberately manipulates Islam to inspire violence by some, which helps them gain recruits for their cause. This is not a reflection of the 1.6 billion Muslims around the world. It’s like claiming that the KKK represents sound Christian theology. Many evangelical Christians support preemptive war in the Middle East, but that doesn’t mean that Christians must give up the notion that, as Jesus said, “Blessed are the Peacemakers.”

Both sides of this huge so-called clash of two civilizations benefit from allowing fringe elements of both religious cultures to support the hypothesis. Both sides need the fear associated with a clash of civilizations to motivate the masses to fight a war that Western leaders have initiated. It may be a hoax, but such a war is still very dangerous and can easily spin out of control.

http://original.antiwar.com/paul/2015/12/06/are-we-in-a-clash-of-civilizations/

 

[Krugminator2]

Israel has a right to exist. Israel can recognize whatever capital they want and the US should recognize what Israel says is their capital.

Rioting and violence is not okay. There should be no appeasement to the animals that surround Israel.

 

[goldenequity]

“We Will Not Serve in Your Army!” Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem Beaten, Arrested for Refusing Draft
http://www.mintpressnews.com/we-wil...em-beaten-arrested-for-refusing-draft/235323/

Orthodox J€ws in New York protest US Jerusalem move



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Greek Orthodox Patriarch Theofilos and heads of local churches ask US president to revoke Jerusalem decision
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2017/12/08/patriarch-churches-trump-jerusalem/

Russian Market
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan and French President Emmanuel Macron spoke over phone, agreed to try to persuade U.S. to reconsider its decision on Jerusalem, @Reuters

Armenia
HIS HOLINESS ARAM I REJECTS THE U.S. RECOGNITION OF JERUSALEM AS THE CAPITAL OF ISRAEL
http://www.armenianorthodoxchurch.org/en/archives/20770

Turkish Assyrians: Jerusalem belongs to 3 faiths, not 1
http://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/turkish-assyrians-jerusalem-belongs-to-3-faiths-not-1-2880157

Asharq Al-Awsat Eng-
Breaking| Jordan FM: We reject Washington's recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

'No Pence-Abbas talks'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42294409
The US vice-president is due to visit the Middle East later this month, but Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' adviser Majdi al-Khaldi said the pair would not be meeting.
"America has crossed all red lines with its latest decisions over Jerusalem," Majdi al-Khaldi said.


EndGameShow-
Egypt: Arab Foreign Ministers Condemn Trump's Jerusalem Decision


Times Square

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Thousands protest against Netanyahu for second week in Tel Aviv
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Th...-Netanyahu-for-second-week-in-Tel-Aviv-517550





AFP news agency-
Israelis take part in the "March of Shame" demonstration to protest against government corruption and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Tel Aviv

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQoU7RbUMAAvzLd.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQoU57KV4AAbz8l.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQoU2M3VoAABS87.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQoU1BwV4AAdWQ_.jpg:large

 

[AZJoe]

Israel has a right to exist. Israel can recognize whatever capital they want and the US should recognize what Israel says is their capital.

Rioting and violence is not okay. There should be no appeasement to the animals that surround Israel.

Israel Palestine has a right to exist. Israel Palestine can recognize whatever capital they want and the US should recognize what Israel Palestine says is their capital.

Bulldozing, confiscating property, theft, raiding crops, poisoning livestock, shooting, kidnapping and shipping people to walled off concentration zones, and other violence is not okay. There should be no appeasement to the animals that surround Israel Palestine.

 

[Swordsmyth]

This needs repeating because all of the propagandists and virtue signalers are distorting the truth:


The irony is that what the president said does not concede those rights and claims. His recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reflects a reality that it is the seat of Israel’s government and that, for the Jewish state, Jerusalem will always be its capital — there is no other city that could be. For Palestinians, they too no doubt cannot envision any city but Jerusalem as the capital of their state, if and when it emerges from moribund negotiations. The president’s statement does not rule that out: On the contrary, he said that the United States is not taking a position on “the specific boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem, or the resolution of contested borders.” Those questions, he said, “are up to the parties involved.”

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/moving-u-...215434421.html

 

[Swordsmyth]

Israel Palestine has a right to exist. Israel Palestine can recognize whatever capital they want and the US should recognize what Israel Palestine says is their capital.

Bulldozing, confiscating property, theft, raiding crops, poisoning livestock, shooting, kidnapping and shipping people to walled off concentration zones, and other violence is not okay. There should be no appeasement to the animals that surround Israel Palestine.

We are not GloboCop, when the Palestinians control a territory and establish a capital then we can recognize it, until then no matter what you think of Israel Jerusalem is their capital.

 

[goldenequity]

https://www.facebook.com/torahjews/videos/1531395573617934/

 

[r3volution 3.0]

We are not GloboCop, when the Palestinians control a territory and establish a capital then we can recognize it, until then no matter what you think of Israel Jerusalem is their capital.

You make it sound like it's a fact that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, like it's a fact that Israel borders the Mediterranean. "Being a capital" is not a physical property of a city. It's not a fact. It's a moral idea, the essence of which is that the Israeli state (and not any present or future Palestinian state) should control Jerusalem. The question is: why should anyone endorse that moral idea? Well, for the people actually responsible for the decision, the reason is that propagating the idea aids Israeli nationalism. For people who have nothing but contempt for nationalism, Israeli or otherwise, it's hard to see any virtue in the idea, unless one positively likes violence., death, and destruction of property.