Jack Hunter: "On Glenn Beck and the Liberty Movement"

Trust is earned, not given, and once revoked well..good luck ever getting it back. Jack needs to learn a thing or two. If anyone thinks Beck is sincere in whatever terrible form of 'libertarianism' he claims to espouse, I have the Brooklyn Bridge to sell you.

Now, you want someone sincere in their beliefs? Try Glenn Greenwald..., but oh no, he's a civil liberties and anti-war guy. can't be seen with him!

But isn't all this "don't trust Beck" talk kind of obtuse? The guy is a talk show host. It's not like he has to marry your daughter. We know that most media anchors are fragile ratings whores, not consistent ideologues, but does that change the fact that a guy is bringing libertarians on his show to speak to a massive, new, largely appreciative audience? Like I don't like Peter Jennings, but would it have been good if he interviewed all of the libertarian congressional candidates last fall & talked to his audience about how great they are? Hate a guy all you want but don't look a gift Mormon in the bedroom.
 
Hey, clever satire of the paranoid and misanthropic position so many people are taking on this. Oh, wait...
I remember the last time Beck became a reborn libertarian. He later went on to endorse Santorum for president. When that failed he endorsed Romney. His job is gain an audience and direct them towards a goal. His goal is not libertarianism. It is what he and his clients stand to profit from at the expense of freedom.
 
I decided to give Beck another chance after in Feb. 22nd show, but he's already screwed it up for me again. Took him less than a week.
 
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I never understood the dogmatism some libertarians embody. I don't mind working with someone I don't see eye to eye with. When I see a new person at a political event I go out of my way to see how I could include this person in the liberty movement instead of nick-picking things to exclude them. Successful political movements are about addition, not subtraction.

Oh, but it is so much more fun to just bitch about how we are perfection in motion and everyone else is an idiot. Plus, it gives us permission to be lazy and not take action.
 
But isn't all this "don't trust Beck" talk kind of obtuse? The guy is a talk show host. It's not like he has to marry your daughter. We know that most media anchors are fragile ratings whores, not consistent ideologues, but does that change the fact that a guy is bringing libertarians on his show to speak to a massive, new, largely appreciative audience? Like I don't like Peter Jennings, but would it have been good if he interviewed all of the libertarian congressional candidates last fall & talked to his audience about how great they are? Hate a guy all you want but don't look a gift Mormon in the bedroom.

Some are looking for a new idol. Beck isn't that, never was and never will be. In fact, I think it's dangerous to be looking for a person to put up on a pedestal.
 
Very true. But Republicans and Democrats seem to be able to get behind candidates and media personages they see as flawed, whereas we cast people out for their transgressions and refuse any help they offer after that. I mean, I don't see a lot of people in the Christian Coalition refusing to participate in the Sean Hannity show because he said xyz about Mike Huckabee in 2006.

What is a forgivable flaw? Abortion? Drugs? Policing the world? Spending? Debt? Borrowing? Gay marriage? Immigration? Borders? Defiling the Bill of rights? All of those seem forgivable. What is the one agenda that is not forgivable?
 
What is a forgivable flaw? Abortion? Drugs? Policing the world? Spending? Debt? Borrowing? Gay marriage? Immigration? Borders? Defiling the Bill of rights? All of those seem forgivable. What is the one agenda that is not forgivable?

Hum. That may be the wrong perspective though. It's not as though we are going to ask this guy to run for office on our behalf.

Ron Paul worked a coalition with Barney flippin Frank on the one issue they agreed on.

If there are any issues that are complete anathema to our base philosophy, Barney Frank has to have nearly all of them.

With Frank, individual drug policy on the singular substance of cannabis was the ONLY position he held that was not already repugnant to the liberty movement.

Why not just put Beck into the same category as Ron Paul put Barney Frank? then we wouldn't have all this angst about which of his views disqualify him.
 
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Hum. That may be the wrong perspective though. It's not as though we are going to ask this guy to run for office on our behalf.

Ron Paul worked a coalition with Barney flippin Frank on the one issue they agreed on.

If there are any issues that are complete anathema to our base philosophy, Barney Frank has to have nearly all of them.

With Frank, individual drug policy on the singular substance of cannabis was the ONLY position he held that was not already repugnant to the liberty movement.

Why not just put Beck into the same category as Ron Paul put Barney Frank? then we wouldn't have all this angst about which of his views disqualify him.

Awesome concept.
 
Hum. That may be the wrong perspective though. It's not as though we are going to ask this guy to run for office on our behalf.

Ron Paul worked a coalition with Barney flippin Frank on the one issue they agreed on.

If there are any issues that are complete anathema to our base philosophy, Barney Frank has to have nearly all of them.

With Frank, individual drug policy on the singular substance of cannabis was the ONLY position he held that was not already repugnant to the liberty movement.

Why not just put Beck into the same category as Ron Paul put Barney Frank? then we wouldn't have all this angst about which of his views disqualify him.

RP and Frank worked on some defense initiatives as well.

But I don't think anyone would disagree with putting Beck in the Barney Frank or Dennis Kucinich category.
 
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Hum. That may be the wrong perspective though. It's not as though we are going to ask this guy to run for office on our behalf.

Ron Paul worked a coalition with Barney flippin Frank on the one issue they agreed on.

If there are any issues that are complete anathema to our base philosophy, Barney Frank has to have nearly all of them.

With Frank, individual drug policy on the singular substance of cannabis was the ONLY position he held that was not already repugnant to the liberty movement.

Why not just put Beck into the same category as Ron Paul put Barney Frank? then we wouldn't have all this angst about which of his views disqualify him.

Works for me.
 
Yes, clearly, seeing how Ron got 20 something % in both Iowa and NH, and was over 20% nationally in Feb of 2012, and that was with GOP ONLY.
One key ingredient to that was Ron running as a Republican, which brought a lot of people into a viable political apparatus instead of toiling outside in the cold pushing on string. I think it was a great teaching tool to political outsiders and the apathetic. It showed them we actually could have considerable impact with the proper implementation and focus. It was wonderful seeing our ideas begin to take root and reverberate nationally and especially in Iowa and NH. I don't think many of us have ever experienced a sense of victory of that before. Maybe you did if you worked on the Goldwater campaign, but other than that it's been lean times for liberty.
 
And of course it has nothing at all to do with first the Luce, then the Murdoch media repeating over and over and over again that third parties are 'throwing your vote away', and everything to do with libertarians driving people away with whips and cattle prods.

Keep repeating and repeating it; maybe if you say it often enough someone somewhere will actually be silly enough to believe you.
It goes beyond that. No third party has won for over 150 years. People are naturally skeptical of them for good reason.
 
I appreciate the advice...I've been in sales for 25+ years. Hitting people over the head to convince them to buy what I'm selling isn't my style!
And sometimes you just have to cut your loses and move on. Going door to door you learn that concept very quickly. Don't spend an hour on one person when you could hit a 100 other households in that time frame.
 
Jack may or may not think Beck is coming around, but when evidence comes forward that it may be happening, then it's just good politics to leave the light on and the door open. For all we know, Beck may actually decide to come in through that door and surprise us all. I wouldn't advise anybody hold their breath, obviously, but this is just good politics, and furthermore it may even work one day.
Agreed 100%. And it working one day might apply to someone else, even if it doesn't work with Beck.
 
Meh, this is why philosophy and politics are two entirely different disciplines. In philosophy it is a cardinal sin to make a pretense of acceptance for someone that holds incompatible beliefs, but in politics it is absolutely required for any kind of victory. While I prefer philosophy over politics by a long way, I recognize that our current fight is in the political realm, and I'm willing to operate there -- distasteful as it is -- because it's either that or stand by helpless and watch the whole thing implode (and taking us smart people with it).

What Jack did was make a political statement that allows for enough commonality that will allow Beck to come on board IF HE EVER SHOULD decide to have a genuine conversion. I don't see what Hunter said as though it were the kind of blanket acceptance that violates philosophical debate, but more as a political structure designed in a strategic fashion that allows for future coalitions as people wake up without offending them so badly that they will hate us even if they DO wake up one day.

It becomes a lot easier to operate in the filthy corrupt and disgusting realm of politics when you can make a real dichotomy between 'philosophical,' and 'political.' What Jack said was political and strategic. Even more, it wasn't even false, it just leaves the light on and the door open if Beck should choose to step through it one day.

Bottom line is, if you want to win the political struggle, then you have to play the political game. There is a place for philosophers, of course, to refine the vision and postulate frameworks for how to implement it, but without political action we'll never be able to obtain a position where the general public can be exposed to the philosophy in a way they can accept.

You need both. Either one hating on the other is counter-productive to all of our goals.
You are hitting these responses to this topic out of the ball park Gunny!! I think you just brilliantly defined the sinkhole we in this liberty movement continually get ourselves trapped in. It also goes to explain the larger Ron Paul/Rand Paul dynamic. Ron Paul focused more in that philosophical sphere to reach people, even though he was running a political campaign. Rand Paul is focusing more in the political realm, even though he has an undeniable philosophical compass guiding him. It's not just a war of ideas we fight, but a war to be heard. I see Rand out there fighting for the bullhorn.
 
Very true. But Republicans and Democrats seem to be able to get behind candidates and media personages they see as flawed, whereas we cast people out for their transgressions and refuse any help they offer after that. I mean, I don't see a lot of people in the Christian Coalition refusing to participate in the Sean Hannity show because he said xyz about Mike Huckabee in 2006.
Going even further with your example. Take Ron Paul going on the Mike Huckabee show from time to time, and that's after they had some pretty testy exchanges during the campaign.
 
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