Its raining mea culpa in liberty land.

[derek4ever]

Rand did excellent! I saw him from the opening and he seemed confident and well focused. He scored major points by stopping rubes and chump and i think he needs to focus on cruise, because i see him as THE hurdle that separates rand from the top. Rand just needs to continue to prove why his ideas are common sense. Expect to see good quality stuff!!

 

[eleganz]

I really don't think that's true at all. His strategy of being an establishment moderate failed, so he reverted to the Rand of 2010-2012.

Just earlier this year he was trying to increase defense spending in the Senate. [Source] And last night he was arguing against increasing defense spending.

After I donated last night, someone I really like and respect on this forum sent me a message "welcome back." I'd also extend that message to Rand Paul... welcome back to your roots. I bet it feels good.

Earlier this year, Rand proposed and voted to increase military spending while balancing the budget when Rubio and Cruz proposed and voted to increase military spending with the deficit (a large one).

Last night he argued for being a conservative, he talked about military spending being OK as long as you do it wisely and conservatively (not liberally). Rand continues to talk about raising military spending but being self-disciplined and learning to cut in other areas rather than going further into debt.

Don't just look for the things you want to see to prove our point. Im pretty sure I gave you +rep for donating and Im still down to say THANKS for seeing the light but you didn't donate to a new Rand. You donated to a Rand that got a good opportunity.

Why can't we talk about the federal reserve?

Nobody in this thread is trying to take that away from you.


Regardless, I'm glad CPU'd posted this, it really goes to prove the point that Rand has not changed.

Asked about his campaign, and whether it could be improved, he said: “I give the same speech I gave four years ago, with a little bit of variety. But I’m not a believer that really we’re doing anything wrong or made a misstep.

“All the stories that say: ‘Oh, his campaign sucks, that’s why he’s doing poorly’ … not really. It has nothing to do with my campaign. It has nothing to do with me, really. It may mean people are liking the more bombastic message, but that’s just not me.

“I’m giving the same message as when I was higher in the polls.”

 

[jmdrake]

He always says what he's going to do before the debate. His presentation style did not change, he is the same Rand the only difference is the conditions that allowed his style to shine in contrast with others.

Also when he took down Trump, it wasn't with style, he just happened to know something about the TPP that the others didn't know, or didn't think about mentioning.

More time definitely raises your chances of having great conditions for a great moment but more time does not define you doing better or worse.

The type of questions you're asked, the tone and substance of the question as well as how you respond and how others respond to you dictate the type of success you're going to have in how others perceive your response. Theres so many factors that go into what constitutes as a great debate moment but one of them is not, "the campaign changed".

The campaign is constantly changing for better and worse, its called learning. Rand doesn't change, his message stays the same and his persona is the same.

I'm confused. Is the campaign changing or is it not changing? At first you said:

The campaign didn't do anything and Rand didn't change, he has always been the same. The only ones changing are those that RAN when the town was attacked and RAN BACK when the alcohol flowed.

Here's the real deal. Rand is back on message. I posted about that before the debate after reading Rand's email. It was clear he was going after Rubio and tying that to Hillary. I said a week before that's what he should do. Now I doubt Rand read my posts here and came to that conclusion. I think it was just the obvious thing to do. Glad Rand did the obvious and quit attacking Trump over silly stuff like whether he was going to run third party or why was he being a bully and instead went after Trump on substance. Great. Wonderful. Some of the constructive criticism that Rand was getting was just that. Constructive. Glad he's learning and improving. So...what do I need to do a mea cupla about?

 

[afwjam]

So...what do I need to do a mea cupla about?

You must pledge your unwavering support in mind, body and spirit to the Rand Paul presidential campaign. You must not criticize or form any dissenting options of said campaign. Your support must be 100% or not at all, supporting Rand sometimes when he says things you like and not other times when the things he says you don't like is treason and will be dealt with harshly. Rand Paul is the "one true path to Liberty" in all his sometimes seemingly varying positions. Ask not what you can do comrade, you know your place, fall in line or face the "consequences"

 

[cajuncocoa]

I really don't think that's true at all. His strategy of being an establishment moderate failed, so he reverted to the Rand of 2010-2012.

<snip>

I'd also extend that message to Rand Paul... welcome back to your roots. I bet it feels good.

I was just getting ready to post something similar. No mea culpas here. Rand finally said what I've wanted him to say. I hope he continues down this path, and I hope it's not too late.

 

[Badger Paul]

Actually nothing has changed, yet. When Rand tops the polls and wins actual victories instead of debates, then we can talk. But I would argue that Rand did change, that he started to hit on the themes which created the base for him to run on in the first place and created his career on top of it. Maybe he started taking campaigning for the White House seriously. Maybe he changed because he started to have fun and smiled a little more and stayed after events and talked to voters one-on-one and in small groups instead acting this was all a burden and a pain in the ass to him. News flash: Voters don't support candidates who don't want the job.

All I've asked from Rand himself, not the campaign or his supporters who are doing their jobs as they're supposed to, is to show the same commitment to the cause as they are and yes as his father did. That's all. That's where the energy comes from. Without that, there is no energy. People alone cannot make up for it, the candidate has to do it. I didn't see the debate or the highlights yet but I can imagine if Rand did well (and lots of people are saying so not just his bots) it's because he looked engaged and looked confident and relaxed, not like he had a cattle prod shoved up his ass or like he was too good to be on the same stage with a bunch of clowns (which he is but you have to fake it). If that's the case, then hopefully the poll numbers will finally start show it. But don't say people were wrong to have misgivings as to way things were going, especially when you're at two percent in the polls. You're there for a reason and if Rand is at top of the polls, he'll be there for a reason also.

 

[eleganz]

You must pledge your unwavering support in mind, body and spirit to the Rand Paul presidential campaign. You must not criticize or form any dissenting options of said campaign. Your support must be 100% or not at all, supporting Rand sometimes when he says things you like and not other times when the things he says you don't like is treason and will be dealt with harshly. Rand Paul is the "one true path to Liberty" in all his sometimes seemingly varying positions. Ask not what you can do comrade, you know your place, fall in line or face the "consequences"

I'm curious why you're so offended by my post, if it has nothing to do with you, why does it make you so emotional?

What is Rand saying today that is different from what he has been saying?

And why did you blame me from not letting you call out the FED? When I did no such thing? Are you crazy?

I was just getting ready to post something similar. No mea culpas here. Rand finally said what I've wanted him to say. I hope he continues down this path, and I hope it's not too late.

What you wanted Rand to say and what Rand has always said is a very different thing. Just because he didn't have a chance to say it on a debate stage in the way that you want means that he has come crawling back to the liberty base?

So what if he didn't have that exchange with Rubio on fiscal conservatism and didn't get as much momentum? Would he have been a failure again in your eyes?

 

[Feelgood]

A mis-leading mea culpa fallacy? Can you source any of these alleged quotes from the first post? I mean just because Rand did well in one debate, does not mean everyone is suddenly having this change of heart.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, doesnt mean it is working or we should have more faith in it. I was quite happy to see Rand do well in a debate, better than I have seen him in the past debates. Tossed a little more $$$ into his bank as a result. However, outside these forums, there are not that many people as excited about Rand. Unless you're completely delusional, you would see it is all Cruz and Rubio getting pumped right now.

The reality is, unless these *rigged* poll numbers turn around, this great performance will be long forgotten by weeks end. The media sets the narrative, not the hopefuls in Ron Paul's Forums.

 

[cajuncocoa]

What you wanted Rand to say and what Rand has always said is a very different thing. Just because he didn't have a chance to say it on a debate stage in the way that you want means that he has come crawling back to the liberty base?

So what if he didn't have that exchange with Rubio on fiscal conservatism and didn't get as much momentum? Would he have been a failure again in your eyes?

You know, eleganz.....it might be a good idea right about now to stop attacking the few of us who are still here, supporting Rand. I didn't say he was a "failure," but he hasn't been doing as well in the polls as we would have wanted. After last night he has a chance to (maybe) resurrect his campaign. There's a reason for this: last night, his message was different. He returned to his roots, as has been mentioned in this thread. That may be hard for you to hear, but it's the truth.

 

[eleganz]

Here's the real deal. Rand is back on message. I posted about that before the debate after reading Rand's email. It was clear he was going after Rubio and tying that to Hillary. I said a week before that's what he should do. Now I doubt Rand read my posts here and came to that conclusion. I think it was just the obvious thing to do. Glad Rand did the obvious and quit attacking Trump over silly stuff like whether he was going to run third party or why was he being a bully and instead went after Trump on substance. Great. Wonderful. Some of the constructive criticism that Rand was getting was just that. Constructive. Glad he's learning and improving. So...what do I need to do a mea cupla about?

Here's the real deal:

Rand has always had the same message. He's always maintained that military spending can be raised while offsetting in other areas, he even proposed and voted for this. He's always maintained (since this Syrian issue started) that we should not back no fly zones in this manner and that it is dumb.

On Trump, Rand still hits Trump hard when he is asked whether it is on the issues or whether Trump is a sideshow and a bully, you don't need a reminder on this because you already know.

There is no magic point where Rand suddenly changed, he's always maintained positions that we liked that either turned off the base or did nothing to attract their love over others.

Before the last debate Rand stated what he would do too and that debate was bad for him and everyone here was not shy about showing how disappointed they were in him, as if he were not liberty enough, versus the fact that he just didn't get a good moment.

Last night Rand got a great moment and so many are claiming because he came back to his roots, that is just so ridiculous. Everything he said last night has been an accumulation of positions that he's taken from the beginning and maintained until now.

 

[eleganz]

You know, eleganz.....it might be a good idea right about now to stop attacking the few of us who are still here, supporting Rand. I didn't say he was a "failure," but he hasn't been doing as well in the polls as we would have wanted. After last night he has a chance to (maybe) resurrect his campaign. There's a reason for this: last night, his message was different. He returned to his roots, as has been mentioned in this thread. That may be hard for you to hear, but it's the truth.

If I attacked you in my last post, point it out and I'll apologize.

Here is the post in question for your clarity:

What you wanted Rand to say and what Rand has always said is a very different thing. Just because he didn't have a chance to say it on a debate stage in the way that you want means that he has come crawling back to the liberty base?

So what if he didn't have that exchange with Rubio on fiscal conservatism and didn't get as much momentum? Would he have been a failure again in your eyes?

Now I'm going to ask you a question and I hope you don't misconstrue it as an attack:

Which positions did Rand take last night was a position that he didn't take before on or off the debate stage?

 

[nikcers]

Rand delivered, that's all it comes down to. He hasn't said anything that he hasn't been saying since he entered the race. To most of the electorate it's not what you say; its how you say it and not only did Rand have good delivery but he brought real substance to the debate.

 

[65fastback2+2]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/09/rand-paul-polls-donald-trump-ben-carson

100% all of this

 

[Badger Paul]

Just saw some of the highlight videos. Rand looked great. The moderators gave actually gave the candidates time to talk and mix things up and he's better in that format. Too bad a I missed it because I would have been cheering his lines just like I did for his father.

 

[phill4paul]

I appear to have rubbed some the wrong way. Its ok thats what I meant to do.

Yea, you! That's usually the best way to affect consensus.

 

[William Tell]

Lol, guess you ruffled some feathers, eleganz. I five starred your thread earlier, but it didn't hold.

 

[TheTexan]

I love election season. The drama, the suspense, the intrigue!

 

[cajuncocoa]

If I attacked you in my last post, point it out and I'll apologize.

Here is the post in question for your clarity:


Now I'm going to ask you a question and I hope you don't misconstrue it as an attack:

Which positions did Rand take last night was a position that he didn't take before on or off the debate stage?

eleganz, I didn't say you attacked me. Are you having reading comprehension problems tonight?

I said you're attacking "the few of us who are still here, supporting Rand"....it's your attitude, taunting... intentionally putting those of us still here, supporting Rand, on the defensive (if it's not your intention, what's the point of the thread?)...that's how you're coming off in this thread.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Now I'm going to ask you a question and I hope you don't misconstrue it as an attack:


Which positions did Rand take last night was a position that he didn't take before on or off the debate stage?

To answer your question, it's not so much a position he took that he didn't have before. It's that he wasn't communicating it before. In fact, he spent a good deal of time on the campaign trail over the past couple of years trying to play ball with the GOP establishment (and we were told he had to do this, be patient, it will all work out, it's a marathon not a sprint, etc.) Please don't tell me you don't remember all of those conversations on this site.

 

[carlton]

If I attacked you in my last post, point it out and I'll apologize.

Here is the post in question for your clarity:


Now I'm going to ask you a question and I hope you don't misconstrue it as an attack:

Which positions did Rand take last night was a position that he didn't take before on or off the debate stage?

Nows not the time for finger pointing, nows the time to rally around Rand. He had a great performance and will probably get more supporters out of it. Let's not ostracize but come together for liberty