I've been trying to get through Atlas Shrugged

This thread had me snorting with laughter (semi sorry for the visual folks). Am trying to get through Atlas on audio and good gravy does my mind wander. She is rambling about minutiae and the main character is hard to become emotionally attached to in any significant manner so as to really want to finish. I have restarted the audio so many times as I find my mind wandering again that I almost feel I should buy the written version so at least my eyes must focus but I have been known to have my mind wander that way as well. Thank goodness it isn't just me. Glad to hear it might pick up my interest if I hold on for a bit.

I have not read it, but I had to read Tolkein using a special method. I had to use a piece of paper to underline each sentence as I read it and read each paragraph at least twice.

Great story, but these people certainly could have used better editors.
 
I read AS as a junior in high school (not for school, just independently) a couple years ago. First 400 pages took weeks to get through but after that I finished the rest in about a week. Good book.

I think people get turned off because they THINK Rand is saying "Helping other people is evil! Keep all your money to yourself and lock yourself up and don't care about anyone else!" and so they think "Oh, so she thinks we shouldn't take care of children or old people. Everyone should just live isolated from everyone else." But she's actually saying that people should only invest themselves in people and things they honestly want to. A mother "sacrificing" for her baby is not contradicting Rand's philosophy. The mother WANTS her child to be happy so she does the things in order to make him/her happy. In fact, in AS, during John Galt's speech, he specifically addresses this. People seem to overlook it and draw wrong conclusions about Rand's philosophy.

On the other hand, government forcefully confiscating money to "help" people is not what Rand wants. This sort of sacrifice goes against what individuals want, and so Rand opposes it.

Ayn Rand's attitude towards selfishness was basically this: everyone is self-interested. Getting things for yourself makes you happy. Doing things for other people may also make you happy. These two things are equal, as long as both make you happy. So we're selfish, but that's not a bad thing at all.
 
This thread had me snorting with laughter (semi sorry for the visual folks). Am trying to get through Atlas on audio and good gravy does my mind wander. She is rambling about minutiae and the main character is hard to become emotionally attached to in any significant manner so as to really want to finish. I have restarted the audio so many times as I find my mind wandering again that I almost feel I should buy the written version so at least my eyes must focus but I have been known to have my mind wander that way as well. Thank goodness it isn't just me. Glad to hear it might pick up my interest if I hold on for a bit.
The deliberate flatness/2 dimensionality of the characters is a bother to me as well. Honestly, the narrative is far better than the dialog. I'm only ~3/8 through, though. Looking forward to the good stuff. :D

ETA: I suspect the reason Stef Molyneux rambles the way he does is because he's read too much Rand. ;) :D lolz
 
FWIW ....

The Abridged Atlas Shrugged


02.19.2001

"It sure is hard to find good men now-a-days. I wonder what the hell is going on," Dagny smirked to herself as she entered the towering monolith to capitalism that was the headquarters of Taggart Transcontinental. "There are so few men like Hank Rearden, the man who single handedly invented a new greenish tint metal that is far stronger than steel," she said bursting in on her brother. "There are too many like you, Jim," she mocked.

"Well, if that's the case, you so-not-a-woman-and-I-can't-believe-a-woman-wrote-this, why don't you go redeem yourself by sleeping with him. By being his servile little mistress you'll serve the cause of capitalism far better than you have," Jim mocked.

Dagny smirked in her mocking way. Yes, she thought, she had tried that with another man, and it seemed so right until he, gasp, went to the other side. He became a slacker. Hank. Hank, Hank, Hank. Don't you know you're all I dream about though I don't actually do anything about it until page five-hundred? "I know what I want Jim, but what do you want?"

"Who is John Galt?"

"Don't say that! It's people asking that question that leads me to believe something sinister is happening in society. I think he's the destroyer." She mocked herself silently inside. How could a grown woman think such a thing? Oh, who was she kidding? She knew that women weren't much better than children anyway. Everyone knew that. It was a fluke she had any position in the railroad at all.

"It is I, Francisco d'Anconia, of the oldest most wealthy copper fortune this side of the Atlantic, and don't I want you to know that I'm pissing it all away for a grand reason that I won't tell you!" His perfect physique burst through the door in a mocking manner few could achieve but which he achieved perfectly. He had seen someone do the act before and fail and, after a single try at six months old, he was better at mockingly bursting through doors than anyone on the planet.

"Slacker," Dagny screamed with indignation and a pointed finger.

"Yes Dagny, you silly silly woman, I may seem a slacker to you, but after ten pages of explanation you will know that it is you who slack and it is I who serve a higher cause which will not be explained for another seven hundred pages. Remember, I am a d'Anconia which goes without saying that I know what I am doing," he mocked. He was so perfect at mocking. No man mocked like Francisco. How she wanted to be back in his arms. Were it not for... no! He was a slacker! The very embodiment of slack yet... yet he slacked with purpose. Even that was perfect. No man slacked like Francisco.

"What in capitalism's name is going on here," Hank yelled with bursting anger from the bottom of his manly lungs as he lunged through the door. It wasn't as perfect as Francisco's mockery, no man could touch that, but it was with the kind of power only a capitalist could muster. Dagny fluttered with lust.

"What the hell are you all doing in my office," Jim demanded weekly, the only way a socialist could demand.

"Hank, we must talk," Francisco said in a softly mocking way. Hank's heart fluttered with love he suddenly felt for the man. Even if he was a slacker, could my heart be wrong, Hank asked himself. He reached for Francisco's hand, wanting to hold him close.

"No," Dagny screamed with indignation and a pointed finger. "Please, I want him to take me and show me what a weak little girl I really am! That's what all women want!" Hank looked torn.

"Hey everybody," said a quiet voice from behind Hank. Hank took up most of the doorway with his manly capitalistic bulk. The crowd parted like the sea and a well groomed handsome man with a shock of boyish blond hair stood at the foot of it.

"John, you're not supposed to show up for eight-hundred more pages," Francisco said mockingly.

"Well, I got bored with the wait and figured what the hell. So... who wants to know what this is all about?" John smiled and every man's heart in the room melted. Dagny felt the overwhelming urge to become his servant and to clean up after him. That's what all women wanted after all, she figured.

"I do," Rearden capitalisticly demanded.

"Well, I couldn't deal with any government intervention in business and think that any kind of socialist tendency is kind of a bad idea, so me and my buddies, who all just happen to be the rich, powerful, and industrial, went on strike to bring the world to its knees." John said as he tossed back his blond hair with a light twitch of his head.

"For what purpose," Jim nearly cried. Socialists are such babies, thought John mockingly.
"Well, I don't like having to pay taxes or think about anything other than business. And, because I'm such an inexplicably charismatic guy, I figured I'd just get my industrialist buddies to back me," John said with a hint of mockery.

"Look," Jim sobbed. "The world is crumbling without you guys!"

"Well, once it's toast, we'll get to work but until then, who's up for some skiing in Colorado?"
http://www.spudworks.com/article/66/2/
 
Oh my goodness, I am finally at the Galt monologue and this has to be one of the most obnoxious treatments I have received as a reader. As though I am too stupid to have understood the examples put forth throughout this book, I am to be subjected to a 3 hour monologue on self love? I have made it through about an hour's worth before I looked it up to find out how much longer I am to be subjected to being scolded. Three hours!?! Wth?

This book has had brief moments (as in 3 that I can recall pausing long enough to consider decent points) worthy to be considered pearls. Yeah, I get why people call her a blowhard. The contemptuous attitude by which the author approaches weaving a story would have her in out on the rails by anyone who has any self respect. The monologue is the last straw. It is as if I am being beat over the head with an iron skillet over and over and over again....

And as a side note, the audible version, ugh. I think the reader thinks most of the minor characters come from South America. So the Audible reading makes the book even more mind numbing as though that were even possible.
 
Irony. As I am still sitting here suffering through this monologue this morning and am considering her attack on philosophers and looters, imo, Rand, in her utopia, would be a looter starving on the fringes of a productive society preaching to a rag tag band of narcissists complaining that she is being shunned for her brilliance and not because she sucks at writing. That is to say unless her purpose is to be paid by the word and completely insult the intelligence of the reader that holds on through her rambling, egotistical rants in search for a pearl. My ears are numb and my mind keeps drifting.
 
Oh my goodness, I am finally at the Galt monologue and this has to be one of the most obnoxious treatments I have received as a reader. As though I am too stupid to have understood the examples put forth throughout this book, I am to be subjected to a 3 hour monologue on self love? I have made it through about an hour's worth before I looked it up to find out how much longer I am to be subjected to being scolded. Three hours!?! Wth?

This book has had brief moments (as in 3 that I can recall pausing long enough to consider decent points) worthy to be considered pearls. Yeah, I get why people call her a blowhard. The contemptuous attitude by which the author approaches weaving a story would have her in out on the rails by anyone who has any self respect. The monologue is the last straw. It is as if I am being beat over the head with an iron skillet over and over and over again....

And as a side note, the audible version, ugh. I think the reader thinks most of the minor characters come from South America. So the Audible reading makes the book even more mind numbing as though that were even possible.

Well, I can't imagine what it's like on audio, but she definitely beats you over the head with her point! Especially, if you already understand her point - then it just reads like droning. I guess I always kept in my mind what she was trying to get across to the uninitiated. It was a little easier to understand why she took so many angles.

By the way, I've always found The Fountainhead to be a more enjoyable read.
 
I tried to get through it twice and gave up. The last attempt was two years ago. Life is too short to get preached at with bad literature.

Besides being over tedious, the characters are some of the most 1 dimensional characters ever, no depth and very predictable, yet she feels compelled to use over 1000 pages to make it clear how shallow most of them are.

The message, I had heard before many times in articles, but for some reason Rand feels she needs to beat me over the head with them constantly. Really I only need to be told once most of the times. On a dense day I may need a reminder once but no more than twice :)

I also think her message is outdated. In the 40s and 50s, the government may have been the real threat to businesses. However, nowadays, corporations are the ones who run the government and put small businesses out of business: Insurance companies forcing people to buy their over-priced garbage with Obama/Romney/Gingrich Care. The Military Industrial Complex giving us eternal war for their profit. The medical model of today... etc. I know this wasn't Ayn Rand's vision, but I really couldn't stomach her views on lack of morality and profit in view of modern corporatism.

When I quit reading the last time, it was at the part where the main character was enjoying the only good hamburger in a long time. Of course the good burger could only be made by a former CEO of a mega international corporation.

That was too much. Too me it reminded me of the way LEOs divide us into wolves, sheepdogs and sheep. In her view, I felt that she saw the world divided in the same way Wolves (government), sheepdogs (big shot CEOs), and sheep (anyone who does not aspire to be a CEO.) Sometimes there is a 4the category: Dogs who aren't sheep, aren't wolves and have absolutely no use for sheepdogs (or wolves or sheep for that matter.)

I could be way off in my analysis. I take no offence if anyone disagrees. I only read about a third of it, but I feel no guilt for having given up on the book. I know many people smarter than me who gave up on it as well. There is no shame in finding a better way to enlighten yourself than spending 1000+ pages trudging through that swamp when you can read a 2 page article and get the same info.
 
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I also think her message is outdated. In the 40s and 50s, the government may have been the real threat to businesses. However, nowadays, corporations are the ones who run the government and put small businesses out of business: Insurance companies forcing people to buy their over-priced garbage with Obama/Romney/Gingrich Care. The Military Industrial Complex giving us eternal war for their profit. The medical model of today... etc. I know this wasn't Ayn Rand's vision, but I really couldn't stomach her views on lack of morality and profit in view of modern corporatism.
I may have been with you until you got to this point. This is completely wrong. The book goes on and on about the problems with cronyism. Perhaps you should have continued reading, or at least understood what you were reading up to the point where you quit. It is very relevant to the system we have in place today - where businesses that provide real value are crowded out by regulations and laws that benefit the well-connected.

Back to an earlier point about the mind wandering... I think that is by design. Which is why listening to the book on tape or watching a movie doesn't give you the same experience. I remember reading Emerson. Emerson on tape would be completely useless. Each sentence is a construct in deep philosophical thinking. Without pausing and allowing the mind to consider the points, the true beauty is missed.

I'm not comparing Rand to Emerson - there is clearly an intellectual gap there - but some of the same elements exist in the way a reader must approach their work.

I could be way off in my analysis.
Yes. You are.
 
Yes. You are.

That's fine, but a lot of times I'll give an article a few paragraphs to make a pertinent point. I was generous and gave Ayn a few hundred pages, twice. I'll read an abridge version next time :)
 
Well, I can't imagine what it's like on audio, but she definitely beats you over the head with her point! Especially, if you already understand her point - then it just reads like droning. I guess I always kept in my mind what she was trying to get across to the uninitiated. It was a little easier to understand why she took so many angles.

By the way, I've always found The Fountainhead to be a more enjoyable read.

Victory! I finished the monologue!

Good to hear about The Fountainhead as I bought that at the same time but had not started it yet.

Now as for her preaching to the uninitiated, for those who do get it fairly early on, one is left wondering if the person listening to the broadcast did not understand after 30 minutes into the speech, after all they had experienced at this point, would they not be dead weight to the society she was seeking to establish? So what is the purpose of such a long and repetitive rant? As the reader, I am screaming at the character, "let it go!" It is much like the tension she attempts to create with Dagny and her unwillingness to let go of the world she lives in. The plot itself then seems inauthentic and hypocritical when the main character is such a martyr to futility (even when you understand the vision is for something bigger than Galt's utopia).

Meh. I guess I feel a huge sense of disappointment (and self loathing while questioning my own intelligence?) at feeling like a bit of a sucker for choosing to suffer through this much of the book and still not getting what all the hype is about. I cannot stand Dagny. For all her supposed brilliance, I still find her to be a flat character and her martyrdom just comes across whiny to me. Oh well. Guess it just isn't my cup of tea...
 
I may have been with you until you got to this point. This is completely wrong. The book goes on and on about the problems with cronyism. .

One more thing, to be fair to Ayn Rand, I'm most likely judging her not by her opinions, but rather her followers. The second time I attempted to get through Atlas Shrugged was at the time when the current wars and the bank bailouts were constantly in the headlines ( around 2008) and her most vocal fans in the media were neocons.

At that time, a libertarian, (maybe Stossel?) made a claim that if private corporations ran the wars based on profit, we would have won by now. This was at the time Blackwater, Haliburton, etc. were making a killing (in more ways than one) overseas. Glenn Beck made a statement about it was better to have Goldman Sacs help with the bailouts, because they were a private company...

With this as the backdrop, I developed a more cynical view of her with each page of that book. I'll take you at your word that I got the wrong impression of her. I'll also torchbearer's suggestions and look more into her articles, but I'm not touching that book again.
 
Reading Rand is like archaeology. It takes a lot of faith there's something in there to dig all the way down to it.

Frank Herbert she ain't. Neither is she Douglas Adams...

Douglas Adams in Restaurant at the End of the Universe said:
... "I mean, I couldn't help noticing," said Ford, also taking a sip, "the bodies. In the hold."

"Bodies?" said the Captain in surprise.

Ford paused and thought to himself. Never take anything for granted, he thought. Could it be that the Captain doesn't know he's got fifteen million dead bodies on his ship?

The Captain was nodding cheerfully at him. He also appeared to be playing with a rubber duck.

Ford looked around. Number Two was staring at him in the mirror, but only for an instant: his eyes were constantly on the move. The first officer was just standing there holding the drinks tray and smiling benignly.

"Bodies?" said the Captain again.

Ford licked his lips.

"Yes," he said, "All those dead telephone sanitizers and account executives, you know, down in the hold."

The Captain stared at him. Suddenly he threw back his head and laughed.

"Oh they're not dead," he said, "Good Lord no, no they're frozen. They're going to be revived."

Ford did something he very rarely did. He blinked.

Arthur seemed to come out of a trance.

"You mean you've got a hold full of frozen hairdressers?" he said.

"Oh yes," said the Captain, "Millions of them. Hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, management consultants, you name them. We're going to colonize another planet."

Ford wobbled very slightly.

"Exciting isn't it?" said the Captain.

"What, with that lot?" said Arthur.

"Ah, now don't misunderstand me," said the Captain, "we're just one of the ships in the Ark Fleet. We're the 'B' Ark you see. Sorry, could I just ask you to run a bit more hot water for me?"

Arthur obliged, and a cascade of pink frothy water swirled around the bath. The Captain let out a sigh of pleasure.

"Thank you so much my dear fellow. Do help yourselves to more drinks of course."

Ford tossed down his drink, took the bottle from the first officer's tray and refilled his glass to the top.

"What," he said, "is a 'B' Ark?"

"This is," said the Captain, and swished the foamy water around joyfully with the duck.

"Yes," said Ford, "but ..."

"Well what happened you see was," said the Captain, "our planet, the world from which we have come, was, so to speak, doomed."

"Doomed?"

"Oh yes. So what everyone thought was, let's pack the whole population into some giant spaceships and go and settle on another planet."

Having told this much of his story, he settled back with a satisfied grunt.

"You mean a less doomed one?" prompted Arthur.

"What did you say dear fellow?"

"A less doomed planet. You were going to settle on."

"Are going to settle on, yes. So it was decided to build three ships, you see, three Arks in Space, and ... I'm not boring you am I?"

"No, no," said Ford firmly, "it's fascinating."

"You know it's delightful," reflected the Captain, "to have someone else to talk to for a change."

Number Two's eyes darted feverishly about the room again and then settled back on the mirror, like a pair of flies briefly distracted from their favourite prey of months old meat.

"Trouble with a long journey like this," continued the Captain,"is that you end up just talking to yourself a lot, which gets terribly boring because half the time you know what you're going to say next."

"Only half the time?" asked Arthur in surprise.

The Captain thought for a moment.

"Yes, about half I'd say. Anyway - where's the soap?" He fished around and found it.

"Yes, so anyway," he resumed, "the idea was that into the first ship, the 'A' ship, would go all the brilliant leaders, the scientists, the great artists, you know, all the achievers; and into the third, or 'C' ship, would go all the people who did the actual work, who made things and did things, and then into the `B' ship - that's us - would go everyone else, the middlemen you see."

He smiled happily at them.

"And we were sent off first," he concluded, and hummed a little bathing tune.

The little bathing tune, which had been composed for him by one of his world's most exciting and prolific jingle writer (who was currently asleep in hold thirty-six some nine hundred yards behind them) covered what would otherwise have been an awkward moment of silence. Ford and Arthur shuffled their feet and furiously avoided each other's eyes.

"Er ..." said Arthur after a moment, "what exactly was it that was wrong with your planet then?"

"Oh, it was doomed, as I said," said the Captain, "Apparently it was going to crash into the sun or something. Or maybe it was that the moon was going to crash into us. Something of the kind. Absolutely terrifying prospect whatever it was."

"Oh," said the first officer suddenly, "I thought it was that the planet was going to be invaded by a gigantic swarm of twelve foot piranha bees. Wasn't that it?"

Number Two span around, eyes ablaze with a cold hard light that only comes with the amount of practise he was prepared to put in.

"That's not what I was told!" he hissed, "My commanding officer told me that the entire planet was in imminent danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat!"

"Oh really ..." said Ford Prefect.

"Yes! A monstrous creature from the pit of hell with scything teeth ten thousand miles long, breath that would boil oceans, claws that could tear continents from their roots, a thousand eyes that burned like the sun, slavering jaws a million miles across, a monster such as you have never ... never ... ever ..."

"And they made sure they sent you lot off first did they?" inquired Arthur.

"Oh yes," said the Captain, "well everyone said, very nicely I thought, that it was very important for morale to feel that they would be arriving on a planet where they could be sure of a good haircut and where the phones were clean."

"Oh yes," agreed Ford, "I can see that would be very important. And the other ships, er ... they followed on after you did they?"

For a moment the Captain did not answer. He twisted round in his bath and gazed backwards over the huge bulk of the ship towards the bright galactic centre. He squinted into the inconceivable distance.

"Ah. Well it's funny you should say that," he said and allowed himself a slight frown at Ford Prefect, "because curiously enough we haven't heard a peep out of them since we left five years ago ... but they must be behind us somewhere."

He peered off into the distance again.

Ford peered with him and gave a thoughtful frown.

"Unless of course," he said softly, "they were eaten by the goat ..."

"Ah yes ..." said the Captain with a slight hesitancy creeping into his voice, "the goat ..." His eyes passed over the solid shapes of the instruments and computers that lined the bridge. They winked away innocently at him. He stared out at the stars, but none of them said a word. He glanced at his first and second officers, but they seemed lost in their own thoughts for a moment. He glanced at Ford Prefect who raised his eyebrows at him.

"It's a funny thing you know," said the Captain at last, "but now that I actually come to tell the story to someone else..."
 
I may have been with you until you got to this point. This is completely wrong. The book goes on and on about the problems with cronyism. Perhaps you should have continued reading, or at least understood what you were reading up to the point where you quit. It is very relevant to the system we have in place today - where businesses that provide real value are crowded out by regulations and laws that benefit the well-connected.

Back to an earlier point about the mind wandering... I think that is by design. Which is why listening to the book on tape or watching a movie doesn't give you the same experience. I remember reading Emerson. Emerson on tape would be completely useless. Each sentence is a construct in deep philosophical thinking. Without pausing and allowing the mind to consider the points, the true beauty is missed.

I'm not comparing Rand to Emerson - there is clearly an intellectual gap there - but some of the same elements exist in the way a reader must approach their work.

Yes. You are.

She touches on the subject of crony capitalism but doesn't explore it to any significant depth initially such that as the reader, I can relate to the impression RJB was getting, especially since her longer discussion on the matter doesn't come until after the section of the book he stopped reading ( and by after I mean well after-like some 20 hours later of reading). In no way would I recommend reading further to get the pearl unless one was dedicated to finish the book for the sake of marking it off as read.

I dislike the attitude she takes that the only people of worth to make a simple item of quality are those who apparently can run a corporation and that a simple minded person is insignificant in all pursuits. It seemed unrealistic and unnatural to believe that the brilliant engineer makes something fabulous in a completely unrelated field is the best person to make a burger, even if she makes the point that the job is beneath his skill set. Those type of folks are the exception and not the rule in my experience.

And the portions I have pulled up to read online did make me realize I was tuning out some of the details because of the difference of concentration when using an Audible book. I am more of a visual learner in the first place so not a big surprise. However, if a book lacks depth in the characters personality, such that I fail to feel some sense of sympathy or connection, I will read it and find myself having to circle back and reread. The monologue would have likely set me over the edge if I were reading it rather than listening.:D
 
She touches on the subject of crony capitalism but doesn't explore it to any significant depth initially such that as the reader, I can relate to the impression RJB was getting, especially since her longer discussion on the matter doesn't come until after the section of the book he stopped reading ( and by after I mean well after-like some 20 hours later of reading).

Also the only ones involved in crony capitalism in the book were the failed CEOs who were seeking government help to help others. It implied that those who were truly driven by only profit and not morality, didn't seek government help-- That's just not the case in today's reality.

BTW, I'm mostly posting to ease the guilt of fellow libertarians who never finished the book. For years, I felt like I committed some odd mortal sin against the liberty movement by not finishing the book. Free yourselves from guilt my brothers and sisters! :)
 
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I enjoyed it overall, but Rand inserted a virulently anti-religion rant somewhere towards the end that kind of came out of left field. That was irritating.

Yes, Christian altruism is precisely identical to communist tyranny according to Rand. Lots of good stuff in that book, but that's absurd.
 
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For weeks. I keep reading books in between. What's the secret to staying focused? It's become almost a personal vendetta now. I must finish it. I took a second degree in English and read so many books. The only one I've never been able to finish is Moby Dick. That book blew. I don't want to add to that list.

Hey now. I happen to be directly related to Herman Melville.
 
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